La Sierra University Church Now Has a Sabbath School For Homosexuals

[B/W Photodude]

It is often claimed that women being ordained to the ministry will be followed up by push for LGBT+ acceptance. Then you see it happening right before your very eyes!

La Sierra University Church Now Has a Sabbath School For Homosexuals

Called the ‘Kinship Sabbath School’, La Sierra University Church hosts a class for LGBT and allies.  It is billed as a “safe and affirming space for fellowship, Bible study and spiritual growth.”

No word yet on whether they have a special class for thieves, idolaters or extortioners and their allies (1 Cor 6:9-10). One person is wondering when a class for pedophiles will happen! Hey! their feelings matter too.

http://www.fulcrum7.com/news/2019/4/10/la-sierra-university-church-has-a-sabbath-school-for-homosexuals

Kinship Sabbath School
Room 30 (hallway behind sanctuary)
For LGBT+ and Allies. A safe and affirming space for fellowship, Bible study, and spiritual growth.
https://lasierra.church/bible-study/

One reader's comment:
Also, I'm sure it's "just a coincidence" that the lead pastor is a woman. Indeed, the lead pastor is a woman!
https://lasierra.church/pastoral-staff/

Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. Isaiah 1:9-10

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. Isaiah 3:12

So, again, I sit here watching this all unfold in more wicked ways than I ever imagined when I was much younger. Funny thing is, it is just so much like the Old Testament stories of the kings of Israel and Judah falling in and out of favor with God. And the nations around them marveled at their wickedness. Just read about one king who I thought followed God, but went out to war with a neighboring king. He then brought back their idols and bowed down to them!

[B/W Photodude]

1 minute ago, The Wanderer said:

OK Lets start by asking the following question: "Have you ever told a lie in the past year?"

That is the usual beginning of a Baptist trying to get someone to convert!

[B/W Photodude]

I am still sorting thru the full indepth meaning of honesty is. But an outright knowledgeable verbal statement of mistruth, probably no. But if you include stating that everything is fine as to not unload a bunch of stuff on someone who just asks a social question and not expecting a genuine answer, then yes. I really hate stating falsehoods, plus, I am just not good at it!

[B/W Photodude]

1 minute ago, The Wanderer said:

white lies are still lies. Therefore, they shouldnt have sabbath school classes for you either. Liars will NOT be welcome in heaven.

But no one in my Sabbath school class "affirms" lying of any color. Apparently the part of "affirming" LGBT+ behavior got lost. I have no doubt that the ultimate end of this whole movement will be to make it as acceptable to engage in that practice as normal hetero behavior. That is also why the sentence No word yet on whether they have a special class for thieves, idolaters or extortioners and their allies (1 Cor 6:9-10). was included. There wan't really enough space to list all the "affirming" Sabbath school classes that could be held to soothe the hurt feelings of all the different kinds of evil doings there are.

The other thing I have stated before is that no one locks the doors and prevents LGBT+ souls from entering. But it is unreasonable to be "affirmed" in your sins. That is also a lie of a great magnitude to leave someone to believe they can do wrong and still be just alright with God. Their blood will be on your hands.

[Gustave]

It's just a way for the homosexuals to "get acquainted" with one another for the "fun" that happens later.

This is no different than a "gay bar", or a "gay cruise", a "gay dating website", etc. By  offering it THIS WAY the leadership can "nudge" peoples view of homosexuality being more natural and wholesome ( like what's wrong with a  "Spanish Sabbath School Class" ). 

