When will Iran attack our (US) fleet?

[phkrause]

Bohr-24 Elders

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLM6TM_3xeMZFqcoSJdpJM_G-ihNJoWGTm

[hch]

11 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

The problem is, ... when you have been wrong a number of times and then keep prophesying, it is dangerous to keep listening to you. Some in the Bible reported God as saying something, the hearer listened, and they died for listening. So, once someone fails in their prophesying, anyone else is more than justified to not listen to you again. One is not obligated to keep falling into the mud puddles of your failures as part of a growth process. If it was truly a prophesy from God, it will always be right. To prophesy in God's name and then be wrong is to make God out to be a liar!

Some will never understand, ever!

"Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." - Daniel 12:10

Generally, studying prophesy should be done in groups. When you come up with your own interpretations, you are then violating Peter's statement that no prophesy is of a private interpretation. From what I have read, your interpretations are derived solely thru your own personal studies. I would be concerned to give serious consideration.

When groups refuse to study, there comes a time to move on. No reason to allow delay when time is running out.

[hch]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 1:19 PM, The Wanderer said:

and we can KNOW this how? You have made several similar predictions about Iran in the past, and each one has utterly failed to happen. Any idea why?

Truly it is the same prediction. The war will come as prophesied, the timing is the Lord's.

The problem is that many who could get ready to meet the Lord will wait until it is too late.

[hch]

21 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Very thoughtful paper, in general.  I pretty much agree with it except the statement I quoted. Israel is still God's Chosen People.  He chose them; they did not choose him.  Rather than quote the whole chapter, read Isaiah 65, which basically says God chose Israel; and though they will pay for their sins, He will save a remnant.  Paul says in Romans 11 that all Israel will be saved (I think He's talking about all Israel that remains alive at the end who have put their faith in Jesus).  The rulership of the Kingdom will consist of Israelites - the Patriarchs of Israel and the Apostles.  I would not be surprised if the 24 elders were the patriarchs and apostles.

JoeMo,

God's promises to Israel are conditional. when He had the ten tribes go on the two  mountains and recite the blessings and the curses, God made that very clear.

Just as God promised to have someone in David's line on the throne forever, it ended when they ended it.

[stinsonmarri]

17 hours ago, phkrause said:

haha now you've put me on the spot ?  It might take me awhile, but when I find them I will post them!! I believe I've probably posted them before on one of the threads! I'll have to go through a lot of threads for sure!!

Hey my friend I never want to put you on the spot! ? What I will do is look for it online and if I find it (I'm pretty sure I will), then I provide it and make a comment on them as well. How's that? You know I got your back always!?

Blessings!

[phkrause]

3 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Hey my friend I never want to put you on the spot! ? What I will do is look for it online and if I find it (I'm pretty sure I will), then I provide it and make a comment on them as well. How's that? You know I got your back always!?

Blessings!

I did try looking for it, but no luck as of yet!! I don't think it's under the name of the three woes!! It might be on his web-site "AFTV?" or it might be with a group of lectures on other subjects, but I'm still looking anyway!!

[JoeMo]

10 hours ago, hch said:

JoeMo,

God's promises to Israel are conditional. when He had the ten tribes go on the two  mountains and recite the blessings and the curses, God made that very clear.

Just as God promised to have someone in David's line on the throne forever, it ended when they ended it.

God's promises to Israel in the wilderness were conditional.  God's promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were UNconditional.  One involves the unconditional promise of inheritance, while the other is the terms and conditions of a performance contract; and the consequences for non-compliance.  For God to revise the promise to Abraham would make God out to be a liar and a promise breaker - not a pretty picture.  Show me from Genesis where God's promises to the patriarchs was conditional.  From the nature of God's oath, it seems like He would rather die than disinherit Israel (in fact He did die rather than disinherit all of humanity).

Secondly, Davids throne might be temporarily vacant, but soon it will be occupied forever - by none other than Jesus Christ.

[JoeMo]

15 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

any chance you could be more specific and post a few texts to help me cipher your point better?

Check out Genesis 15. I won't post the whole chapter; just some of the critical parts:

"... 7  “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeansto give you this land to take possession of it.”

8 But Abram said, “Sovereign Lord, how can I know that I will gain possession of it?”

9 So the Lord said to him, “Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon.”

10 Abram brought all these to him, cut them in two and arranged the halves opposite each other; the birds, however, he did not cut in half. 11 Then birds of prey came down on the carcasses, but Abram drove them away. 12 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him... 17 When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. 18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi[e] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— 19 the land of the Kenites,Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

There are no conditions attached to this covenant.  Abram couldn't agree to anything - He was asleep!  The firepot passing between the animal parts was God.  The essence of the symbolism of the mutilated animals (IMHO) was God saying "May this happen to me if I fail to deliver on this promise".

