Who's fooling who?

[hch]

The Nearness of Time

Time is not the message! What is happening in our time is the message that must be heard aright!

Is our natural world colliding with the unseen supernatural world? It looks that way with chaos on every front: Self-perpetuating wars, displaced populations, border insecurity, epidemic drug abuse, natural disasters of unprecedented scope, entrenched political wrangling, and the loss of the moral compass that is desperately needed to guide aright. It is not business as usual. What is happening? Why is it happening?
 

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The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind (Isaiah 17:13).

As Solomon said, “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 1:9). And the Apostles asked, “Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye” (Acts 4:19). Do we listen to God or man?

Is there a God? Is He our Creator? Or is God an imaginary Being that epitomizes man’s ideas of perfection?

Should we worship Him? The idea of worship is so old fashion. Does anybody worship anything anymore? We worship that which gets our attention.

People are so limited. The supernatural God of the universe is unseen by human eyes. People cannot even say what will happen tomorrow or even in five minutes.

To discover if God is, I began studying Bible prophecy. Bible prophecy, because the Bible claims to be able to foretell the future: “We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts” (1 Peter 1:9).
Verifying that the Bible accurately predicts the future, proves that it reveals secrets of the supernatural world. By correctly revealing the future, it proves itself trustworthy. Since the Bible is truthful, then what it says about God is trustworthy too. If prophecies that can be verified are true, God’s revelation about Himself are true too!

Adrian Rogers said in a radio sermon that there are 333 prophecies in the Bible predicting Christ’s Coming. His evidence proved that they were fulfilled exactly as predicted. Eight of these prophecies include that Jesus was born at a certain time; at a certain place; His mother was a virgin; babies were killed in an attempt to kill Him; He healed the sick; He was rejected; He was crucified; and He arose from the dead. Rogers added that if only eight prophecies of the 333 were considered: According to the law of probability, it would be like placing a man in Texas at a random location with the assignment to find a designated coin after the entire state had been covered with a two-foot pile of silver dollars. The man does the impossible, he finds it.

The gist of Rogers presentation was that Peter Stoner, a statistician, calculated the odds of prophecies that predicted Christ’s First Advent being fulfilled. They were fulfilled exactly as prophesied! Chance happenings: astronomical!

Since 333 Bible prophecies about Christ’s First Advent were right, the Bible has already demonstrated an impressive track record. Thus, the assurance: The prophecies about Christ’s Second Advent must be as trustworthy as well! My questions: Do we really understand them? Or are they so old that they have been tainted by tradition as they were passed from generation to generation?

The only way to find out for myself was to study Bible prophecy. At first, I studied prepared studies about Daniel and Revelation. When these studies were compared to studies prepared by different churches, they did not agree. If the Bible is the source of the study, how can so many churches have all those contradictions?

[JoeMo]

6 hours ago, hch said:

If the Bible is the source of the study, how can so many churches have all those contradictions?

It's all in how one interprets the prophecies.  If one has a historicist or preterist view of prophecy, they are gonna read things a lot differently than a futurist.

I believe one of the purposes of prophecy is to demonstrate to people the accuracy and foreknowledge of God when we see these prophecies fulfilled.  All we can do about prophesied future events and their timing is pure speculation.  This has been demonstrated many times when your speculations turn out to be inaccurate and need "revision".

[Gregory Matthews]

The purpose of Bible prophecy is much more than to tell the future before it happens.   The view that the primary purpose of Bible prophecy demonstrates that you do not understand the Biblical teaching.

 

 

[hch]

My quest: To find out what the Bible really said about Christ’s Second Advent. To let the Bible, speak for itself.

 

 

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And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (Matthew 24:30).

Jesus also warned, “How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!” (Matthew 24:19, NIV). Has that time past? If not, when? Why did Jesus give this warning? Is He teaching family planning?

 

 

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Your gold and silver…shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days (James 5:3, ed).

With retirement funds, 401K’s and financial planning, for the purpose of having a secure future, will there be a time that our possessions will curse us? What about having a house mortgage, car payments, and unpaid debts? When will these monitory issues be a hinderance?

How do we know when it is time to give as the Israelites gave in the wilderness: To bring our offerings to the LORD for His work? Instead of having our possessions consume our flesh, it would be better to have them to be used for God like the poor widow’s two mites.

 

 

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This poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living (Matthew 12:42-43).

With the 666 Mark of the beast coming, when will it be dangerous for men and women to go into the military? To some, joining the armed services just seems like getting a secure government job with benefits.

When the Mark of the Beast is upon us, Christians should not be in his service. Life will be hard enough for God’s people without being in the military. Is it wise to leave eternal decisions to chance? Why would Jesus forewarn us if He did not want us to understand His warning at the appropriate time and make preparation? Are we listening?

 

 

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In the prophecies the future is opened before us as plainly as it was opened...by the words of Christ. The events…are clearly presented. But multitudes have no more understanding of these important truths than if they had never been revealed.