 

[Gustave]

56 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Well, I would disagree with that. I suppose it does happen, but if so, it doesnt mean thats the way it would be in every, or even in most cases. My point here is that from my current understanding of the way our church teaches on the general subject of how to conduct our "sabbath school classes"  we should be doing things in a way that does reach out to specific groups and cultures. If someone has the heart and the aptitude to work with a certain group, what would be a biblical reason for refusing to minister to that group? All that does is to set the stage for stigma, disparagement, etc. I think we could all agree that Jesus made a special point of ministering to such, even ate with them. In fact, Jesus preferred their company, as evidenced by who He spent time with and why. I am reminded of the time when I was once observed just talking to an "outlaw" group who had assembled in the parking lot of one of our churches. I was immediately accused of "being one of them;" and it took many months for me to convince them that I wasnt. I was just asking them if they wanted to join our Sabbath school class that morning. How on earth do we stigmatize a people group, plus "minister" to them in the same breath? Why dont we do the same for liars and adulterers?

 

I could have worded what I said better.

I'm all about reaching out to different cultures however can we categorize homosexuality as a "culture"? I have a difficult time viewing bestiality "as a culture". Now, I'm not  drawing a moral equivalence between homosexuality and bestiality in a secular or social context - I'm attempting to do it in a religious context. 

I'll be the first one to admit that in the end it's very possible that I may not get past the Particular Judgement and a gay person could so I'm not saying that being gay disqualifies someone from salvation at all. All I'm saying is that both the Old & New Covenant speak ill of homosexuality 

"If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them". Leviticus 20, 13

"For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.  And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error". Romans 1, 26-27

"Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God". 1 Corinthians 6, 9-10

How would you feel if the Church started offering a Sabbath School for extortioners, drunkards, thieves. I would be ALL FOR reaching out to everyone, regardless of what they struggle with. All I'm saying is that there has been a TREND to justify behavior condemned by Scripture and the Historic understanding of the Christian Church. 

There are now several churches that started out doing stuff like this and now they have openly gay Pastors who proudly bugger their partners while preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus. We have several "queer churches" here in the Seattle area and from what I gather there isn't any effort whatsoever to refrain from homosexual acts because it's been normalized to the degree anyone who questions it is accused of being a bigot or homophobe. This is happening all around us and it's gaining momentum. 

 

[JoeMo]

17 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

La Sierra University Church Now Has a Sabbath School For Homosexuals

I actually have no problem with this.  LGBTQ+ people need Jesus as well.  There are many gays who consider themselves Christians; and who have suffered great discrimination from straight people and much personal shame for their "deviate" behavior.  If a gay person can't turn to Jesus for help, who can they turn to?

Every church has a SS class and worship service for liars, lusters, and gossips.  Many in this demographic are even elders and pastors.  I would even venture to say a majority of Christians fit into this category.  Who can they turn to but Jesus for forgiveness?  I would propose that it is easier for people to stop these sins than it is for a truly gay person to become straight.

I'm not implying that gays should be pastors, elders, or Conference Presidents; or that our churches should sanction gay marriage.  But we should welcome anyone seeking a relationship with Christ; and let the HS do the rest.

[JoeMo]

In Romans 1:28-32, Paul lists 20 other sins besides homosexuality that will keep one out of the Kingdom.  I would venture to say that most (if not all) of us have had problems with one or more sins on this list.  If everyone who had willfully committed any of these sins were excluded from fellowship, our churches would be pretty empty.

"Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

So let's not put all of our focus on LGBTQ+.

[Gregory Matthews]

FYI,  there are many SDA congregations in the U.S. that allow any group that wants to have a Sabbath School Class, to have such.  In that process, that class is typically allowed to study whatever they want to study, which  often is not the official lesson.

I do not believe that we should think that the LSU class is dedicated to promoting the idea that the practice of homosexuality is acceptable in Christian life.  Rather, it is probably simply a class where  people who deal with the issue of homosexuality may associate in a Bible study environment.

NOTE:  I wonder how many people commenting in this thread have actually attended that class?  Yes, I have not.

[B/W Photodude]

The elder in my church has a favorite illustration. He says, "the devil will dance you all around the cross, but you will never see Jesus." I tend to think that about many of the threads here. Many discussions will wander all over the place except to seriously consider what the OP was even about!

I get it that there is many other sins that people struggle with. But AGAIN, there are no Sabbath school classes for those who engage in such sins as extortion, lying, coveting to go to to be affirmed! The point of the relationship of LGBT+ issues and WO was part of the OP, but let's dance around and not see that!

