A New SDA Hymnal Needed?

[Gregory Matthews]

Does the SDA Church need a new hymnal?  See the following article for an interesting comment on this subject.

https://spectrummagazine.org/arts-essays/2019/time-new-adventist-hymnal

 

[JoeMo]

I haven't been to a church that uses hymnals for group worship in a long time.  Words are projected on a screen using Power Point.  Most churches mix traditional and contemporary Christian music in worship now; so a new hard-copy hymnal would probably upset both the traditional and contemporary members of the Church because of too much of "this" kind of music and not enough of "that" kind.

[B/W Photodude]

51 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

I haven't been to a church that uses hymnals for group worship in a long time.  Words are projected on a screen using Power Point.  Most churches mix traditional and contemporary Christian music in worship now; so a new hard-copy hymnal would probably upset both the traditional and contemporary members of the Church because of too much of "this" kind of music and not enough of "that" kind.

I attended a church yesterday which had computers, big screens around. Even the speaker had to use the monitor to know what to say next! (Not the sermon) I was less than impressed with the service as it seemed to lack any solemness. If I were "shopping" for a new church, I would have kept going.

A few quotes from the linked article:

Why Churches Should Ditch The Projector Screens And Bring Back Hymnals

Perhaps we no longer hear about the worship debate because everyone is simply tired of fighting. Positions have calcified. No matter how well-intentioned, few minds are being changed. Bringing up the subject only tears open wounds that haven’t quite healed.

In a last-gasp effort, here’s the case for bringing back hymnals and ditching those awful screens.

Screens Don’t Belong In Church
To the first point: they’re horrifically ugly. In churches that don’t look like churches, the sort that instinctively prompt you to look for basketball nets and a scoreboard, they almost fit.

Hymnals Provide Deep, Theologically Rich Worship
As hymnals fade, theology also suffers. The rich repository of religious wisdom contained in hymns will be lost. The old-fashioned language of hymns may strike some as unusual, but their text teaches the Christian faith far better than most of the praise choruses that dominate contemporary services. Old hymns were carefully crafted with theology at the forefront.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/06/18/churches-should-ditch-projector-screens-bring-back-hymnals/

[JoeMo]

I have no problems with hymnals; but I think that's because I'm old.  I grew up with hymnals. IMHO many of the 75% of the population that is younger than I am relate more to screens than hymnals.  What are we gonna put in a new hymnal - the same songs that are in the old hymnal or a bunch of 7/11 songs (7 words repeated 11 times)?  Who will decide? 

[thx4mercy]

I wish they would get rid of the screens but I don't think it will ever happen.  How would they then display their cartoons for sermon illustrations?

[B/W Photodude]

4 hours ago, thx4mercy said:

How would they then display their cartoons for sermon illustrations?

Yep. I was amazed at the illustration used for the children's story this past week. Shocked would be an even more accurate word. Well, here. Check out the children's story illustration:

Sister Ellen wrote often of angels fleeing the church over misbehavior. Do you think they stayed for this one?

[thx4mercy]

And this is in the sanctuary before a Holy God!  Is this what is called mixing the Holy with the profane?  As much as I should be horrified at the lack of reverence in most of our sanctuaries these days, I think what almost bothers me more is how it seems that everybody just sits there and accepts it. 

I'm waiting for somebody to stand up and shout, "Get this out of here!"  Maybe I'm partly disgusted at myself because I don't have the nerve, or am not truly bothered enough, or in the right way--righteous indignation.  Probably all of the above.

[Morwenna]

It would be interesting to see what a church would do without power for a Sabbath. Would they even hold services? What would happen if the computers stopped working? Would they call the IT department, or would they wait until Sabbath hours were over?

[pierrepaul]

On 6/24/2019 at 11:12 PM, thx4mercy said:

Is this what is called mixing the Holy with the profane? 

What is profane about the technology?

[JoeMo]

B/W,

Was the picture you posted from a video, or was it a still picture.  I've seen some kid's videos that use weird creatures to teach important spiritual lessons to kids.  "Veggie Tales" comes to mind.

Sometimes I think we project God to be a real "stick-in-the-mud"; that He has little to no sense of humor; and only likes music that was written before 1940.  If God truly loves every human, He loves those who do things differently than us old white guys.  Hymnal or screen, traditional or contemporary, I will sing my heart out at worship, because that's one of the only times I truly feel caught up in the Spirit.

[thx4mercy]

2 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

What is profane about the technology?

Not referring to the technology itself, but rather to what is being displayed with it, like the cartoons.

[pierrepaul]

When I was a lad we had cartoons too. We called them "felts". Same thing; different time; different technology.

[pierrepaul]

On 6/23/2019 at 11:10 PM, JoeMo said:

... or a bunch of 7/11 songs (7 words repeated 11 times)?

IMO a lot of the old hymns are 7/11 songs as well. And even when the lyrics are varied, the alleged "deep theological meanings" in most hymns can be summed up in 3 or 4 words; no different from the contemporary "praise songs" (again, all in my humble opinion).

[thx4mercy]

6 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

When I was a lad we had cartoons too. We called them "felts". Same thing; different time; different technology.

Were the felts depicting cartoon characters?  I thought they were usually Bible characters and other good things.

[pierrepaul]

14 hours ago, thx4mercy said:

Were the felts depicting cartoon characters?  I thought they were usually Bible characters and other good things.

They were artistic depictions of persons, places and things. Some of those persons were good; others were scoundrels. Cartoon characters are also depictions of persons. We can debate the artistic preferences of representational art versus impressionistic art versus "cartoon" art, but I see no qualitative difference among the various forms.

The Bible is quite silent on art. The second commandment appears to proscribe sculpture; but then at other times men were commanded to make sculpture (the bronze snake, the cherubs over the ark of the covenant). Some interpret the 2nd commandment as forbidding all representational art including photographs, but this position is taken by only a small minority. I see no guidance in the Bible on caricatural art.

Adventists tend to eschew permanent displays of representational art in the churches (i.e. no crosses), but other religious art (felts, photos, illustrations for books) has long been part of our tradition. The most widely circulated edition of Steps to Christ from my youth had cover art depicting an image of Jesus standing next to the UN office tower in Manhattan.

When it comes to art, be it visual or auditory (i.e. music), I see no Biblical texts extolling the virtue of hymns over the "praise chorus" nor do I see any Biblical texts favouring one form of visual art over another.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I don't like the big screens in the sanctuaries.  They give me the feeling that I should be bringing popcorn along to enjoy the entertainment.

[Aliensanctuary]

Our local church quite often has DVD's for sermons when the pastor is at another of his five churches. Lately, each of the very few members are responsible for taking a turn presenting the Sabbath church service. If there is no piano player present, the music is dispensed with. Too bad, the several local churches have shriveled up and are all on life support.

I suspect that someday church services will all be off-the-grid and in secret.

[JoeMo]

8 hours ago, Aliensanctuary said:

I suspect that someday church services will all be off-the-grid and in secret.

They already are in several countries around the world.

[JoeMo]

8 hours ago, Aliensanctuary said:

Lately, each of the very few members are responsible for taking a turn presenting the Sabbath church service. If there is no piano player present, the music is dispensed with. Too bad, the several local churches have shriveled up and are all on life support.

The local church I usually attend has 25 people in attendance on a "busy" Sabbath.  We haven't had a pastor at all ever for the past 5 years.  We're more of a big "small group" than a congregation.  We meet in a small ballroom of the Comedy Works ("a funny place to go to church") where there in no piano; so our music is usually acoustic guitars.  We all take turns leading the lesson/sermon, doing music, and bringing a healthy breakfast.  We sit at linen-covered tables instead of in pews. I also attend a "real" church (about 300 members, complete with pastors, 10-piece praise band, with several screens, tons of kid's SS classes but only a smattering of adult classes, outreach, cliques, committees to nominate the nominating committee, infighting, etc.) on occasion.

 I overwhelmingly prefer the small intimate setting, where we can do real Bible study without the political and denominational agenda.  It feels more like family.  I believe that the original churches in apostolic times were more like small groups than megachurches.

[Aliensanctuary]

Jesus taught both huge crowds, small groups, and one-on-one. He had something worthwhile to talk about, though:

Quote

"What is the Kingdom of YHVH?"

I think the smaller, informal churches have more of an impact on their members because it's easier for the quieter people to share their thoughts and feelings. It's better, anyway, to get away from the pomp and circumstance and entertainment of the larger churches and just have a Bible study. I wouldn't count the canned SS lessons as Bible studies, either. Even just reading the Scriptures aloud has its benefits, lacking a formal Bible study or sermon.

Certain books in the OT really should be studied, especially the books of Moses and the Prophets.

I think the mission and focus of all churches and denominations should be, "What is the Kingdom of YHVH?" Otherwise, most, if not all of them, will be spewed out on Judgment Day.

Guitar music might have its place in meetings, especially when the members learn how to sing the parts in harmony. There are some impressive hymns in the hymnbooks, especially in the older ones. I'm thinking of "Once to Every Man and Nation Comes a Moment to Decide.

[Aliensanctuary]

Does anyone recall the song "Road to Zion" by Petra? The hymn "My Hope is Built on Nothing Less" can be sung to that tune also.

[Narcah]

I am in favor of a new hymnal. My family is going through the hymnal for worship morning and evening, and there are quite of a number of songs that should have never made it in there. ?