2nd Advent In 2027?

[Gregory Matthews]

The SDA, Walter Veith has recently proposed that Christ will return in 2027, if not before that date.  His view have attracted attention.  In a video that lasts for 1.25 hours, Dr. Laurence Turner, examines The claims of Veith and what the Bible teaches about the return of Christ.

See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AyKiEaDeaA&feature=youtu.be

NOTE:  To our visitors, who may not understand what SDAs actually teach, the views of Walter Veith on this subject our outside of normative SDA teachings.

[phkrause]

 Will probably watch this on Sabbath!! Remind me OK?? ?

[pierrepaul]

2027 - why not? It's as good and any other made up date with no basis in fact or logic.

[Kevin H]

Sad that we get caught up in such speculation. I blame most of our church's problems to the 1922 General Conference, here we are finding more victims of that horrible event. 

[timtofly]

On 6/2/2020 at 11:58 AM, pierrepaul said:

2027 - why not? It's as good and any other made up date with no basis in fact or logic.

That would be the end of Satan's 3.5 years.  The Second Coming is sooner than that.  The harvest of souls is right now.  Soon it will end.  A full harvest of all souls, would deny Satan the 3.5 years, that would lengthen the time before the Millennium of Christ on earth.

[JoeMo]

2027 is as good of a guess as any.  The speaker stated early on that tying the second coming precisely to the year 2027 is NOT biblical.  He says around 2027.  Although it is speculative, I agree that - given the signs of the times, the second coming will be between 2027 and 2033.  As horrible as things are now and the pace with which things are deteriorating, I can't see time as going on much past then.

My concern is not so much "when" Jesus returns; it is "will I be ready when Jesus returns".

[pierrepaul]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

As horrible as things are now and the pace with which things are deteriorating,

What evidence is there that things are "horrible" or are "deteriorating"? Life expectancy is at an all time high. Violent crime is at an all-time low. Wars, as a proportion of world population involved or seriously affected, is at an all time low. The percentage of the world population living a middle class lifestyle is at an all time high. The likelihood of a premature death from disease or accident is at an all time low. For much of the population of the world, we are not one bad harvest away from starvation. Public morality in the West has greatly improved over the last 150 years. During the corona-virus shutdown, no one starved. In fact there have been reports that as fat as North Americans are, on average people got even fatter during the shutdown (as if this were possible).

[JoeMo]

On 6/16/2020 at 9:57 AM, pierrepaul said:

What evidence is there that things are "horrible" or are "deteriorating"?

The global economy has shrunk by over 20%, the US is now over $30,000,000,000,000 in debt, U.S is in a trade war with China, the nation is devolving into anarchy, global climate change is melting ice caps and glaciers, other global disasters are increasing, anti-Christian sediment around the world is increasing. Other than that, everything is cool.

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/3/2020 at 12:15 AM, Kevin H said:

Sad that we get caught up in such speculation. I blame most of our church's problems to the 1922 General Conference, here we are finding more victims of that horrible event. 

When we start accepting the trinity, Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Valentine day, the pagan cross (the tave T,) the Greek word stauros cross , means a a stake or post that set upright! You took THEIR NAMES and you did the same thing to Afrikan Americans who was brought here as chattel slaves. When you take a name which is important because it tells you who you are and what you possess. Why did YAHSHUA Said: Our FATHER, which ART in Heaven (hear is the words you refuse to see)! HALLOW or HOLY IS THOU NAME! Don't want to deal this at all, even you have read in Ex 3:15 when HE SAID; This is MY NAME FOREVER! The Europeans changed it to a pagan name and we refuse to talk about it just like we refuse to talk about  systemic racism in this church! If you don't reverence THE FATHER'S NAME that is HOLY you cannot respect people of different color or nationality. Satan has made us the laughing stock because we claim to know the truth and do not realize how naked, wretched we have become. These young people of different colors and ethnicity do not go to church but they are uniting the world. The Bible said a child will lead the way!

Many do not go to church because of fakness that is in all the churches, mosques, synagogues you name it, it is fake! Many want to fight over each other politics that has nothing do with our soul salvation. What profit a man to gain the world and to loose his soul? We idolize the Sabbath that we don't keep really holy than we do our CREATORS! We keep making up stuff that the Bible don't say at all. I have asked all here to prove in the Bible that there will be a Sabbath vs Sunday struggle. No one has come and provided Scriptures. No one can mark a day nor can Satan you and I can attempt to change time but you can't nether can you change YAHWEH'S Laws. You can only break them and when you do you have death and transgression at your door.