[JoeMo]

That was for a guy like Abraham.  If it wasn't for Jesus, you'd need a lot more than that! ?

Seriously,  God needed those things; not Abraham.  Abe was asleep.  God was demonstrating just how serious He was about choosing Abraham's descendants as His chosen people.

God made a similar unconditional promise to Jacob in Gen. 28:

"13 The Lord, and he said: “I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. 14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring.15 I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.”

Notice that there are no conditions attached to this covenant, either.

[hch]

13 hours ago, JoeMo said:

God's promises to Israel in the wilderness were conditional.  God's promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were UNconditional.  One involves the unconditional promise of inheritance, while the other is the terms and conditions of a performance contract; and the consequences for non-compliance.  For God to revise the promise to Abraham would make God out to be a liar and a promise breaker - not a pretty picture.  Show me from Genesis where God's promises to the patriarchs was conditional.  From the nature of God's oath, it seems like He would rather die than disinherit Israel (in fact He did die rather than disinherit all of humanity).

Secondly, Davids throne might be temporarily vacant, but soon it will be occupied forever - by none other than Jesus Christ.

JoeMo,

I read your exchange regarding this aside, I apologize that one of your posts was responded to in jest. When ridicule rather than reasoning comes into our discussions, it can be hurtful. On the other hand, It is uplifting when we reason together and grow in grace together.

You may be correct that " God's promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were UNconditional." But we are not talking about  God's promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We are talking about God's promises to Israel. The covenant that established Israel as God's chosen people is found in Deuteronomy 27:9-29:1. IT is conditional. Here are some excerpts:

Quote

 

O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the LORD thy God... 

Cursed be he (occurs 11 times, then the conditional blessings)

And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all His commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.

Blessed shalt thou be (only occurs 4 times with 2 others... followed by CONDITIONS).

The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as He hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in His ways. And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee...

back to curses (conditional confirmation)

But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee...

The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken Me...

Moreover, all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded thee: And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed forever. Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things; Therefore, shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and He shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until He have destroyed thee...

If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD; Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance... because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God.

And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so, the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it....

These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which He made with them in Horeb.

 

It is a popular opinion that Israel is still God's promised people. But they are now in apostasy … Babylon. And the promises that were made to them are now for Christians. But with so many Christians being in apostasy, IMHO: God's promises are for the remnant of the remnant.

[hch]

13 minutes ago, hch said:

I read your exchange regarding this aside, I apologize that one of your posts was responded to in jest. When ridicule rather than reasoning comes into our discussions, it can be hurtful. On the other hand, It is uplifting when we reason together and grow in grace together.

I reread the comment that struck me as jesting about JoeMo's comment. it may have struck me differently than the poster intended it. My apology to him as well. Miss reading or reading something into some one's comments can set up barriers too.

We are at the time when God's people need to be more mindful of the feelings of others and join together to finish the work.

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, hch said:

It is a popular opinion that Israel is still God's promised people. But they are now in apostasy

Most, but not all.  Messianic Judaism is now accepted in Israel as a qualification for citizenship.  Israel is now again a nation as prophesied; but admittedly will still face the worst persecution in their history as a people; but a remnant will still be saved.  All this is in the Bible.  Read Romans 11 again before you declare that Christianity or Adventism has replaced Israel as God's chosen people.  That is heresy.  Jesus was not a "Christian" - He was a perfect Jew.  In fact, He was King of the Jews.  He called the Jews His brethren.  One day this Jew will rule the universe.

Also, it appears to me that only the Jews are recognized as "Israel" by most people.  There are 11 other tribes of Israel who will be members of the 144,000.  Just because Jews may be in apostasy says nothing about the other 11 tribes who have no clue as to their identity. Many of us members of spiritual Israel could very well be members of those lost tribes and not know it. 

[stinsonmarri]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

Notice that there are no conditions attached to this covenant, either.

Joe, YAHWEH did what HE promise, twice they were brought back to the land. All of the Ten tribes were not lost either.

And Hezekiah sent to all Israel and Judah, and he also wrote letters to Ephraim and Manasseh, to come to the house of YAHWEH in Jerusalem, to make a Passover to YAHWEH THE ELOHIYM of Israel. 2Ch 30:1

And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto YAHWEH their ELOHIYM, and laid them by heaps. 2Ch 31:6 HRB

Many of the 10 tribes lived in Judah they were brought back to the land some who wanted to return after the Babylonian captivity. You never hear at any time the people of Judah but always IsraEL from all the prophets to the books of Acts!