 

 

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The Lord is testing His people to see who will be loyal to the principles of His truth. Our work is to proclaim to the world the first, second, and third angels’ messages. In the discharge of our duties we are neither to despise nor to fear our enemies. … We are to treat with kindness and courtesy those who refuse to be loyal to God, but we are never, never to unite with them in counsel regarding the vital interests of His work. Putting our trust in God, we are to move steadily forward, doing His work with unselfishness, in humble dependence upon Him, committing to His providence ourselves and all that concerns our present and future, holding the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end, remembering that we receive the blessings of heaven, not because of our worthiness, but because of Christ’s worthiness and our acceptance, through faith in Him, of God’s abounding grace.

 

 

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It is possible to be a formal, partial believer, and yet be found wanting, and lose eternal life. It is possible to practice some of the Bible injunctions, and be regarded as a Christian, and yet perish because you are lacking in essential qualifications that constitute Christian character. The destroying angels have the commission from the Lord, “Begin at My sanctuary.” And “they began at the ancient men which were before the house.” If the warnings which God has given are neglected or regarded with indifference, if you suffer sin to be cherished, you are sealing your soul’s destiny; you will be weighed in the balances and found wanting. Grace, peace, and pardon will be withdrawn forever; Jesus will have passed by, never again to come within the reach of your prayers and entreaties. While mercy still lingers, while Jesus is making intercession for us, let us make thorough work for eternity.

 

 

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The Spirit of God is departing from many among His people. Many have entered into dark, secret paths, and some will never return. They will continue to stumble to their ruin. They have tempted God, they have rejected light. All the evidence that will ever be given them they have received, and have not heeded. They have chosen darkness rather than light, and have defiled their souls… The world is polluted, corrupted, as was the world in the days of Noah. The only remedy is belief in the truth, acceptance of the light. Yet many have listened to the truth spoken in demonstration of the Spirit, and they have not only refused to accept the message, but they have hated the light. These men are parties to the ruin of souls. They have interposed themselves between the heaven-sent light and the people.

To fail to worship God is to choose to worship another by default. Whoever gets our attention gets our worship. God is not going to be second place. Get ready to meet God!

[hch]

Wake up!

The clergy sex scandal will not go away. What appeared to be an isolated fornication scandal in Boston has morphed into a mega scandal in Pennsylvania and beyond with new allegations flaring up everywhere. The Roman Church that sprang from Christ’s Apostolic Church has become the priests’ brothel. Who would have imagined such a thing?

This fornication scandal is reminiscent of ancient Babylon, that mighty city that fell during a wild orgy. This development should not surprise anyone: In the past, the Roman Church’s spiritual fornication, embracing false doctrines, has led Bible students to conclude that she “has been in a fallen condition for many centuries.” “The term Babylon, derived from Babel, and signifying confusion, is applied in Scripture to the various forms of false or apostate religion.” All false and apostate religions are Babylon whether they are currently involved in this horrific sex scandal or not.

Is the Fornicating Roman Church Endtime Spiritual Babylon?
Though these immoral revelations surprised the masses, God was not broadsided by these abominations or anything that is coming. Through the Apostle John, God forewarned of Babylon’s fornication 2000 years before these headlines:
 

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Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication…Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies… Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues (Revelation 14:8; 18:2-4, ed).

In recent years, her teachings have become very popular with professed Christians. Most Protestants cannot discern the difference between Rome’s doctrines (that resulted in the death of their forefathers) from sound Bible doctrine. In spite of the popularity of false Roman doctrines, God has always had a people, who possessed the truth as it is in Jesus.
 

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Romanism is now regarded by Protestants with far greater favor than in former years. In those countries where Catholicism is not in the ascendency, and the papists are taking a conciliatory course in order to gain influence, there is an increasing indifference concerning the doctrines that separate the reformed churches from the papal hierarchy; the opinion is gaining ground, that, after all, we do not differ so widely upon vital points as has been supposed, and that a little concession on our part will bring us into a better understanding with Rome. The time was when Protestants placed a high value upon the liberty of conscience which has been so dearly purchased. They taught their children to abhor popery, and held that to seek harmony with Rome would be disloyalty to God. But how widely different are the sentiments now expressed.

Was the Roman Church ever God’s true Church? Yes, the Christian Church arose to do what the Jews had failed to do: Take Christ’s gospel to the world. Thus, the Christian Church was established at various cities in the ancient world and at the city of Rome; then the Roman Church morphed into a mega religio-political power after the Roman emperor appointed it to head all of Christendom.

Appointing the Bishop at Rome to be the head of all of Christendom changed the body of Christ into an agent of the state. The conflict: Two masters with conflicting agendas.
John predicted the fall of endtime Babylon, because of her fornication. The Roman Catholic Church has obviously fallen, because of her fornication/sex scandals! Is Bible prophecy now being fulfilled, or is this merely a coincidence?