YAHWEH has had enough, now some of us are predicting time. How many went on about what the papacy wrote in a few words about the Jewish shabat and not about YAHWEH Sabbath; there is a difference! Shabat is a verb that means to desist in the Commandment it said Shabbath in Hebrew! The word in the Commandments is nûach and not shabat that is in Gen. Because YAHWEH was showing what you need to understand. There are two English verbs just like nûach and shabat are verbs. It is the 2nd verb rest that is related to nûach! It means "to remain," from Latin restare to "stand back, be left," "to stand," make or be firm." Here is the true meaning of nûach; "to settle down,""to dwell", "to stay", "let fall in place," " let alone," "withdraw,"  "give comfort." YAHWEH change up the word and we did not even know it! To the Law and Testimony Isaiah said, and if they speak not according to this word there is no light in any thing, anyone who tries to change YAHWEH'S WORD! The pope did not get his time in glory yet and especially not about a day. It is about false worship we all do against THE FATHER and HIS HOLY NAME. You say what you want, let someone take away your name and out goes your dignity! If you think HE is going to let anyone keep messing with HIS NAME THAT IS HOLY and deal with HIS POWER, GLORY, MAJESTY, DIVINITY and DIGNITY; you all got something coming and you are not going to like it!

The Time of Trouble is for the wicked and to shake a loose the great multitude from the grasp of the papacy. Then those angels will be release from prison the last five months and they are told to torture only the wicked but not to killed them. Read Chapter Nine of Revelation! Tells who their king is in both Greek and Hebrew, Satan the destroyer! The wicked wants to die but can't until after the five month with is the last of the Time of Trouble. Then the beast will arrive because the 144,000 has finish their work and will scatter in safe places that YAHWEH have for them like HE had for Elijah! It will not be long now! Young people are becoming vegans, they are more health conscious and they are leading the way. You will not stop this worldwide movement it is control by YAHWEH and as I said again, HE HAS HAD ENOUGH!

HAPPY SABBATH AND GET READY, YOU HAVE NOT SEEN NOTHING YET, IT IS ONLY THE BEGINNING!

[dgrimm60]

HEY  ALL

 the  main thing  that we need to  do  is  have  a  knowing  relationship with GOD ====

when  these  things  happen  look up to  heaven and  Jesus====

dgrimm60

[stinsonmarri]

8 hours ago, dgrimm60 said:

HEY  ALL

 the  main thing  that we need to  do  is  have  a  knowing  relationship with GOD ====

when  these  things  happen  look up to  heaven and  Jesus====

dgrimm60

You cannot know HIM unless you obey HIM. Now, you know we will find in any excuse and think it is going to fly. So, how do  know anyone here on earth? What does getting to know mean? I know Pastor Gregory Matthew and we have a relationship and it is great! But what I must do is to respect Pastor Matthew, for two main reasons, he is my neighbor and friend! He is also the Moderator, now what is that? He assist us in being respectful to each other, not using profane language, not making certain remarks etc. Guess what, those are the laws to comment in this forum! So actually it is to keep the law and to keep  the peace! YAHSHUA says if you love ME, then keep MY COMMANDMENT then you and I can have a relationship. Now, that is simple! But we do is to try and dress up the words without the obligation! We think we can love without what the relationship requires! Well, it will never happen here on earth and certainly not in Heaven. YAHWEH does not change, HIS NAME IS HOLY, HE CHOOSES HIS NAME, and not any of us, we do not have the right or the power! We are created beings and HIS SON called us all Adam and not the word man. That's men ego, thinking he is superior over female, you are not. YAHWEH will not let you! All I can say is a lot of you will be so surprise when you don't make into the kingdom. What you will do is meet your antediluvian friends who thought it wouldn't rain and it did not on that it really flooded the entire earth! You know the Bible says, how mindful man is to think you are in control of changing HIS NAME. WRONG! Satan said he wanted be above the north and be like THE MOST HIGH as if he could! So, he attempting to change HIS NAME and uses those who fall under his deceitful spell to do it. That's being a puppet just like the serpent in the Garden of Eden. See here the thing, you are not worshiping THE MOST HIGH, you are worshiping Mr. Lucifer! Counterfeit holy day, and counterfeit name and YAHWEH does wink at our ignorance until we hear and know the true on its on merits.

Neither shall ye profane MY HOLY NAME; but I will be HALLOWED (or HOLY) among the children of IsraEL: I AM YAHWEH which HALLOW ( MAKE you HOLY) you! Lev 22:32

 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for MY NAME'S sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. Mat 19:29

And ye shall be hated of all men for MY NAME'S sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mark 13:13  

  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In MY NAME shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mar_16:17

And hast borne, and hast patience, and for MY NAME'S sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast MY NAME, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. Rev 2:3, 13  

 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied MY NAME. Rev 3:8 

I don't see any s or plural on the word name, do you?

BLESS YOUR HOLY NAME, YAHWEH FOREVER!
 

[dgrimm60]

STINSONMARRI

to  have  a  knowing  relationship  is  to  have  constant communication  ==== if  a person  does  not have

that  you are  just  causal friends=====causal friends  do  not  have  a  personal or constant communication

dgrimm60

[JoeMo]

Been working on getting into the habit of praying when I wake up at night.  The more time I spend meditating on Jesus' power and majesty, and being amazed at how much He must love (agape) me in spite of what a @$#%^*&! I am, I can't help but put all my trust in Him to bring me home when the time comes.