They were curse so they did have a condition:

And it shall be, if you will not heed THE VOICE of your ELOHIYM, to take heed to do all HIS Commandments and HIS Statutes which I am commanding you today, even all these curses shall come on you and overtake you: Deut 28:15 HRB

You read the curses from Deut 16-68 and they seal it even more when they themselves said "Let HIS BLOOD be on us and our children." But here is a prophetic prophecy that Noah gave to Shem that no one wants to deal with.

ELOHIYM shall *pâthâh Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. Gen 9:27 HRB *(Please read Gen 9:27, the Lexicon in Biblehub.com 6601b )

I am only dealing  that Japheth will dwell in the tents of Shem. From the Medes and Persians who today is call Iran, the Europeans have taken over the land of Shem. The Ashkenazi are from Gomer who is the father of the German tribes. The Ashkenazi follow the Biblical truth of Gen 9:27

"STRICTLY SPEAKING IT IS INCORRECT TO CALL AN ANCIENT ISRAELITE A ‘ JEW' OR TO CALL A CONTEMPORARY JEW AN ISRAELITE OR A HEBREW." (1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3)

The letter J was created in the Middle Ages and after the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD; the Pharisee who came out of the Babylonian exile started the Rabbinc sect. By the third century, they form the Rabbinic Yudaic religion we call Judaic today! Does that mean that the Jews are not nice people, they are but they join a Semitic religion that YAHWEH did not form. I am sorry but is the historical facts from the Bible and history. The Hebrews were curse and are gone! Just remember I do not make the facts I just provide them.

Blessings!

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. ACTS 11:26, KJV

Jesus was in heaven by this time.  Believers were called "The Way" before they were called Christians.   The sign above His cross said "Here is the King of the Jews". Christians were considered a sect of Judaism for a considerable time until Gentiles outnumbered them.

[JoeMo]

Marri,

I respectfully submit that every scripture verse you quoted came after the unconditional promises made in Genesis to Abraham, Isaac, and Israel.  For God to add conditions to those promises after the fact would be to cast doubt upon his honor, reliability, and unconditional love.

[JoeMo]

3 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

There ARE conditions to what we call the "unconditional promises."

Can you show me an example from scripture?  I don't see any conditions put on the promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As I said before, were God to welch on this promise would show Him to be a liar and unreliable.  Romans 3:2-4 says:

"First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.  What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar."

I side with Paul on this issue.

[JoeMo]

How did we get from Iran attacking the USA to a debate on replacement theology?  I suspect I had something to do with it several pages back.  Yup - it was me in my rant against the David Gates video.

[hch]

7 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I dont know that the entire nation is in apostasy. Some are, some are not??

I agree with that assessment.

As there is most likely a remnant in Judaism, there most likely is a remnant in Catholicism, and Apostate Protestantism, and Laodicea.

The messages to the 7 churches in Revelation point out the faults of the "churches" and commend those who are faithful.

 

[hch]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

How did we get from Iran attacking the USA to a debate on replacement theology?  I suspect I had something to do with it several pages back.  Yup - it was me in my rant against the David Gates video.

That is not a bad thing. When we discuss Bible prophecy, an important point in the discussion is: how are you reading it? 

The different ways of reading Scripture (or not reading it and just trusting what so and so said) have an impact on how we view it.

[hch]

1 minute ago, The Wanderer said:

Rev 18:4 tells us more when it says "Come out of her MY PEOPLE," which I have always taken to mean that God has "HIS PEOPLE" right now, in all denominations, all waiting for their place in history and to learn more truth. The question remains: are we willing to do THAT work using the methods of Christ alone?

good point. And of course when Luther (for example) came out of her, where was he to go? Today when we leave Babylon, we have many options as where to go...

But it is easier now to leave Babylon and go into another denomination that is Babylon. The only place to find rest is Jesus. And He will lead us to fellowship with other believers who can encourage us on the Christian pathway

[hch]

Mark Finley has a rebuttal to the Gates video I shared here.

This is the link:  

 

[JoeMo]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Jesus doesnt just give us a blank check to go out and do or believe whatever we feel like it just because we show great zeal in scripture-whipping everyone with a bunch of Bible texts

I never said He did.  I'm just stating what I believe and giving some scripture to back it up.  Feel free to believe whatever you wish.  I choose to believe that Israel - both the natural branches and those grafted in - have always been, continue to be, and will always be God's chosen people.

[stinsonmarri]

20 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Jesus was in heaven by this time.  Believers were called "The Way" before they were called Christians.   The sign above His cross said "Here is the King of the Jews". Christians were considered a sect of Judaism for a considerable time until Gentiles outnumbered them.

YAHSHUA was in Heaven Joe and you are right the were call "The WAY." But Christian was given to make fun of them.