John predicted the fall of endtime Babylon, because of her fornication. The Roman Catholic Church has obviously fallen, because of her fornication/sex scandals! Is Bible prophecy now being fulfilled, or is this merely a coincidence?
 

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The prophecies of Daniel and of John are to be understood; they interpret each other. They give to the world truths which everyone should understand. These prophecies are to be witnesses in the world. By their fulfillment in these last days, they will explain themselves.

Thus, prophecy is fulfilling: The Roman Church is fallen because of her fornication! Pope Benedict XVI’s resignation was linked to Babylon’s fornication scandal. How so? Prior to becoming Pope Benedict XVI, as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, he had been authorized to “handle abuse cases directly,” but he was “part of a culture of nonresponsibility, denial, legalistic foot-dragging and outright obstruction.” He “leaves behind a Church grappling with a global fallout from sex abuse and a personal legacy marred by allegations that he was instrumental in covering up that abuse.”

He had known about the priests’ fornications. As pope, his ritual usher was even “implicated in a gay prostitution ring… on the heels of major pedophilia scandals involving the abuse of children by priests in Ireland, Germany and the United States.” His failure to correct the pedophile priests’ overt fornications contradicted his pious profession of morality: “The Church cannot cease to proclaim that in accordance with God’s plans (cf. Mt 19: 3-9), marriage and the family are irreplaceable and permit no other alternatives.” Thus, prior to becoming pope, Benedict XVI had authority to act, but he did nothing. As pope, Benedict XVI’s reign ended in 2013 while the priests’ sex scandal was fulfilling the Second Angel’s Message of Revelation 14 as it was repeating in Revelation 18.

[Gregory Matthews]

Exactly what positive thing have you accomplished by posting this?

 

[hch]

18 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Exactly what positive thing have you accomplished by posting this?

The second angel's message in Revelation 14 states that "Babylon is fallen." The message is repeated in Revelation 18 with the reason given: "Babylon is fallen because of her fornication" and the accompanying command is given; "Come out of her My people!"

To obey the command to "Come out of her My people," God's people must be able to identify Babylon. It is possible to dispute about Babylon's spiritual fornications and to try to conceal her identity. But while Daniel and Revelation are understood by their literal fulfillment in our very day: The blatant acts of fornication that will not go away cannot be hidden. The scandalous fornication, the attempts to hide Babylon's fornication, and the devastating consequences of it proclaim that Babylon's identity is unmistakable and the command to flee Babylon cannot be more clear. Prophecy identifies Babylon and God's people must flee it or they endanger their very lives. 

Obedience to the word of God is a matter of life or death. It is not optional. When the last plagues fall, those plagues will fall upon Babylon and the people who associate themselves with Babylon. 

The positive accomplishment of that post is that not only the present life can be saved, but eternal life can be given to those that clearly identify Babylon and obey God's call to flee from Babylon. Saving the lives of those who are willing to identify Babylon and to heed the warning to flee from her is the ultimate goal of Christ in coming to this world...to seek and to save!

It is written: "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

The negative things that will follow the denial of the truth or trying to hide the identity of Babylon is the needless death of those who cannot or will not see Babylon as she is. Failing to give the warning to those who are about to needlessly perish, may be politically correct, but that willful failure is an immoral act that lacks the love of Christ, who came to seek and to save the lost.

Who is fooling who? Silence when life and death hang in the balance is hatred that conceals itself in a false profession of love. Who loves others so much that they will choose to be so politically correct as to not say anything to those who are perishing for fear that it might hurt their feelings, when saying a word in season can possibly save their lives? Those who love others as Christ loves us do not sit by and let others die for the sake of political correctness.

[hch]

Flee Babylon!

Though Judaism was initially established by God and it is not outwardly linked to a fornication scandal, until it repents of its rejection of Jesus, the Messiah, it is Babylon! If Jews repent, accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, and follow Christ, He will take them back into His family:
 

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The branches were broken off…because of unbelief… God spared not the natural branches…If they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again (Romans 11:19-23).

Though Islam was not established by God as were the Jews and Christians, He will graft them into the family of Christ if they accept Him: The WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE! Likewise, Christians that have left their First love must repent and return to Christ! Refusing Heaven’s spiritual light has doomed generations. When truth/light moved to greater light, those who refused to follow it were left in darkness.

The religions of the Jews, Catholics, and Muslims have turned from light to become Spiritual Babylon. Now God’s faithful people must love them to Jesus. But if the people of these great religions persist in their errors: They will make it clear that they are satisfied to only have a form of godliness:

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Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away (2 Timothy 3:5).

As their spiritual leaders have led them away from Christ (the Light of the world), it is now happening in the Protestant Churches. They are giving up cherished Truths to go back to the Roman Catholic Mother Church. Do they see nothing wrong with the Roman Church or its doctrines? Do they not see its fornications? Do they not hear God calling His people out of fornicating Babylon?

When the Protestant churches failed to see the Roman Catholic priests’ mega sex scandal, the media exposed it. While the churches turn a blind eye, what is happening?

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June 27, 2015 WASHINGTON — …The Supreme Court ruled by a 5-to-4 vote on Friday that the Constitution guarantees a right to same-sex marriage. “No longer may this liberty be denied,” Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote …

When the Supreme court of the United States of America ruled in favor of homosexual marriage/fornication, none of the justices professed the Protestant values of the founding fathers. Three of the justices were Jewish: Breyer, Kagan, and Ginsburg. The majority of the Justices were Catholic: Alito, Kennedy, Roberts, Sotomayor, and Thomas. Gorsuch was raised Catholic, but he currently attends an Episcopal church. Thus, the landmark decision by the majority of the Court’s Justices on gay marriage was impacted by the education that they had received at the hands of Catholic priests, the very class involved in Babylon’s fornications. And the decision that the Court reached has juxtaposed the Law of the land in Protestant America against the Law of God.
 

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On July 30, 1956, President Eisenhower signed into law the establishment of “In God We Trust” as our national motto. But it is more than just a motto. It is our country’s foundation and an important part of our identity as Americans.

 

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Whatever we once were, we’re no longer a Christian nation. At least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, and a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers…

 

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…Our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and Republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. (1889)

Six of the nine Justices, who decided that gay marriage issue, have declared that America is no longer a Christian nation that is subject to the Law of God: America is Political Babylon. And shortly after their judgment was rendered, President Obama, “welcomed it!”

As God’s word had foretold, the kings of the earth committed fornication with Babylon. On 26 June 2015, the US joined eighteen other nations in recognizing gay marriage as the law of the land: Babylon’s priests’ fornication is now their standard for intimacy within the marriage covenant.

The kings of the earth (the rulers in America that make, interpret, and enforce our laws) have committed fornication with Babylon while we sat by with our hands folded. As we beheld, prophecy was fulfilled in our day!
 

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All nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her (Revelation 18:3).

As the Scripture has foretold, it has come about in our day: the kings of the earth have committed fornication with Babylon. The priests have fornicated (men with boys), in spite of the pope’s public position, “The Church cannot cease to proclaim that in accordance with God’s plans (cf. Mt 19: 3-9), marriage and the family are irreplaceable and permit no other alternatives.” And America’s leaders have exalted the priests’ alternative to the marriage covenant in defiance of God’s specific warning that this is an abomination:

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If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them (Leviticus 20:13).

It is not up to Christians to condemn any of the folks that have been entrapped by their lusts, for God will ultimately judge His people and He will render His verdict upon those who disobey His directives. “For the LORD shall judge His people…If I whet My glittering sword, and Mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to Mine enemies, and will reward them that hate Me” (Deuteronomy 32:36, 41). Yet no one, who has been deceived by lust, needs to die. Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery, “Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more” (John 8:11). There is hope in Jesus for those who recognize their sins, repent of them, and turn away from iniquity (known sin).

Some assume that this ban against homosexuality is no longer valid because it is found in the Old Testament near the ban against eating shellfish. Since many Christians eat shellfish, they reason that both bans are no longer binding. Remember the old adage: Two wrongs do not make a right. Instead of making homosexuality less of a sin, the context affirms that eating shellfish is wrong! By the state legalizing gay marriage, the sexual intimacy that simulates the normal sexuality in a marriage is extended to gay couples, and their fornication takes on the appearance of social acceptability.

God is not singling out those who are deceived by gay sex. He has the same warning for heterosexuals that are deceived by lust. “The adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death” (Leviticus 20:13). In fact, Leviticus 20:1-23 lists many sexual practices that God abhors.

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As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die…? (Ezekiel 33:11, ed).

The shellfish argument is a red herring defense designed to justify remaining in sin; to excuse sinful behavior, rather than to acknowledge it as sin and repent of it. Jesus did not do away with the Old Testament’s health regulations or its prohibition against immorality. As eating unclean foods and immorality was unhealthy for Jews, it is unhealthy for Christians. The coming of the Christian dispensation did not change anyone’s metabolism or their urge to procreate. Jesus clearly said: “If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead” (Luke 16:31). Are Christians hearing Moses and being persuaded to abstain from immorality because they are listening to him? Are they choosing to eat what Jesus ate?

Jesus authorized Peter, “Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matthew 16:19). Later, Peter was commanded, “Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean… This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven” (Acts 10:13-16, ed). The unclean animals remained bound when they went back to heaven, because Peter refused to unbind them or eat them.

An aside: Because Peter let all the unclean animals remain bound in the vessel, there is no justification for the Christian to eat swine. Peter did not unbind it. It remains on the unclean food list in Leviticus. Rather than to clean pigs for human consumption, Jesus commanded devils to go into the swine/pigs (cf Matthew 8:30-32; Mark 5:11-13; Luke 8:32-33). And Paul teaches us, “Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils” (1 Corinthians 10:21). How can Christians eat the Lord’s Supper and eat swine’s flesh after Jesus commanded the devils to enter it?