[stinsonmarri]

On 5/31/2020 at 8:38 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

The SDA, Walter Veith has recently proposed that Christ will return in 2027, if not before that date.  His view have attracted attention.  In a video that lasts for 1.25 hours, Dr. Laurence Turner, examines The claims of Veith and what the Bible teaches about the return of Christ.

See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AyKiEaDeaA&feature=youtu.be

NOTE:  To our visitors, who may not understand what SDAs actually teach, the views of Walter Veith on this subject our outside of normative SDA teachings.

No so much our teaching but what the Bible says. That's a fact no one knows the time but THE FATHER!

Happy Sabbath!

 

[paultemp]

The estimated time of the end can be established on the basis of different sources: Daniel 12:11-12, the cosmic week idea, the final jubilee year and the final sabbatical year, as well as the Spirit of Prophecy. All these sources seem to agree and lead to the same year 2027.

 

If the presented here end-time estimation is correct, and the year 2027 is indeed going to be the last one in the 6000-year-long history of our world, then the final sabbatical period of seven years has already started in 2020 when the World Health Organization declared the outbreak of the pandemic regarded as the first stage in the plan known as the New World Order and the Great Reset. It will be followed by the digitalization of the world, a cashless society, enforcement of the false day of worship, and persecution of God's Commandments-keeping people.

Nevertheless, I believe Prof. Walter Veith and Pastor David Gates, are right in suggesting that it shouldn't be our intention to persuade anyone that we can set the year 2027 as a definite and unquestionable time for Christ’s return. We can't do this because although the presented here arguments seem to be convincing, the advice from the Spirit of Prophecy prevents us from suggesting a distinct and definite date, or from being certain that the suggested end-time estimation is free from errors. However, on the basis of my in-depth study and prayerful analysis of the Bible, Spirit of Prophecy, and other sources dealing with the same subject, my conscience is prompting me to share a sensible conclusion that it is possible for the final events to take place between years 2024 and 2027. I feel compelled to join other voices supporting the same idea because, if it is true, then it is now the last time to start preparing. If we neglect this warning and the current short time given by God, then at the time of the Sunday law enforcement and outpouring of the Holy Spirit it might be too late!

The final events, such as the Sunday law enforcement and the latter rain, may take place earlier than we thought leaving us a very short time to prepare for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the time of trouble. If the final events don't start in 2024 we won't lose anything but if they do then those of us who are "sleeping" risk losing everything if we don't wake up now and start redeeming the time every day as never before with constant fervent prayers, seeking the Lord in His Word, and leading other sinners to Christ and His truth!

 

1. DANIEL 12

The typical dates assigned by Adventist interpreters to the two long prophetic time periods (1290 and 1335 years) found in Daniel 12:11-12, are 508-1798 for the 1290 days/years and 508-1843 for the 1335-day/year period. 

However, these dates don’t seem to be very convincing because Daniel 12 is an epilogue for the entire book of Daniel and clearly refers to the end time, resurrection, and second advent. Therefore these two last prophetic periods should be linked with the final events. We can see this idea in Daniel 12 in the specific words used there. Expressions such as “time of trouble” (the final persecution of God’s people), “your people shall be delivered”, “those who sleep shall awake”, and "seal the book until the time of the end" clearly tell us that this chapter goes beyond the year 1843 reaching the very end-time events and the second advent. According to Strong's concordance, the word "end" used here refers to extremity, border, final, and edge. Therefore, the time periods found in Daniel 12:11-12 should refer to the end of the world's history and not merely the year 1843. In addition, Daniel was already given the explanation related to the years 1798 and 1844 in the previous chapters. He didn’t need merely a repetition of basically the same prophecy. Obviously, he wanted to know more about the end of the last horrible persecution of God’s people and about the time of Christ’s return.

‌Adventist interpreters suggest 508 AD as the starting date for both prophetic periods of Daniel 12:11-12. At that time the question of supremacy between the Catholic and Arian branches of Christianity was settled in favour of Catholicism by the subjection of the Arian tribes by Clovis, king of the Franks. Using the day-for-a-year rule (Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6), this makes the 1290 days (years) end in 1798 (at the same time as the 1260 years). If we start the 1335 days (years) at the same time (508 AD), it brings us to 1843, very near the year 1844 which is the end of the 2300 years of Daniel 8:14.

The truth, however, is that the event claimed to be the beginning of those prophetic periods doesn't seem to match the description of the starting point because at that time the “daily sacrifice” was supposed to be “taken away”. The subjection of the Arian tribes by Clovis, king of the Franks as a starting date for Catholic supremacy doesn’t sound like a very convincing match for “abolishing the daily sacrifice”.

A much more meaningful and significant date than 508 AD for the time of abolishing the daily sacrifices is the year 597 BC. According to the SDA Bible Commentary and numerous other sources, in 597 BC Nebuchadnezzar's invaded Jerusalem and plundered the temple (2 Kings 24). Shortly before the arrival of the Babylonian army, prophet Jeremiah removed the ark from the temple and hid it in one of the caves (2 Maccabees 2:4-8). In addition, we also read that Nebuchadnezzar "carried all Jerusalem into exile”, which must have included all priests, because “only the poorest people of the land were left” (2 Kings 24:14).

Since, because of Israel's continual sin, the temple was plundered and deprived of the ark, God's presence and priests it practically seized to exist. For this reason, the daily sacrifices came to an end. 

‌Now, having established 597 BC as the start date for the first long prophetic period of 1290 years (Daniel 12:11), we must now add to it 1290 years to set the end date of the same period. As a result, we have the year 692 AD. Can this date provide an important event that could be described as the “abomination of desolation” and fit the definition given in Daniel 12:11?

Well, when we accept the year 597 BC as the starting date of 1290 years, then the closing date of 692 AD also matches the description of Daniel 12:11. Various reliable historical sources confirm that the year 692 AD is associated with the completion of constructing the Dome of the Rock (>, >, >). This fact perfectly fits the description provided by Daniel who defines that event as another "abomination of desolation" (Daniel 12:11) because a pagan temple was built on the holy site of God’s temple.

Now, since we have dates for the first prophetic period established, let us move to Daniel 12:12 and deal with the second period.

Immediately after Daniel was told about 1290 days/years (Daniel 12:11), another long prophetic period of 1335 days/years was added to the previous one: “Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days” (Daniel 12:12).

Daniel was told that “blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of 1,335 days (years)” as if to suggest that we are to wait for another 1335 years to reach the blessed time of Christ’s return.

What date do we get when we “wait” another 1335 years from the end of the 1290-year period?

When we add 1335 years to 692 AD, it leads us to the year 2027 AD!

‌This interpretation is more convincing because it fits the end-time context and the scenario of Daniel 12 much better:

1) The daily sacrifice is abolished (597 BC - the Temple was plundered after the Ark of Covenant was removed from it).

2) The abomination of desolation follows 1,290 years later (the Dome of Rock build on the temple ground in 692 AD).

3) After the Abomination (692 AD) we must wait 1,335 more years for the “blessing” leading to the year 2027 and the deliverance of the persecuted Christians, the return of Christ, and the resurrection of all true believers, including Daniel).

The fact that the same year 2027 can be established on the basis of not one but three separate sources (the jubilee and sabbatical years, Daniel 12:11-12, and the Spirit of Prophecy), should finally wake us up and make us very happy as it increases the probability that this time the return of the Lord is very close indeed! If the year 2027 is correct and if it refers to the second advent then we can expect that the final events should start taking place very soon.

 

2. THE COSMIC WEEK IDEA

The idea known as the “cosmic week” refers to the belief that the end of the world should take place after six thousand years of the world’s history. According to this theory, each day of creation week represents a thousand years (2 Peter 3:8). Since God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh day, similarly, this world is to exist for six thousand years, followed by one thousand years of the earth’s rest and the simultaneous heavenly rest of those who are going to be saved. In the Bible, it is known as the Millennium (Revelation 20:5) and it refers to the final Jubilee and the Sabbatical year of Leviticus 25:2-4 during which the earth will rest uncultivated.

J. N. Andrews and other Seventh-Day Adventist pioneers, including Ellen White, believed in the cosmic week idea. They also linked the cosmic week idea with the sabbatical and jubilee years. Also Ellen White repeatedly stated that this world is to exist for six thousand years followed by the Millenium.

 

3. SABBATICAL YEARS AND JUBILEE YEARS 

‌The Cosmic Week idea is closely related to the final sabbatical year and the final jubilee year that are to take place at the end of 6000 years of world history. Leviticus 25 ordains a Sabbath year (one in every seventh year) (Lev. 25:1-7), and a jubilee year, (one in every fiftieth year) (Lev. 25:8-17). ‌In the Sabbath year, each field was to rest uncultivated every seventh year. In a jubilee year, all leased or mortgaged lands were to be returned to their original owners, and all slaves and bonded labourers were to be set free (Lev. 25:10).

‌In the period of the world history of 6000 years (from the fall of Adam till the return of Christ) there are 120 jubilees (120 x 50-year periods = 6000). There were 80 jubilees in the 4000 years of the Old Testament and there are 40 jubilees in the 2000-year period of the New Testament. The last of the 80 jubilees of the Old Testament period was announced by Christ at the beginning of His ministry in 27 AD (Luke 4:18-19😞

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me because He has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

According to The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, “the 'acceptable year of the Lord' is reminiscent of the year of jubilee, when slaves were freed, debts were cancelled, and entailed land was turned back to its original owner (Leviticus 25:10; 15,24).”

Jesus started His ministry at about 30 years of age (according to the Jewish calendar) and was crucified at about 33 1/2. This corresponds to our calendar date of 27 AD. Because in 27 AD, Christ entered the last Jubilee overlapping from the Old Testament period of 4000 years (it was the 80th Jubilee of the OT and 27 AD was the 4000-year mark in time), we need to add 40 Jubilees (40 x 50-year periods = 2000 years). Therefore, the final jubilee year (at the end of 6000 years of the world’s history) should take place in the year 2027 (27 + 2000 = 2027)!

Ellen White stated that after Christ’s return, which will take place at the end of six thousand years, the next stage will be “the jubilee, when the land should rest” (Early Writings, 35). It means that the earth will rest uncultivated for thousand years while all the saved will spend the same period of time in heaven.

If the above calculation is correct, then the last sabbatical period of 7 years has already started in 2020, and if this world is going to last 6000 years, the last Sabbatical year of world history should be the year 2027. The same year is the last year of the Jubilee. It is significant that the virus responsible for the Covid-19 pandemic was first identified in Wuhan, China, in December 2019 and that the World Health Organization declared that outbreak a pandemic on 11 March 2020, thus introducing the unprecedented time of the first stage in the plan of globalization of the world. 

 

4. THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY  

In her writings, Ellen White repeatedly stated that this world was to exist for 6000 years. For instance, in the book Patriarchs and Prophets (Chapter 29—Satan’s Enmity against the Law), she wrote: “For six thousand years Satan has struggled to maintain possession of the earth. Now God’s original purpose in its creation is accomplished. The saints of the Most High shall take the kingdom.”

Since the Spirit of Prophecy tells us that this world, in its sinful state and under the rulership of Satan (from the fall of Adam till the second coming of Christ), was to last 6000 years, we need to find the beginning of this period of time. The next statement (found in the book Confrontation, p. 32.1) seems to be the most helpful in providing the required time setting:

“Christ, in the wilderness of temptation (it took place immediately after His baptism, in 27 AD), stood in Adam's place to bear the test he failed to endure. Here Christ overcame on the sinner's behalf, four thousand years after Adam turned his back upon the light of his home.”

We are told here that from the fall of Adam till the temptation of Christ (in 27 AD) in the wilderness (immediately after Christ’s baptism) there were four thousand years. At that time Christ was 27 years old. Therefore, in order to figure out the end of the six-thousand-year period we must simply add two thousand to the twenty-seven years (the age of Christ at that time). As a result, we have the year 2027 which is the sum of 4000 years from the fall of Adam till Christ’s temptation in the wilderness, plus 2000 years to make the 6000-year period of world history between the fall of Adam till Christ’s return!

That, however, doesn’t necessarily mean we can set the exact year of Christ’s return. We still are not able to do this because we can’t be sure whether by “four thousand years” Sister White meant a precise or an approximate time. For this reason, we can’t set a definitive or exact time of the end. Nevertheless, based on the above statement we can draw a reasonable conclusion that Christ's return in 2027 is possible, or that we may at least expect the end-time events around the year 2027, meaning that the end-time events can still take place earlier or later.

 

MEANING OF MATTHEW 24:36

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone” (Matthew 24:36).

The word "knows" (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32) has been translated from the Greek word "eido" [G1492] which is used here in the perfect tense. The perfect tense describes something that was true or completed in the past, was still presently true at the time it is spoken, but which will not necessarily be true in the future. Therefore, it can’t be regarded as an absolute statement meaning that no one will ever know. As a matter of fact, it would contradict numerous scriptures that clearly state that the Bride of Christ will know and will the time of His coming and will not be taken by surprise (Amos 3:7, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5, Hebrews 10:25, Revelation 3:3).

Furthermore, the word "eido" can be translated as "to make known". Paul uses "eido" in this way in 1 Corinthians 2:2 when he says “I have determined not to make known to you nothing except Christ crucified.” If this is the way Christ used the word "eido" in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32, then He could mean that neither Him, the angels, nor the believers will make known or declare the exact day and hour of the second coming but only the Father will declare or announce it. Accepting this understanding of Matthew 24:36 we can conclude that true believers can and will know the approximate time (maybe even year and season) of Christ's return but the precise time (the day and the hour) will be announced (make known) by God the Father.

This assumption has been confirmed by the Spirit of Prophecy: “The sea boiled like a pot and cast out stones upon the land. And... God spoke the day and the hour of Jesus’ coming...” (Early Writings, p. 34).

In 1865 James White wrote a booklet titled "The Second Advent" and on page 18 he explained how he understood the words of Christ written in Matthew 24:36: “Many hastily conclude from this text that nothing whatever may be ascertained relative to the period of the second advent. But, in taking this position, they greatly err... Christ will know of the period of his second advent to this world. The holy angels... will know of the time of this closing event of salvation. And so will the waiting, watching people of God understand. An old English version of the passage reads, 'But that day and hour no man maketh known, neither the angels which are in Heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.' This is the correct reading, according to several of the ablest critics of the age. The word know is used in the same sense here that it is by Paul, in 1 Corinthians 2:2: 'For I determined not to know [make known] anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.' Men will not make known the day and hour, angels will not make it known, neither will the Son; but the Father will make it known.”

On the basis of the above, we can draw a conclusion that God’s people living before the second advent should and will know the approximate time of Christ’s return before it happens. However, since shortly before the second advent, God Himself will announce its exact time (day and hour), it seems obvious that God’s people may only know the estimated, rough, imprecise, or inexact time of Christ’s return, maybe even year, but not the day and the hour.

There is, therefore, nothing wrong if someone links the final events with the year 2027 on the basis of the above quotes by the Spirit of Prophecy.

 

CONCLUSION

If the presented here end-time estimation is correct, and the year 2027 is indeed going to be the last one in the 6000-year-long history of our world, then the final sabbatical period of seven years has already started in 2020 when the World Health Organization declared the outbreak of the pandemic regarded as the first stage in the plan known as the New World Order and the Great Reset. It will be followed by the digitalization of the world, a cashless society, enforcement of the false day of worship, and persecution of God's Commandments-keeping people.

Nevertheless, I believe Prof. Walter Veith and Pastor David Gates, are right in suggesting that it shouldn't be our intention to persuade anyone that we can set the year 2027 as a definite and unquestionable time for Christ’s return. We can't do this because although the presented here arguments seem to be convincing, the advice from the Spirit of Prophecy prevents us from suggesting a distinct and definite date, or from being certain that the suggested end-time estimation is free from errors. However, on the basis of my in-depth study and prayerful analysis of the Bible, Spirit of Prophecy, and other sources dealing with the same subject, my conscience is prompting me to share a sensible conclusion that it is possible for the final events to take place between years 2024 and 2027. I feel compelled to join other voices supporting the same idea because, if it is true, then it is now the last time to start preparing. If we neglect this warning and the current short time given by God, then at the time of the Sunday law enforcement and outpouring of the Holy Spirit it might be too late!

The final events, such as the Sunday law enforcement and the latter rain, may take place earlier than we thought leaving us a very short time to prepare for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the time of trouble. If the final events don't start in 2024 we won't lose anything but if they do then those of us who are "sleeping" risk losing everything if we don't wake up now and start redeeming the time every day as never before with constant fervent prayers, seeking the Lord in His Word, and leading other sinners to Christ and His truth!

https://www.salvation1.com/articles/can-christ-return-in-2027/

[Kevin H]

There are different ways of translating the words, and languages are living and change. Some of the translations show somewhat word for word translations, while others show other possible word for word translations. Other Bibles try to translate the ideas to how the ancient world would have understood what was said. There is overlap between these two, as well as a fair amount of paraphrasing, while strict paraphrases are not really considered translations, but even they have a fair amount of translation. Also, there are translations that try to get the rhythms of the text, or the poetic structures, or repetitions of sounds. All of these have roles in understanding the text.

 

In Jesus' day there were about 3 textual families identified by scholars: The Palestinian text in which the most complete and well known are the dead sea scrolls. The Egyptian text, in which the most complete and well known is the Septuagint. And the Babylonian text in which the most complete and well known is the Masoretic Text.

 

The numbers for the ages in the chronologies are so old and has been updated so much over the history that they are some of the hardest to translate. In Jesus’ day the popular adding up of the ages was approaching the 7,000 year around then, and from this some Rabbis made a connection to the thousands of years and the days of creation week. Specifically, they saw the 7,000 year starting at the time we see as 31 AD. When nothing happened then, they looked at some of the other possible translations, and the Babylonian texts could be translated to make the world as young as 4,000 years in the first century, and thus moving the 7,000 year into the future. While we don’t find Christians using the 7,000 year for his ministry, there were probably Jews who did, and some wanted to get as far away from Jesus as possible, so now we are saying that the world is “about” 6,000 years. Even so, translators say that you can translate the texts to spread from around 6,000 to 10,000 years just from the numbers alone.

 

Now, an additional problem is that we treat the genealogies as, first of all, families, and second a very strict father to son. Now we can assume that most of our genealogies are in the families, but in the ancient world genealogies could also be used to list things like people holding a position, if they were related to each other or not. As I said, while there may be some of this in the Bible, we can assume that most of the Bible is family descent. But there are two other issues: First, it was not until the rise of Greece that genealogies started to get strictly father to son. Before then, genealogies would focus on the most important and skip generations. The second is often is history, a first born son is named after his paternal grandfather. Thus you get generations of two names alternating among several generations. But in the genealogies the two names only appear once.

 

Now, while the ancient world did have cycles that were seen as equivalent; for example in ancient Egypt a “day” could either apply to the 24 hour cycle of the sun, or the annual flooding of the Nile. We find the Hebrew cycles in Leviticus 23, 25 and here and there in Deuteronomy. Now, while we find in this the day-year principle, we do NOT find the day- thousand year principle that the rabbis used to see the 7,000 year being the time of the Messiah (again in what became the year 31 AD and the re-calculation to where now we say 6,000 years). People use verses that say that a thousand years to the Lord is like a day and a day like a thousand years. But these texts are talking about the relationship of God to time. The verse does not say “Oh, Moses made a mistake in Leviticus 23, 25 and Deuteronomy, so we need to correct his horrible mistake and add to what he said a day-thousand year cycle as well.”

 

Some churches are very strict in their closeness to 6,000 year age to the earth. Seventh-day Adventist leaders have put more emphases on the “about” 6,000 years, and can be quite flexible with the “about”. Since the youngest we can get from the Septuagint  is 7,000, we have a number of leaders who like that date. But also, since the numbers can be understood as from 6,000 to 10,000 this is where most fit, but among those who have joined the “Adventist Theological Society” where they have to sign that they believe that the earth is “about” 6,000 years. When I was at the Seminary, some of these who later formed the ATS would go back as far as 21,000 years. Other creationists, both in and out of Adventism have gone back to more like 60,000 years, but this was seen as going too far back for the professors at the seminary who would take 7,000 to 21,000 to be included in the “about” 6,000 years. I don’t have any particular heartache, I just say that the people listed in Genesis were real people, most likely a family genealogy, and that history did not go so long as to forget who these people were.

 

As for Mrs. White. In classes it was mentioned that most of her comments were just using 4,000 or 6,000 years as a general overview of the great controversy, and while I have not seen this for myself, in lectures as a few different Adventist colleges it was pointed out that in her manuscripts she was not consistent in the exact numbers and that her editors changed all the dates for around the time of Jesus to read “4,000” years and now “6,000” years. What went beyond mentioning was being shown an early quote that sounded more “6,000” yearish, but as she got older and was editing her writings into Patriarchs and Prophets, she came across this quote (and even the quote itself could be debatable as to how much it should be seen as a quote for 6,000 years) but she crossed through the statement and initialed her cross out. And while at Andrews, for a class we were sent to the White estate to read this for ourselves (sadly after 30 some years I don’t remember the source) but she had written an article where she downplays the 6,000 years but tells us that what ever age we take for the age of the earth, to make sure that it is fair to scripture. (Due to this article is why some of our professors picked the low possibility of the Septuagint of 7,000 years).

 

Now, I am concerned with the 7,000 year theory on two accounts. First, as I mentioned, it is taking some texts out of context, especially in rejection of Leviticus 23, 25 and the cycles of Deuteronomy. In these chapters God tells us the cycles we can use on the Bible. This basing on words being taken out of context at the rejection of where the Bible tells us the cycles, is a preparation for how we will accept Satan’s quoting of scripture when he comes claiming to be Christ.

 

Second, and may I refer you to the essay “The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy” in the SDABC vol 4 (Now there is a weak point in how it closes with what looks a bit like replacement theology) but it correctly points out that the prophecies all had local possible application, so that each generation either has the chance of being the last generation, or that it would not be too many generations in the future where God could have set up the kingdom. At Atlantic Union College, each Bible class required a fresh reading and a fresh paper on this esay, and then we would study the section of the Bible in how the Lord could have come then. The Bible gave two possible methods for spreading the gospel. One way is in how the land of Israel would be the tool, and the other is how exile could be the tool. I call these two potentials as “Land Theology” and “Exile Theology” or we can say “Land Eschatology” and “Exile Eschatology.”

 

The land promised to Abraham was quite literally the center of the world until the age of sea (and of course in recent times air) navigation. It was the major intersection for the trade routes between Europe, Asia and Africa. It is also where the geography, biology and meteorology of these three (and the Arabian desert) all meet and compete. I won’t go into the details here, but the terms “Milk and Honey” did not mean to the ancient world what it means for us today. They were geographical terms, milk focused on desert and hard times, honey or preserved foods for rich farming land, and also dealt with the wide variety of geography, biology and weather. Wanting things to be more of “honey” and less of “milk” the Canaanites formed superstitions that degraded themselves, and made that piece of property one of, if not the most, dangerous place on earth. The Hebrews were to make this all important intersection safe. In trusting in God the better weather would prevail, not by superstitions and actions, but through trust in God. As the caravans passed through and saw how safe it became, and the strange simple religion of these people, and God blessing them, the stories would spread through out the world. Nations would come to Israel for the gospel. Some accept and others reject, and these could have lead to the kingdom of God being set up.

 

Now, if the Hebrews were not faithful, God would allow curses to occure, including times of either the more Arabian droughts, or over rain for mildew to make the land more milk than honey. If nothing else worked they would go into exile. In exile they were to share with their neighbors their unfaithfulness and God’s faithfulness, and thus spread the gospel. If faithful the exile was to end in a second great exodus lead by the Messiah.

 

This did not happen in Babylon, so they returned in a lackluster return for another 70 weeks of years of land theology/land eschatology to prepare for the Messiah. Some of the texts, such as in the end of Isaiah that we apply to heaven, but still does not quite fit, such as living to old ages and not dying young, but still dying were things God wanted to do for them over the time that Daniel applies to the70 weeks of years. When Jesus told us to “go ye into all the world” it was again using exile theology/eschatology (and as mentioned above, starting with the age of navigation, using the sea and now the air as well, Land theology/eschatology no longer fits reality. But we in our exile share our wonderful God with our neighbors and this exile will end in the wonderful exodus to the true promised land when Jesus comes to take us home.)