Very few people realize that the term “Christian” was a very popular pagan label associated with many pagan cults long before the Messiah lived and died!  In fact, the followers of Mithras, Helios, and Osiris… all “Christians” or “Chrestos” in Greek:

·        Chrestos Mithras

·        Chrestos Helios

·        Chrestos Osiris

·        Krishna (is Sanskrit for Christ)

·        The question that begs to be asked is the following:

What would a group of Hebrews that call themselves The WAY and taught that the Torah pointed to YAHSHUA THE MESSIAH (which means PROPHET, PRIEST and KING), would accept a Greek term used by Pagans as a label for themselves?  They wouldn’t and they didn’t!

Christian. [N] [E]

The disciples, we are told, ( Acts 11:26 ) were first called Christians at Antioch on the Orontes, somewhere about A.D. 43. They were known to each other as, and were among themselves called, brethren, ( Acts 15:1 Acts 15:23 ; 1 Corinthians 7:12 ) disciples , ( Acts 9:26 ; 11:29 ) believers , ( Acts 5:14 ) saints , ( Romans 8:27 ; 15:25 ) The name "Christian," which, in the only other cases where it appears in the New Testament, ( Acts 26:28 ; 1 Peter 4:16 ) is used contemptuously, could not have been applied by the early disciples to themselves, but was imposed upon them by the Gentile world. There is no reason to suppose that the name "Christian" of itself was intended as a term of scurrility or abuse, though it would naturally be used with contempt. Smith's Bible Dictionary – Christian

 Of Pagan Origin:

 The name, then, did not originate with the Christians themselves. Nor would the Jews have applied it to the followers of Jesus, whose claim to be the Christ they opposed so passionately. They spoke of the Christians as "the sect of the Nazarenes" (Acts 24:5); perhaps also as "Galileans," a term which the emperor Julian attempted later vainly to revive. The word must have been coined by the heathen population of Antioch, as the church emerged from the synagogue, and a Christianity predominantly Gentile took its place among the religions of the world. International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Now again ones must make a choice; I believe like EGW believe that just before YAHSHUA comes all truth will be reveal. Those who do believe in the visions of EGW who said words have been change in the Bible. EW p. 220, 221 It will be difficult for the majority to accept and only a few will stand up for truth. Where will you stand? We must choose who will we serve tradition or truth? 

Happy Sabbath!

[phkrause]

On 11/14/2018 at 12:27 PM, stinsonmarri said:

No I haven't can you please show me how I can see each one online? I would love to see what they all say! Thanks in advance! 

Blessings!

 

On 11/14/2018 at 9:59 PM, phkrause said:

haha now you've put me on the spot ?  It might take me awhile, but when I find them I will post them!! I believe I've probably posted them before on one of the threads! I'll have to go through a lot of threads for sure!!

 

On 11/15/2018 at 3:46 PM, stinsonmarri said:

Hey my friend I never want to put you on the spot! ? What I will do is look for it online and if I find it (I'm pretty sure I will), then I provide it and make a comment on them as well. How's that? You know I got your back always!? 

Blessings!

 

On 11/15/2018 at 6:57 PM, phkrause said:

I did try looking for it, but no luck as of yet!! I don't think it's under the name of the three woes!! It might be on his web-site "AFTV?" or it might be with a group of lectures on other subjects, but I'm still looking anyway!!

OK, so I didn't find them here, and really didn't find the ones I originally had viewed, but find on AFTV web-site under a different title than I recalled and so I went onto you-tube and found them and am posting them! The first two lead up to the 3rd part where he does delve into the woes, the last 3 trumpets!!

01 - Islam, Christianity and Prophecy …. Doug Batchelor     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FCtv9gt7Fs

02 - Islam, Christianity and Prophecy …. Doug Batchelor    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0FeG3mU12E

03 - Islam, Christianity and Prophecy …. Doug Batchelor     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgrB3wRF6Mo

I believe Pr Doug Batchelor does a pretty good job! Like I mentioned the first two are a build up to the 3rd one! I enjoyed all of them. I re-watched all of them last night and today.

[8thdaypriest]

13 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I never said He did.  I'm just stating what I believe and giving some scripture to back it up.  Feel free to believe whatever you wish.  I choose to believe that Israel - both the natural branches and those grafted in - have always been, continue to be, and will always be God's chosen people.

The "natural branches" who refused to believe and obey, were "broken off".   Yes - they can be "grafted in again" - but only IF they repent.   While broken off - they are NOT part of "Israel" and cannot claim the promises.  The promise is realized only through "the Seed".   We "inherit" only if we are "in Him".  THAT FACT - makes the promise CONDITIONAL for human descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 

The "promise" was a prophecy.  "To your Seed, I will give this land."  Jesus Christ will "inherit all things".  Those "in Him" will inherit with Him. 

Revelation 21:7 "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son."

Speaking of Esau:    Hebrews 12:17 "For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears."