hch Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 hours ago, B/W Photodude said: So many arguments here on Adventistan would be settled if people would study their Sabbath school lessons! ... I agree with these quotes of Sister Whites that there are no more events in Scripture that will tied to a specific time or date. ... So, where do we go from here. hch seems to be very opposed to what Sister White has written. So, unless hch wants to declare himself as a greater prophet than Sister White, he should repent immediately! Photodude We go back to your studies of course. Ellen White only uses the term definite time in reference to "the definite time of Christ's Second Advent" NOT prophecies specifying time that is not related to Christ's Advent. furthermore after stating that the 42 months of Revelation 13:5 were fulfilled from 538 to 1798, Ellen white places the 42 months in the future, which is a time prophecy that is to be fulfilled after 1844. Do your homework before teaching that Ellen White taught what she did not teach. That would have been good advice for the author of the quarterly and the editors that misrepresented Ellen White's comments before they propagated their traditional misunderstanding. Quote The world placed all time proclamation on the same level... Our position has been one of waiting and watching, with no time proclamation to intervene between the close of the prophetic periods in 1844 and the time of the Lord’s coming. We do not know the day nor the hour, or when the definite time is, and yet the prophetic reckoning shows us that Christ is at the door. [16MR 178.2] Ellen also said that Revelation's teachings are definite THAT MUST INCLUDE ITS TIMES. Quote The Revelation is a sealed book, but it is also an open book, recording marvelous events that are to take place in the last days of this earth’s history. Its teachings are definite, not mystical and unintelligible, and God would have us understand it. [ ST, January 11, 1899 par. 5 ] The following quote from EGW contradicts your reading of her clear statement that you and so many others take out of it's context. Quote In the last days...will take place the final fulfillment of the Revelator’s prophecy. [Revelation 13:4-18, quoted.] 19MR 282.1 Ellen White wrote out in long hand Revelation 13:5 " And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months. " She would not have written out that specific text if she had not wanted it to be in the context that she set it in... it is a time prophecy after 1844. Quote The reference you asked about {In the last days...will take place the final fulfillment of the Revelator’s prophecy. [Revelation 13:4-18, quoted.]} is correct. When you see an item like this in the Manuscript Releases, enclosed in square brackets, it means that in Ellen White’s material, she quoted the named passage, but for economy of space, we will not quote it here, but merely give the reference so that the reader can look it up and read it, if desired. So, it does indeed refer to these verses in Revelation 13, and this is the prophecy that she mentioned just before the reference. …I confirmed it by going to the manuscript, where the verses were written out. [ William Fagal, Associate Director, Ellen G. White Estate, 12501 Old Columbia Pike, Silver Spring, MD 20904-6600 U.S.A. ] You don't want to believe Ellen white? Would you rather believe those who twist her to say something that she did not say because they take her out of context and make her a pretext? Why? She said the same thing again! there is no doubt as to her meaning! Quote “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.” Revelation 13:4-10. This entire chapter is a revelation of what will surely take place. [ 7BC 979.10 ] There is more that could be said about what Ellen White actually said and how she is being misrepresented by so many who claim that their teachings align with her. I won't go into that now, it is in my book. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I respectfully submit that we can't limit our views about the end times strictly by what EGW says (or what we think she said). Just like most of us, her theology evolved over the years. I respectfully submit her views on the Trinity as an example. (Not trying to start a discussion on the trinity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 10 hours ago, JoeMo said: I respectfully submit that we can't limit our views about the end times strictly by what EGW says (or what we think she said). Just like most of us, her theology evolved over the years. I respectfully submit her views on the Trinity as an example. (Not trying to start a discussion on the trinity). I have read a number of authors who have written regarding the theology of the end times. Their stories are different from Ellen White, but they do not contradict her writings. It just adds understanding and can be referenced back to the Bible and to her writings. One of the problems you (generic) have is you can either accept that she received special instruction through visions and dreams or she is not true. While it is true that some of her views seem to have changed, I suspect that sometimes they are said to have changed by those who wish to discredit her. Very early on in her writings (1850s) she was speaking of the three members of the Godhead. The Holy Spirit was not a later "invention". In many ways, her ministry has come under attack in order to "make of none effect" what she wrote. One other point is that the Christian church had a long way to go to clarify doctrines as Protestant movement came out of the medieval church. Much had to be discarded and redeveloped. Some things did not get clarified until even after the formation of the Seventh-day Adventist church. I note sometimes that with many prophets in the Bible, their testimony is so short and we call them minor prophets. But really? That is the only thing they ever had to say for God? I suspect that many of them had far more writings and testimony than what made it into the Bible. Some of the famous prophets of the Bible did not get any of their writings into the scripture record (Iddo). Are they then not important? Unfortunately, some who wish to discredit Ellen White are also just tripping over the mistakes of her "supporters." She made it very clear that she was not to replace the Bible and even noted that if people would study their Bibles more, much of what she had to write would have been unnecessary. JoeMo and phkrause 2 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 8 hours ago, B/W Photodude said: you can either accept that she received special instruction through visions and dreams or she is not true. Personally speaking, I understand and appreciate most of what I have read by EGW; especially The Controversy Series; and of those, my favorites are Desire of Ages and Acts of the Apostles. I also love Early Writings. I believe her visions were genuine; I just have doubts about her interpretations of some of those dreams. I also doubt the applicability of some of her testimonies to private individuals applying to the church at large - but that has to do more with the White Estate publishing them; not EGW. I also question some things like 1844, the day for a year principle, and the papacy being THE main player in end-time prophecy. I don't totally dismiss them, I just question them - they are not an integral part of my personal theology, where everything I read in scripture is. I don't fault her for them; some of them were mainstream Protestant thought in the late 19th century. I even remember as a kid back in the late 1950's where some kids in the neighborhood weren't allowed to play with us cuz we were Catholic. I also remember how upset my family was when I was dating Protestant girls. The world has changed a lot in the past 50 - 150 years. Christians are persecuted more heavily; and another religion is a much larger threat to world order and personal freedoms than the church EGW named. I don't thoroughly dismiss EGW - most of her writings have been a blessing to me. A minority of her writings - not so much. But throwing all of her stuff out the window is equivalent to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. People who do so miss a great blessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 8 hours ago, B/W Photodude said: Unfortunately, some who wish to discredit Ellen White are also just tripping over the mistakes of her "supporters." She made it very clear that she was not to replace the Bible and even noted that if people would study their Bibles more, much of what she had to write would have been unnecessary. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 another omen? https://www.ibtimes.com/risk-war-mounting-iran-blames-us-israel-2765192 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 On 2/17/2019 at 6:52 PM, JoeMo said: Personally speaking, I understand and appreciate most of what I have read by EGW; especially The Controversy Series; and of those, my favorites are Desire of Ages and Acts of the Apostles. I also love Early Writings. I believe her visions were genuine; I just have doubts about her interpretations of some of those dreams. I also doubt the applicability of some of her testimonies to private individuals applying to the church at large - but that has to do more with the White Estate publishing them; Being very deep into the first of the Testimonies volumes, I am seeing a trend in them different than other writings such as the "Conflict" series. Obviously, the supreme writing is the Bible and it is like the "constitution" for all writings to come. Similarly, in the Jewish faith you have the Torah, The Writings, and the Prophets - "Tanakh is an acronym of the first Hebrew letter of each of the Masoretic Text's three traditional subdivisions: Torah ("Teaching", also known as the Five Books of Moses), Nevi'im ("Prophets") and Ketuvim ("Writings")—hence TaNaKh." (Wikipedia) We may know the Tanakh better as the Old Testament. Then You have the Mishnah and the Talmud. So, for SDAs we have the writings of Ellen White and many other theologians. However, like the Talmud following Torah, the writings of Ellen White and others must agree with the Bible. As noted in Isaiah, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20 I find the conflict series is very illuminating on what the Bible says. Every chapter expands on lessons on that part of the Bible story. Similarly, Christ Objects Lessons expands on the teachings and meanings of the parables of Jesus. Thoughts from the Mount of Blessings goes into many other statements Jesus made. The Testimonies are very different. They seem to be the applied teachings of the Bible to very current situations in the work of the church in this age. Yes, I know it was 150 years give or take a couple of decades, but the dynamics of the behavior of the members of the church are little different from today. They had their heresies. We have ours. They had their wonderings after the world and their modern day idols. We have ours. Most any thing she wrote in the Testimonies that I have read are still relevant to today. So, I am still looking for those writings of Ellen White that are no longer of any value to us today and can be discarded. JoeMo 1 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, The Wanderer said: I think it would at least be safe to say that the 9 volume testimonies can be equated to a Bible Commentary. Different values on same are held by various people for many reasons. As long as they are not equated with canonized Scripture, I dont see any problem with them at all. They have enlightened me on many different points made in Scripture. When you get to volume 9, you will see it is quite thin, compared to volume 1, or volume 5. The times each one reflect, I think, may have had something to do with how many pages. Thanks for the info. No, I