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The devils besought Him, saying, If Thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And He said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine (Matthew 8:31-32, ed).

The Supreme Court’s decision in favor of homosexual marriage makes the law of the land contradict the truth in God’s word. Putting Christ’s teachings at odds with the laws of America (historically a Christian nation) is polarizing its government against Christ’s people. “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation” (Matthew 12:25). One nation indivisible under God has become a nation divided along extreme lines. Rebellion against the laws of the state has consequences, as does rebellion against the Law of God.

Each one must choose to obey God or to rebel against Him: To believe and follow the Plan of Salvation exactly as God has revealed it or to deviate from the Plan of Salvation according to personal whims. There is no middle ground. Obeying God is not legalism or working our way to Heaven: Obedience to God testifies of our love and gratitude to our Savior for His matchless sacrifice on our behalf. On the other hand, rebellion against God is choosing to live in Babylon.

Strict obedience poses a significant problem for people, who believe the popular teaching that all religions lead to God: Especially the three great religions that are linked to Abraham, a servant of the only true God. The popular belief is that all religions are just different means to the same end, i.e., that one religion is just as good as another. Those, who believe that lie, resist changing because they do not think it is necessary: A satanic doctrine designed to deceive and ruin souls, who are not grounded in God’s word. But Satan has been relatively successful in his assault on the Church.

With Bible prophecy fast fulfilling around us, the identity of Babylon is so clear, but billions of people have not heard God’s call to flea Babylon. If they have heard His call, they may not have a clue what He is talking about: Calling them from apostate religions that may once have served God.

When truth encounters error, choose to follow truth. Pride makes it difficult. Pride questions the one bringing the truth, “Why do you think you are right and I am wrong?” Or: “What makes you think you are better than me?”

When the Roman Church encountered the Reformation, not all of its members saw the need to Reform the Mother Church. And while the media is exposing Papal Babylon, not all of the Protestants see the danger at hand as evidenced by the fact that many Protestant churches are reuniting with Rome while God is calling: Come out of her My people!

God invites us to reason together (cf Isaiah 1:18), not to put down the beliefs cherished by others, but to study together that we may grow into the unity that Jesus wanted for His people. When God calls people out of Babylon, He is calling them to seek for the truth as it is in Jesus.

The choice is clear: 1) Will we follow God as He leads, or 2) will we do our own thing (whether it is to explain away a thus saith the Lord or to deceive ourselves and to remain willfully ignorant). It does not matter the way we rebel against God; the consequences are deadly.

The Protestant Churches, the daughters of the Roman Mother Church, arose to take Christ’s love to the world. In time, they too apostatized from the distinct doctrines that made them Reformers. As the Jews left their first love, and the Roman Church left her first love, the Protestant Churches have left their first love. This is evident by the fact that while the media is revealing that the Catholic priest’s fornication scandal is more pervasive than imagined, Protestants are normalizing gay marriage, and Protestant Churches are reuniting with the Roman Mother Church while overlooking God’s command: Come out of her My people!

[Gregory Matthews]

Eternal life is not given to those who have an intellectual knowledge of the truth.  As has been said, even Satan knows the truth.

I suggest that you give some study to the basis of salvation and eternal life.

[hch]

12 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Eternal life is not given to those who have an intellectual knowledge of the truth.  As has been said, even Satan knows the truth.

I suggest that you give some study to the basis of salvation and eternal life.

Thank you for your suggestion. But perhaps with the human language being as imperfect as it is, I failed to make my view clear or you did not understand what I meant after you read what I wrote?

Those who miss heaven will probably miss it by about 13-18 inches. That is the distance from the heart to the brain. Head knowledge without the heart being in it is worthless. "As a man thinks in his heart..."

On the other side of the coin, their will be some folks that think that they believe with all of their hearts, and do not believe the truth. It is written that ''the heart of man is deceptive"

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, hch said:

With Bible prophecy fast fulfilling around us, the identity of Babylon is so clear,

It may be "so clear" to you (in your opinion), but your view is not that clear to me.  I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but IMHO you are nowhere near completely correct, either.  But I continue to admire your passion and sincerity.  Babylon may indeed be an area once ruled by Babylon; which at the moment is almost completely Islamic.

[hch]

3 hours ago, JoeMo said:

It may be "so clear" to you (in your opinion), but your view is not that clear to me.  I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but IMHO you are nowhere near completely correct, either.  But I continue to admire your passion and sincerity.  Babylon may indeed be an area once ruled by Babylon; which at the moment is almost completely Islamic.

JoeMo.

That is an interesting observation that had not entered my mind.

Literal Babylon (the area occupied by the original city state) is Islamic.

Spiritual Babylon (religions that have left their first love because Christ has become a stumbling-block to them) i.e., Apostate religion. And as you will see, I have not yet looked at religions that are not linked to Abraham.

And what I note in passing "political Babylon" (America comes to mind as an example of this)

Thanks for sharing.

[Gregory Matthews]

A couple of posts up from this one, The Wanderer has requested that  I comment on the use of the term :Babylon" in Revelation 18:4.  My response in this forum will be a limited one and not an in-depth study of the Biblical use of tha term.

It should be noted that both the OT and the NT use the term "Babylon."   In addition, that term in used in more than one sense in the Bible.  Its beginnings has been traced back to a city located in a Mesopotamian valley.  It was important as a capital city in the Amorite dynasty and the famous Hammurabi.  It has been a vassal kingdom and was destroyed by Sennacherib.  In 626 B.C.  Under Nabopolassar, it was an independent kingdom.  Partial destruction occurred in 480 BC under Xerxes.  

In the NT, Peter sent greetings ( 1st Peter 5:13) from the church in Babylon which is generally agreed to be Rome.  Other texts in the NT seem to suggest that "Babylon"  stands for those opposed to  Christ.  Examples of this may be found in Revelation 14:8;  16:19 & 17:18.   The result of this is that we see "Babylon" cited in the NT as both being a place where a true Christian Church existed (Peter's citation) and as a place where considerable opposition to Christianity existed.  Such a situation could have been confusing and requiring  people to carefully distinguish between truth and error that might be coming from Babylon (Rome).

The passage in Revelation 18:4 clearly references negative aspects of this Biblical constructs of Babylon.  In looking at it, I relate it to the passage in Revelation 14:8, which we call the 2nd angel's Message.  To sum up my understanding of this passage, I would say:  The message of this 2nd angel, in End Time, is that both truth and error   will exist and   all followers of Christ must carefully distinguish between what is truth and what is error.  Once that determination has been made, all followers of Christ must reject that which is error and only accept that which is truth.

IOW, the call to come out of Babylon is a call to reject spiritual error, whatever its source.

 

 

[hch]

1 hour ago, Gregory Matthews said:

the call to come out of Babylon is a call to reject spiritual error, whatever its source.

The call in Revelation to come out of her (Babylon) My people? Can one "reject spiritual error" or come out of spiritual error while remaining in churches that promote and teach those errors?

[hch]

The sheep hear their Shepherd

God’s people hear His voice! “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me” (John 10:27).

If God’s professed people do not hear His voice, or they do not follow it; they will be left in darkness as were the Jews that did not follow Jesus, those in the Roman Church that did not Reform, Muslims, and Protestants that have apostatized. While God is calling: Come out of fornicating Babylon My people, the wise will hear and they will obey!

There are many people, who do not understand that sexual fornication is Baal worship or idolatry. One of the very sins that led Israel into the Babylonian Captivity. Others believe that because God chose Israel, the Apostolic Church, or a Reformed Church to be His Chosen People, that God will never forsake them. But even after Israel finally completely rejected Jesus as their Messiah, some folks today reason that God is compelled to bless Israel as if they are still His Chosen People. Divorces do not work that way! God warned Israel that their status as His chosen people was dependent on their relationship with Him. Consider His warning to them as follows from Deuteronomy 27:9-29…

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O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt therefore obey the voice of the LORD thy God, and do His commandments and His statutes, which I command thee this day…

 

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And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all His commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God…

 

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The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto Himself, as He hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in His ways. And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee…

 

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And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them. But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee...

 

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The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken Me…

 

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Moreover, all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded thee: And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed forever. Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things; Therefore, shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and He shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until He have destroyed thee…

 

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If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD; Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. Moreover, He will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee. Also, every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed. And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God…

 

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As the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so, the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest…

 

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These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which He made with them in Horeb.

This was only a small portion of the warning to God’s people. Read it all in a translation of your choosing.

God faithfully keeps His word to bless, and He faithfully keeps His word to curse. The Lord wants to bless more than we can receive, but He will not compel anyone to obey Him!

On 6 February 2019, Pope Francis disclosed that Babylon’s fornicating priests have been using nuns as sex slaves. On the 16th, the pope defrocked Cardinal McCarrick for sexually abusing children and seminarians. On the 21st through the 24th, a global bishop’s conference had been convened to address the clergy sex abuse scandal within the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church’s fornications have become so blatant that They cannot be denied or swept under the proverbial rug.

God warns all of His sheep: Come out of her My people! God’s people obey Him! They flee fornicating Babylon!

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I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues (Revelation 18:4)

 

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My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to Me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children (Hosea 4:6).

Hear God! Obey Him! Flee Babylon! Do not delay!

[hch]

37 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

People do it all the time. "Coming out" of "Babylon" simply means getting real with Jesus.

It is also written that the River Euphrates that flows into Babylon is to dry up.

Being that water depicts people, when the river flowing into Babylon dries up, the prophecy seems to be saying that when Babylon is cast down because of her fornication the flow of people into it stops. Not a trickling cessation.

