Coulter ridicules widows of 9/11

[Dr. Shane]

The thing about water is that we are not running out of it. There is as much water on the earth today as there was during the flood. The problem is only getting it where we want it. Waste water, which is flushed down the toilet, is easy to recapture, treat and cycle back into the water supply. There is absolutely no need to be concerned about flushing too much water down the toilet.

More efficient ways of irrigating agricultural property would be much more productive in conserving water in dry, desert areas where it is a limitted resource.

Regardless of the facts, the issue demonstrates that when liberals get on a bandwagon, they have no issue forcing others to live as they think everyone should. So should the day come when an "angel of light" appears and convinces the world to pass a Sunday law, we have no reason to believe that the well-intentioned liberals of today are going to object based on civil rights.

[Nan]

Shane there may be as much water on earth as there was during the flood, but there are a lot more people to use it, and who require a lot more water - as in the toilet flushing compared to the 'dig a hole in the yard' practice. If you live in a city where there is no concern how much water you consume, you live in a different environment from most on earth.

Recycling is a great idea - would you be happy to drink recycled sewage? There is quite a discussion going on in this country in one city which wants to do that very thing.

In Sydney, new housing developments have to incorporate infrastructure which will recycle a lot of water and collect storm water. Private citizens are encouraged to have rainwater tanks to add to their supply. Is this 'liberal politics'? No, it is driven by the necessity of dwindling water supplies for the city (FACT) and erratic rainfall. Sure we could build more dams on more rivers and deprive other areas of the water they need. And reducing the flow through the rivers destroys much of the normal life in them.

There is a place for personal responsibility on this earth. I have wondered what that text in Revelation that talks about God destroying those who destroy the earth, means for our age.

[Dr. Shane]

There are already cities that recycle sewage water into the drinking water supply. It works fine. It is no different than taking water from a river that has been polutted by industry and livestock, treating and using it.

There is no "dwindling" water supply but that is typical liberal rhetoric devised to scare people into adopting their morality. This extreame end of the political spectrum uses the same tactics as the other extreame end. There is a shifting (not dwindling) of the water supply. A more practical solution would be for the people to move to where the water is. Coastal areas can secure an unlimitted source of drinking water by building desalazation plants. Free trade agreements allow agricultural products to be imported affordably which decreases a nation's need to use water to irrigate dry land - which is the largest use of fresh water.

[Bravus]

There is definitely a dwindling supply of clean, fresh water. That is a fact. That is partly due to the massively increased human population polluting water and using up groundwater, and partly due to climate change melting glaciers that used to store much of the world's fresh water. (Doesn't matter for the purposes of the water discussion whether the climate change is human-caused: it's a fact that it's happening.) Tes, there's just as much total water on earth, but a much smaller fraction of it is fresh... and without massive amounts of energy for desalination, salt water isn't much good to us. In my opinion, the occasional second flush is a small price to pay (and treating the sewage to drinkable standards is itself not free in terms of energy costs).

Anyway, we seem to have got far afield of MS Coulter. WHo apparently suggested that Senator Murtha is an appropriate target for murder, recently. IMO, the media simply needs to ignore her and stop giving her a platform.

[Dr. Shane]

John Murtha is a Representative in the House of Representatives, not a Senator. (just a little correction)

We use desalination plants in the area I live and we are building more. The water goes through reverse osmosis at the end of the process and comes out of the tap tasting like bottled water. Too bad my local water provider isn't doing it. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> My water comes from the river.

Since I live in a semi-desert area, water conservation is an often talked about topic here. The amount saved by flushing less down the toilet is insignificant compared to the amount used in agriculture. It is just a feel-good law so that legislators can feel good about doing something.

[Neil D]

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Since I live in a semi-desert area, water conservation is an often talked about topic here. The amount saved by flushing less down the toilet is insignificant compared to the amount used in agriculture. It is just a feel-good law so that legislators can feel good about doing something.

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Well, I can see your point...You use so little water and agriculture uses so much for thier crops...

However, if you look at the numbers, there is a lot of "You"s out there...IOWs, there is a lot of human population using at least as much water that you use. And while Agriculture is using roughly 2/3 of the water supply, that is dwindling as our population grows...

Consider the following article from Geoffrey Dabelko, Director of the Environmental Change and Security Project at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars and contributing author of State of the World 2005. He had an internet chat with various people on this subject.

Worldwatch

had this in-depth look at water conflicts around the world and how communities and governments are finding cooperative solutions and preventing conflict.

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[:"green"] Geoffrey Dabelko: First and foremost U.S. citizens and non-citizens alike can examine carefully ways they can reduce their own use of water by using less for some things and finding substitutes for water for other things (dry sanitation etc.). Start at home. Scaling up such conservation is necessary to begin to address water conflict within the United States. One thinks immediately of the dry Southwest where farmers, ranchers, environmentalists, and thirsty city dwellers commonly square off over scarce water. Given that agricultural irrigation is by far the largest user of water, conservation in that sector is a key place to look. One could also fairly say that building cities in the middle of the desert isnít particularly sustainable behavior either.

On the international level, it is critical to support international and regional bodies that facilitate negotiations among states sharing a river basin. The UN, the World Bank, and bilateral commissions are all active in many basins around the world. But it cannot just be the official negotiations that are supported. Key is lending support to civil society groups that are also active in facilitating dialogue and cooperation on the basin level such as the Nile Basin Discourse group. It is the civil society analog to the Nile Basin Initiative, the World Bank facilitated governmental negotiations. And it is important to note that supporting US or European environmental NGOs is not the same as supporting NGOs in developing countries. It is more difficult perhaps to identify these, but direct support to some of these struggling bodies is perhaps even more effective in promoting water management that serves human as well as ecosystem needs. [/]

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[Dr. Shane]

Where I live, agriculture uses more than 2/3 of the water supply. I think bathing even uses more water than flushing the toilet. More water can be saved by changing the shower head than reducing the size of the toilet. I better be careful, they will make that law next.

[Nan]

In this city, they say households use 70% of the water. And the water authorities subsidize the fitting of low-usage shower heads. I had them installed before that incentive arrived. I cannot dictate what my neighbour does. I can change my own actions.

[Bravus]

Thanks for the correction, Shane - I wondered about Murtha's house as I was writing, but had too little time to fact check. Good to know the correct info. Interesting that she so far hasn't (as far as we know) had a little chat with law enforcement about publicly advocating the murder of a sitting member of the House.

[Dr. Shane]

Within a city, households could easily use 70% of the fresh water. The only other users are commercial and industrial use. Gasoline refiners use a lot of water but most industries don't use that much.

However when the amount of water used by cities is compared to the amount used by agriculture in dry areas, agriculture uses many many more of the resources.

This entire issue goes to reinforce the point I was making. We, as Adventists, do not need to just be concerned about the "religious right" enforcing their morals upon us. When liberals believe something is immoral, they use the legislature to force their morality on others that disagree with them too.