do not place EGW on a level with Scripture. However, given that much of her writings came thru vision, they would seem to belong to a level above gifted theologians examinations of Scripture and even her writings. I also read many others writers and find them very good also. So, I am not just an EGW student and I do not believe she would want anyone to be that either. I know some serious Bible students do not like to hear the messages she passes on to us. And they won't read anyone else either. But they are more than willing for you to sit and listen them them go on and on about their opinions of what Scripture is saying (and sometimes they are not wrong). But as I have said before, books from gifted writers are one way for them to have a part in conversation even after they have gone to their rest. If one can't read or even listen to anyone else, and only privately study the Bible, one could end up in some strange places with strange ideas. Group study seems to have been recommended even in Scripture. Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 "Iran regularly holds maneuvers in the strait." The mundane. No big deal. Who's watching? Should we be watching? https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/02/21/world/middleeast/ap-ml-iran-navy-drill.html Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 22, 2019 Members Share Posted February 22, 2019 Well Jesus tells us to be watching and always be ready!! hch 1 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 On February 17, 2019 at 6:52 PM, JoeMo said: … I just have doubts about her interpretations of some of those dreams. I also doubt the applicability of some of her testimonies to private individuals applying to the church at large … In the introduction to volume 2, Ellen White wrote, "But I had many personal testimonies on hand, some of which are given in the following pages. And I know of no better way to present my views of general dangers and errors, and the duty of all who love God and keep His commandments, than by giving these testimonies. Perhaps there is no more direct and forcible way of presenting what the Lord has shown me." After having read a number of these letters to individuals, I agree with her comment. Sometimes we like to think we are so individually unique that no one else's experience is the same as ours. Reality is, the more intensely private we thinks some things are, the more commonly shared they are. Superficial traits are really what could be more uncommon. So, a message to one person can be very valuable to many other individuals. I find these testimonies to be very direct to me in some cases. So, some will find value and some won't in the letters to individuals. C'est la vie! phkrause 1 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 11:39 PM, JoeMo said: I respectfully submit that we can't limit our views about the end times strictly by what EGW says (or what we think she said). Just like most of us, her theology evolved over the years. I respectfully submit her views on the Trinity as an example. (Not trying to start a discussion on the trinity). If we study the Bible first and supplement that study with Ellen White's writings, we will do well. phkrause 1 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 On 2/12/2019 at 8:25 AM, hch said: When the war with Iran and the US comes, President Trump is replaced by Michael, and the Time of Trouble comes full force in rapid pace, it may be too late for you to undo the influence that you have had on others. Now is the time to study to show ourselves approved of God. As I continue to study, This scenario is also possible: President Trump is replaced by Michael, the war with Iran and the US comes, and the Time of Trouble comes full force in rapid pace, it may be too late for you to undo the influence that you have had on others. Quote But what is the “image to the beast”? and how is it to be formed? The image is made by the two-horned beast, and is an image to the first beast. It is also called an image of the beast. Then to learn what the image is like, and how it is to be formed, we must study the characteristics of the beast itself, —the papacy. When the early church became corrupted by departing from the simplicity of the gospel, and accepting heathen rites and customs, she lost the Spirit and power of God; and in order to control the consciences of the people she sought the support of the secular power. The result was the papacy, a church that controlled the power of the State, and employed it to further her own ends, especially for the punishment of “heresy.” In order for the United States to form an image of the beast, the religious power must so control the civil government that the authority of the State will also be employed by the church to accomplish her own ends. {GC88 443.2} Pope Benedict XVI left office early and Pope Francis I was installed as his replacement. President Trump leaves office early (before 2020? or 2024?) The leader of the image beast leaves office early to be replaced by Michael. Quote But Satan was not idle. He now attempted what he has attempted in every other reformatory movement,—to deceive and destroy the people by palming off upon them a counterfeit in place of the true work. As there were false christs in the first century of the Christian church, so there arose false prophets in the sixteenth century. {GC88 186.1} An apostate Protestant Prince of America's Covenant palming himself off as a savior of humanity, who stands for his people. Then he turns against the constitution (covenant) and when its restraints are removed, he turns against God's Covenant. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, hch said: If we study the Bible first and supplement that study with Ellen White's writings, we will do well. I agree up to a point; but I also find it necessary to look at commentaries and studies beyond EGW as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, JoeMo said: I agree up to a point; but I also find it necessary to look at commentaries and studies beyond EGW as well. Then you should find my commentary helpful Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, hch said: Then you should find my commentary helpful If your commentary expands upon what you have posted here on AS, I will pass for now. No offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, JoeMo said: If your commentary expands upon what you have posted here on AS, I will pass for now. No offense. No offence taken. Those who are ahead of their times often have to wait for time to catch up to them. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 minute ago, hch said: Those who are ahead of their times often have to wait for time to catch up to them. And sometimes those who think they are ahead of their times are mistaken. My particular take is that Islam will lead the rush into the end of time; but I am obviously "ahead of my time" like you are given the response I have received. One or both of us is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, JoeMo said: And sometimes those who think they are ahead of their times are mistaken. My particular take is that Islam will lead the rush into the end of time; but I am obviously "ahead of my time" like you are given the response I have received. One or both of us is wrong. It is possible that both of us are wrong. Unlikely, but possible. When an individual trusts in the Lord and follows where the Lord leads, they will be right. Baalim was right to follow the LORD, but when he advised the king of Moab to seduce God's people to sin in order to destroy them, he was dead wrong. He used his knowledge to serve his own ends rather than to use it to help people to overcome sin and live for God. The intent of his heart was not Godward, but selfish. My anagram of SIN is: Self first...I second...and Nobody else but me In my personal studies, I have experienced growth in Christ. That is not something that others cannot evaluate to the depth of my soul. Yes by your fruits you shall know...love, joy, peace, etc., but when the kingdom comes the other fruits will be seen. In the meantime, live what you believe and teach what you know. And Grow in Jesus. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 hours ago, hch said: Yes by your fruits you shall know...love, joy, peace, etc., but when the kingdom comes the other fruits will be seen. In the meantime, live what you believe and teach what you know. And Grow in Jesus. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 I found a prophetic date while studying Woman's Ordination. Don't know if it relates to the #IranUSwar or not It is next Monday. My comment about WO ends with the math that discovered 4 March 2019 Quote I appreciate the fact that this conversation has led me to study a little more deeper. It is incredible what God puts in His word for those who take the time to pray and study it. We are not on the same page, probably not even in the same book. The issue is not the relationship of husbands to wives or visa versa. The point is that before Jesus came: The male priesthood foreshadowed His role in the salvation of humanity. After Jesus fulfilled the law, the necessity of an ordained man as the minister was no longer binding. This principle is the same as in the ancient circumcision debate and the reason that we no longer sacrifice lambs: Jesus fulfilled the law. Since Christ has made us kings and priests unto God our Father, the role of kings and priests is applicable to all believers unless only men are to be saved, which is not the case. The believers will be kings and priests in heaven. Christ prayed "Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven." But man (the GC in session) has overwhelmingly voted to disregard God's will that all believers in Christ are called kings and priests. That vote was in rebellion against what Christ has established and what God has ordained. It is an abomination that will desolate those who remain in rebellion against the will of God. My current understanding as of Bible study last night and this morning: The vote against WO was official Wednesday, 8 July 2015, when God's people set up an abomination in our midst. "From the time that the continual [will of God] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up [8 July], there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." That allotted time ended on 18 January 2019 at which time we were at the 9th day in the 10 days of prayer. The text that day: "For I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day" (2 TIMOTHY 1:12). The promise that follows is: " Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days." As I read it the blessing will come on 4 March 2019. That is a few days away... The wise will understand according to the promise and I'm praying for wisdom and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted March 5, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 5, 2019 March 4, 2019: A few hours left. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 8 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said: March 4, 2019: A few hours left. Now that it is past, it was a tremendous blessing to me. The windows of Heaven opened in several unexpected ways. Now I will have to look to see what was happening behind the scenes. (if that was the right event to begin the 1335 days) Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted March 5, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 5, 2019 Exactly what expected from you. Well, I await your next false prediction. It will surely come. That is as certain as it is that the sun will set today. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Sometimes, modern day prophecy watchers delve so deeply that they see things that aren't really there. phkrause and B/W Photodude 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.