Is this the same old same old here and there one by one fleeing Babylon or is this a mass movement that is being depicted by those who are hearing a life of death message?

[JoeMo]

5 hours ago, hch said:

The Roman Catholic Church’s fornications have become so blatant that They cannot be denied or swept under the proverbial rug.

God warns all of His sheep: Come out of her My people! God’s people obey Him! They flee fornicating Babylon!

Babylon represents much more than the clergy of the RCC.  You are thinking far too narrowly.  Babylon represents "professed" Christians all over the world that delve in non-Biblical practices, including the occult.  This includes people of all religions - not just Christianity.

[JoeMo]

1 minute ago, The Wanderer said:

 I would need to know more about why you are saying it this way.  Is it because you believe that all "future" prophecy is "wrong" until proven right?

  How do you come to such weird conclusions?  Of course I'm not saying that!  As long as we've been corresponding on this forum, I think that should be obvious.

It has been shown throughout church history that people often misinterpret prophecy about the future.  How many times have people been wrong about the second coming (1844 comes to mind)?  Was that May day in 1790 REALLY the dark day described in Revelation? Is America the Beast of Revelation? Or is it the RCC? Or is it Islam?  Was the 70th week of Daniel the 7 years immediately after Christ's death or is it sometime in the future.  Is there a rapture?  If so, is it pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib?  Etc., etc, etc.

Surely someone out there is right; and someone is wrong.  "Speculation" does not mean "wrong"; it just means you can't "prove" it until it happens.

[hch]

6 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Babylon represents much more than the clergy of the RCC.  You are thinking far too narrowly.  Babylon represents "professed" Christians all over the world that delve in non-Biblical practices, including the occult.  This includes people of all religions - not just Christianity.

True, and I have made that very point from Judaism to the RCC and beyond to include Islam and Apostate Protestantism. It Is possible to miss that all inclusive application to Babylon if my post is read too quickly or if some to the posts get missed. But Judgment starts with the House of God. Those who do not believe in Christ as their Savior do not have salvation through His blood. Your the point that Babylon is more than the RCC clergy is also. true and mentioned in my posts. But The prophecy about fallen Babylon is being fulfilled Literally by the RCCC and to miss the obvious would be unfortunate. The literal fulfillment of Revelation 18 is upon us. There may be a spiritual application, but it will come about in God's own time. I don't want to miss the forest because of the trees.

[Gregory Matthews]

Well, thank you.

 

[hch]

11 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

...Yes, there are several other contexts in which "Babylon" is used in scripture,  but I am not aware of any that single out a specific denomination, and makes a specific drive against a specific Church.

THIS does not mean I dont believe in "what we have been taught;" but it does mean that I question what we are doing with such a weighty responsiblity, insofar as the truths we have been entrusted with. ..

(I can almost feel the internet rotten tomatoes being hurled, already).

The character of the posts (and content) on this topic (thus far), has been more spiritually filling than most threads as far as I am concerned. I have learned more from the different perspectives that have been shared here than I usually learn.

[stinsonmarri]

10 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

People do it all the time. "Coming out" of "Babylon" simply means getting real with Jesus.

Saying with a loud voice, Fear ELOAH, and give GLORY to HIM; for the hour of HIS Judgment is come and worship HIM that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Rev 14:7, 8

Again, people want to make the prophecy in the Bible to be anything but what it says. It does not say spiritual Babylon at all!   Rev 16:19; 17:5; 18:2, 10, 21  What is said in prophetical term is the following:

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our MASTER was crucified. Rev 11:8 

 

Both Egypt and Sodom are called spiritually related to the great city where YAHSHUA was crucified. What city is that, none other than Jerusalem and the angels gives John the clue who now has become also Babylon and spiritually Egypt, and Sodom the great city Jerusalem. This is not hidden it is plain as the nose on your face. Jerusalem has become the city of confusion with varies religions, Judaism, Christianity (both Catholic and Protestants denominations), and Islam altogether in one city claiming the all believe in some way of or another in God! What a joke! Even Islam uses the word God now! The angel tells John they all are uncaged birds along with the evil spirits that rule them.

Westerners just don’t want to believe that they are delusional to believe a lie. John was told of the original foe against THE ALMIGHTY ONES, the Papacy had lost its political supremacy and no reduce to a church. The church has become a whore over her daughters the Protestants who have committed fornications with all the kings/presidents of the world. What would make her whole again, and that is to rule in Jerusalem. Just like Satan, wants to be above THE MOST HIGH and rule the universe!