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

I get it that there is many other sins that people struggle with. But AGAIN, there are no Sabbath school classes for those who engage in such sins as extortion, lying, coveting to go to to be affirmed!

Do you know for a fact that this SS affirms homosexuality; or is it a class for people who are struggling with it?  Have you "checked it out", or are you just spouting what you have read?  I know several Christians who are attracted to the same gender who are celibate - they do not participate in homosexual activity.  They would love to attend a "normal" church, but are afraid they would be rejected. I know two who have left Adventism cuz they were rejected at every SDA Church they attended (sad). They are still Christian, but no longer Adventists.  Again, sad.

[Gustave]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I had to wait for a bit to settle myself down some before attempting to give this the answer it deserves. Now I value your participation on this forum, and even feel that we have become friends, however, this type of comment hits me as very  discriminatory and even homophobic.  "get aquainted" and "fun that comes later" is deliberate disparagement that could not be justified by scripture, and the ways that scripture describe how Christians are to minister to the community at large. Banal stigma and affronted mentioning of an entire group of people based on our supposed ideas of their motives in coming to church dont fit with how Jesus did His ministry to the very people we are saying should not be "affirmed" if they have the courage to look past all of our baloney and come in the church doors. Why do we expect the church to treat us any better, as if our sin is better than their's?

An aside: There are tons of heterosexuals who come to church to "get acquainted" for "the fun" that comes later. Some of the true tales I could tell there, cannot be posted on the forum. Its time for us to put away our "gospel whips" and try a little of the "water of life."

God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Psalms 53:2-3)

I feel the same way about you. 

I'm looking at this from the perspective that I'm not any better than a gay individual. I'm only saying that offering a separate class for  individuals who have trouble with a particular sin mitigates against calling it out for what it is. These gay folks are no different than you or me, they're human beings with the same fears, hopes and troubles everyone has so why would they need to be sequestered off into a special or "different" camp when it comes time for Sunday School? 

In my understanding being gay ISN'T a sin at all - it's no different than a heterosexual person who lusts after a member of the opposite sex. I understand that there still is a stigma of being gay - I get that but at the end of the day when folks realize we are all in as much danger of hell for my our sins as a gay person is for theirs we can sit together and try to encourage each other to resist our impulses for whatever sin it is that we struggle against. This is what I'm saying. 

 

 

[B/W Photodude]

On 4/14/2019 at 6:32 PM, B/W Photodude said:

Kinship Sabbath School
Room 30 (hallway behind sanctuary)
For LGBT+ and Allies. A safe and affirming space for fellowship, Bible study, and spiritual growth.

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

there is nothing in this link that proves "homosexuality" is being "affirmed." It does appear that PEOPLE are being affirmed.

OK, here is a clue! Look at the name of the SS - Kinship Sabbath School. Couldn't be that they have anything to sdakinship? You can go to their website <  sdakinship.org  > and see if you can find anything that suggests that they do not "affirm" homosexuality. In fact, you will find that they make a great effort to twist the Scriptures to make it appear that it is acceptable. They also try to make it appear that Ellen White was accepting of it or at least did not disapprove. There is nothing there to suggest that if you are SSA you should remain celibate. In fact, just the opposite. They even have a section for bisexuals. Now, consider if you are attracted to both sexes, then to accomplish that you have to be having multiple partners which suggests fornication. So, thank-you , but I will stick by my earlier opinion that this "sabbath school" is all about trying to support same sex attraction and behavior in the Seventh-day Adventist church. And I also still see the connection between the WO and the LGBT+ issues.

[B/W Photodude]

?? I said over and over and over again ... ??

It seems this always gets back to feelings somehow, that because someone is emotionally bound up in some belief about how they are that you can change the Bible ( Forgot! Kinship says that the Bible doesn't say that!). So, if you are not going to give in to it, you must suffer. Well, well. Everyone must suffer for some desires of the flesh. it is our life in this world until we are remade in the image of Jesus. This is part of that picking up your cross and following Him. Paul talks on similar themes a lot. He says we are scarcely saved. Jesus suffered everyday of His life on earth denying the temptations of the flesh and the temptations of Satan. But He did it. We do not know what His private temptations were, but we do know that He knows all of our temptations.

The good news is, by Jesus abiding in us, our characters, desires, thoughts, feelings, motives become like His. We live His life. Eventually, no matter what our "cross to bear" is, we become like Jesus. There is a statement in Christ Object Lessons to the effect that if we surrender our wills to Him, He will give our wills back to us perfect. To not believe that Jesus can heal us of all imperfections is to be in unbelief. There is also a statement in the NT that unbelievers will go to destruction. Just sayin'. Did read all of this in the Scriptures and SOP.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

In SDA congregations today establish a Sabbath School class based upon a group of people  that want to  get together as a group in group study and not upon isolating that group from the rest of the congregation.

In my experience with such, sometimes the class has been established on the basis of a person who wanted to be the leader in a class, and intended to enlist people to attend.  In such cases, I have seen such classes fail due to the  fact   that there a group of people did not exist who   wanted such a class.

However, which such a group existed, I have seen that class work out well.

 

[Gustave]

I just followed the link and noted the meaning of the words. 

"For LGBT+ & Allies. A safe and affirming space...…."

Allies = "formally cooperating with another for a military or other purpose"

Synonyms = Amalgamate,  merge, fuse

EVERY member of a Church should care and show concern for the souls of every LGBT+ individual. The add for the class would make one believe that the members outside that class weren't safe or allies for the LGBT+ folks attending it. 

We are all in this soup together and separating folks like this seems a lot like identity politics to me. Almost like offering a class for "Blacks and allies" or "Asians and allies" where it's "safe". Safe from what? 

 

[Bravus]

Gustave, if you cannot see that you are the very kind of person who makes a safe space necessary, you really need to back out of the whole discussion.

You are seeking to invalidate people's very lives, and then questioning why they feel a need for a place to worship where those attacks will not occur?

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Gustave, I hae seen Sabbath School classes for people of cultural and racial groups.

Such people as immigrants may have unique adjustments to make living in our society.  In addition, their cultural/racial background may he given the some variations in the nature of "Church" to include Sabbath School classes. It is O.K. for them to meet together in   a common study and worship.

[Gregory Matthews]

Gustave:  I do not believe you should "back out of the conversation."  You have said that you have a "thick skin."   Well, you can expect to receive vigorous, frank responses to your posts.  If you are willing to engage on that level, continue on.  You might even receive new insights.  :)

 

[Gustave]

3 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Gustave:  I do not believe you should "back out of the conversation."  You have said that you have a "thick skin."   Well, you can expect to receive vigorous, frank responses to your posts.  If you are willing to engage on that level, continue on.  You might even receive new insights. 

 

I guess I'm used to seeing all kinds of people when I got to Church, everyone is lumped up together - there are no separate classes. 

 

 

[Gustave]

3 hours ago, Bravus said:

Gustave, if you cannot see that you are the very kind of person who makes a safe space necessary, you really need to back out of the whole discussion.

You are seeking to invalidate people's very lives, and then questioning why they feel a need for a place to worship where those attacks will not occur?

 

No invalidation about LGBT from me, I work with many of these folks and count them as my friends. I was asked a couple years ago by a person who go's to a "gay church" here in Seattle that has a gay Pastor (who lives with another man) and this person asked me what I thought about it. 

My answer was it [ that type of worship service ] was irrelevant and she would be in the same place I would be if we BOTH didn't change our ways [ as in Hell ].  This may come as a shock to people who've been accustomed to protesting whatever it is they don't like about the historic Christian Faith until they Shake-N-Bake a church that's to their liking but it is what it is. 