The whore is riding on the beast who is the same fourth beast in Daniel. The fourth beast is all three beasts wrap up into one! It is all the fraction of the religion that Nimrod started that has come together into one man! Six represents man when he lost Seven perfections! The beast that was is not but yet is has always been a man who opposes YAHWEH. The beast was-6-Nimrod; is not-6 the papacy, yet is-6 the beast who is a man. The formula is right under our nose and we turn a deaf ear and try to make is everything else! Don’t be fool the papacy had the beast and trained him, but he caught on to her lies. He joined with the devil, who gave this man his throne, seat, and power! It is all about worship! The papacy gets Jerusalem, the Jews accepts her and her daughters, so they get the Temple built. The beast gets the rest of the world with the 10 kings. But It is YAHWEH WILL to destroy Jerusalem and the papacy! The hour of judgment has come for the final time on Jerusalem. It will be destroyed and by her buddy USA, don’t be fool!

The beast will fight with the papacy the battle of Armageddon, he nor his army is a match with YAHSHUA! Soon as they see HIM, HE takes the beast and the false prophet and put them in the Lake of Fire. The rest of the beast army looks on YAHSHUA and dies instantly and an angel calls the birds to eat their flesh. That is not a war! DON’T BE FOOL!

 

Please read the Bible for yourself with prayer! Blessings!

[hch]

Prophecy

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Ye are My witnesses, saith the LORD… that ye may know and believe Me, and understand…I have showed… My witnesses… that I am God (cf Isaiah 43:9-12, ed).

Without being infallible, uncertainty limits us. We can only bear witness of what we know. The Apostle Paul put it this way: “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away” (1 Corinthians 13:9-10).

Man is unable to foresee what will happen tomorrow, but God is the Revealer of Secrets. Thousands of years ago God gave incredible revelations for our time. Historical records confirm that some Bible prophecies have been fulfilled in the past, but not all of God’s ancient prophecies have been completely fulfilled! Today’s fascinating headlines like the priests’ fornication scandals proclaim that the last day events that God foretold long ago are upon us. Those things that we wonder and speculate about will explain themselves when the prophecies are completely fulfilled.

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Yet while it was not given to the prophets to understand fully the things revealed to them, they earnestly sought to obtain all the light which God had been pleased to make manifest. They “inquired and searched diligently,” “searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify.” What a lesson to the people of God in the Christian age, for whose benefit these prophecies were given to His servants! “Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister.” Witness those holy men of God as they “inquired and searched diligently” concerning revelations given them for generations that were yet unborn. Contrast their holy zeal with the listless unconcern with which the favored ones of later ages treat this gift of Heaven. What a rebuke to the ease-loving, world-loving indifference which is content to declare that the prophecies cannot be understood![1]

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Are we to wait until the fulfillment of the prophecies of the end before we say anything concerning them? Of what value will our words be then? Shall we wait until God's judgments fall upon the transgressor before we tell him how to avoid them? Where is our faith in the word of God? Must we see things foretold come to pass before we will believe what He has said? In clear, distinct rays light has come to us, showing us that the great day of the Lord is near at hand, “even at the doors.” Let us read and understand before it is too late.[2]

God did not give prophecy to make us smarter sinners. God IS and He has a plan for our happiness that He is revealing through word, the Bible, in His own good time.

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We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2 Peter 1:19-21).

Peter’s warning that no prophecy is of any private interpretation uses the word idios for the word translated as private. Idios is the root of the word idiotic. No prophecy is of any idiotic interpretation! Often people who disagree with a prophetic interpretation justify their opposition by claiming that the interpretation in question is a private interpretation. In some cases that may be true, but at other times: It is a false claim presented to protect cherished traditional beliefs.

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Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith (Romans 12:6, ed).

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If all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced (1 Corinthians 1:24, ed).

---

[1] GC 344.3

[2] 9T 20.1

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, hch said:

Often people who disagree with a prophetic interpretation justify their opposition by claiming that the interpretation in question is a private interpretation. In some cases that may be true, but at other times: It is a false claim presented to protect cherished traditional beliefs.

? Well said.  We all (including me) should keep this in mind.

[JoeMo]

Hi Marri,

I don't know if your picture is really you; but if it is, you look mature enough to remember when racism was blatant in this country.  Those were terrible times.  I was a high school/college student in those days; and even then I was appalled at how white folks treated people of color.  You have to admit, things are much better now than they were 50 years ago.  Yet latent racism works both ways.  Yes, there are still groups of white racists.  But it works both ways.  There are also still groups of African-Americans who hate all (or most) white folks.  Same goes for Latinos.

Due to sensitivities, I think many of us take innocent (although maybe not PC) comments to be racial slurs.  I prefer to think most of us here on AS are not racist; and some of our allegedly unsavory comments are  due to cultural differences; and not racism.  For example, most of my Hispanic friends have no problem with teasing each other about cultural and racial differences.  However, with very few exceptions, I don't find that true with my black friends.  Just an observation from my personal experience.  For example, I invited some black friends over for a "picnic".  They were very offended and refused to come. I asked why, and they explained to me the origin of the word "picnic".  Next time I invited them over was for to "grill in the back yard".  They were okay with that.  But it was cultural ignorance - not racism - that caused me to invite them to a "picnic".

I know this is off topic.