I have no problem being friends with, eating with, helping LGBT folks with anything I can but the last thing I would help them do is make them feel warm and fuzzy over continuing in that lifestyle. 

Several years ago there was a big "ranch" in Washington State that had horses, dogs and about every other animal known to man that was used by wealthy kinky people who liked to have sex with animals. These folks claimed that they had video proof that the animals wanted to do this stuff evidenced by the men being receptive to the sex act. These individuals further claimed "they were made that way" and their attraction to animals was natural. 

It may indeed be that some people are really sexually attracted to animals Bravus but do we find any examples in the New Testament Church of the Apostles holding special masses for people who did that sort of thing or frankly any other sort of thing classified as sin. 

Look, "stealing" is just as deadly as bestiality, fornication, adultery, etc. these things are all lumped together as sin and the sooner a gay person can sit next to a fornicator or a thief and all can admit they are equally guilty the better for everyone. 

 

[JoeMo]

14 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

In SDA congregations today establish a Sabbath School class based upon a group of people  that want to  get together as a group in group study and not upon isolating that group from the rest of the congregation.

I agree.  I belong to a small group of people over 60 years old. It's not that we want to isolate ourselves from other small groups; it's because as old people, we have different worldviews and concerns than younger people who are still "immortal".  Young people would be welcome to join our group, but I doubt they would stay long.  They would probably get tired of listening to us talk and pray about our maladies and our kids and grandkids.

As far as LGBTQ+ people, I find most of them to show more love and concern for others than the general population.  Outside of their sexual orientation, I find them to be a great group to hang out with.  I have several friends and acquaintances who are gay (and/or that I suspect to be gay) including some Christian friends; and not one of them has ever hit on me.  They respect my affirmed heterosexuality and don't "judge" me for it. The least I can do is return the favor.  I can love and respect them without affirming or celebrating their gayness.  I can accept them without condoning their behavior. I don't feel like any less of a man because I'm comfortable around gay people.  That being said, I would probably never go to a gay bar or a gay club; or preside over a gay marriage.

[Bravus]

I mis-spoke. Apologies, Gustave. My friends here have corrected me, and I agree with them. I do not mean that you should stop participating.

I do mean that you should reflect upon your perspective. You moved immediately to comparing homosexuality to bestiality. Despite your protestation that you have 'no problem' with homosexuality, everything you say communicates that you have a huge problem with it, including starting this thread.

I understand that your position is that the Bible says that homosexuality is sin, and that your culture says that it is a choice and a lifestyle, rather than an inherent quality of a person. Nonetheless, all of us human beings are sinners. There is no safe space in which only perfect saints can meet.

And, given that there are sincere believers (who are also sinners) who will, like you, compare their loving relationships with their partners to bestiality, it is unsurprising that our homosexual members sometimes choose to worship with others who, like them, love the Lord.

You also immediately impugned their faith and character by suggesting that they only go to church to 'hook up'. That is a horrible thing to say: these are people who go to church for the same reasons you do.

We can disagree on whether or not the Bible says what you think it does. I don't believe it does: the words have been translated in ways, separated from culture and context, that condemn things the original texts were never even speaking about.

But you can't both accuse people of going to church to hook up, and compare their love to bestiality, and then wonder why they need a safer space at church!

My whole point was that you are the danger. You need to at least look in the mirror enough to know that.

[B/W Photodude]

On 4/15/2019 at 9:27 PM, B/W Photodude said:

?? I said over and over and over again ... ??

The line from the post was from a Dave Clark 5 song of the 60s! Checked out the words and was a bit amused to see the word "drag" in it. How weird in this discussion. OK, OK, small minds amused by small things!

The Dave Clark Five - Over And Over

I said over and over and over again 
This dance is gonna be a drag 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ji1MMXoAVk

[JoeMo]

What a blast from the past! I actually saw the Dave Clark 5 live back in 1966.  They were one of my favorite bands; and their song "Glad All Over " was one of my favorite songs back in the stone age of British Rock and before the 'Stoned Age".