 

Now, God, in these two possibilities, makes a oneness of his foreknowledge, yet working with our free will. If we picture God waiting for 7,000 years to pass, we loose touch with how God wanted to use his people so that he could have come long err this. Yet on the other hand, as Hebrews 11 tells us (and one theory for Hebrews was dealing with the great disappointment of 70 AD, with expecting Jesus come come around the time of the fall of Jerusalem) But that all these people did not receive the promise (how the Lord could have come in their day) for something even better, that we can join them in the promise.

I hope you can find this useful!

[paultemp]

In March 2020, Prof Walter Veith delivered a video presentation in which he suggested, on the basis of the quotes from the Spirit of Prophecy, that the end-time events may take place around the year 2027. However, he repeatedly stated that it was not his intention to set an exact year of the second coming of Christ but to share his belief that this time the end is truly very close. Inspired by the recent events and signs of the times he decided to find out if the Spirit of Prophecy can provide us any help in answering the question of when we should expect Christ’s return. According to Prof Veith, the year 2027 is not a precise time as there is no proof for this and even if the calculation is right the Lord may add to this date or even make it shorter. It is, therefore, possible that around that year we may expect the fulfilment of the last events or at least the beginning of the final events.
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Based on decades of research, Professor Walter Veith shares evidence about the united global effort that is wielding control over world events to bring about a new world order, great reset, and world government. And this is not a conspiracy theory, but an undeniable true fact confirmed by countless reliable sources.
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As expected, after Prof Veith had delivered his video presentation suggesting that it is possible that according to the Spirit of Prophecy texts the end time events could take place around the year 2027, immediately the opposing voices were raised condemning him for his attempt.
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Good examples are the articles written by Laurence Turner representing the Trans-European Division (TED) of the Seventh Day Adventist Church; Loren Seibold (Adventist Today), a very controversial author who in July 2020 delivered a sarcastic article titled “Our Conspiracists, and Why We Love Them”, or Elias Brasil de Souza (director of the Biblical Research Institute) who in April 2020 published a similar article “The Apocalyptic Fiction in Times of Covid-19”. Also, Mark Finley in his sermon titled “Preparing For the Crisis in End Times” (24) condemned those who link the second advent with the year 2027.

All of them directly or indirectly seem to address the video presentation by Prof Walter Veith about the possible end-time events around the year 2027. However, I have followed their arguments carefully and couldn’t find in them any proof either from the Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy that would make me believe that there was something wrong or dangerous in his approach. Everything he did was providing evidence that our pioneers and Ellen White believed that this world is to exist for 6000 years and that this period may end in the year 2027 as according to the Spirit of Prophecy there were 4000 years from the fall of Adam till Christ’s baptism (27 AD) leading to the year 2027 as the end of 6000-year period. He also added that we can’t be sure that this year will be the last as the Lord can prolong this time or even shorten it. We also don’t know if by 4000 or 6000 years sister White meant the exact or approximate time.

Unfortunately, critics tend to condemn this approach without telling the whole truth. Instead of encouraging a diligent and prayerful study of the last chapter of the book of Daniel concerning the second coming of Christ, they make an impression that the ideas suggested by Walter Veith are fanatical and deceptive. Subconsciously they repeat the sin committed by the Jewish religious leaders before the first coming of Christ: “The prophecy of Daniel pointed so unmistakably to the time of Messiah’s coming, and so directly foretold his death, that they discouraged its study, and finally the rabbis pronounced a curse on all who should attempt a computation of the time” (Great Controversy, 378).
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If I had to make a choice between these two opposite approaches, I would immediately choose the one represented by Prof Veith because he is not setting an exact time but provides compelling evidence that the end time events may take place soon and therefore it is time to wake up.
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In addition, Prof Veith is one of the few recognized Adventists who are brave enough to openly tell the truth about the recent pandemic and the obvious attempts of the globalist movement. Unfortunately, I couldn’t find any sign of such courage from Laurence Turner, Elias Brasil de Souza, Mark Finley, Loren Seibold, or other opponents of the cosmic week idea. It is about them and all those who keep quiet when it is time to protest, that Ellen White wrote the following words: “Our ministers are not doing their whole duty. The attention of the people should be called to the momentous event which is so near at hand. The signs of the times should be kept fresh before their minds…” (5T, 5.2).

Our leaders and ministers should recognize the current and clear signs of the times and like prof Veith they are expected to boldly protest against crimes associated with the pandemic and very dangerous mRNA vaccines, constant and obvious lies propagated by health authorities, politicians, and mainstream media. Like Prof Veith, they should keep on telling the truth about the current attempts of the papal Rome to push the Sunday law based on the fake climate change hysteria. Like Prof Veith they should be brave and expose the truth about the globalist movement attempting to build the modern “Babel tower” predicted in the book of Revelation. If they claim to “have the Spirit of Prophecy” they should do what the Spirit of prophecy says: “My message to you is this: No longer consent to listen without protest to the perversion of truth” (Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 2, p. 15).

Another reason I prefer to trust Prof Veith is the fact that he is also one of the few Adventists who accepted and proclaim the fully recovered gospel. The best proof is his sermon titled “Corporate Identity” (6). The same message was first preached by Prof W. W. Prescott (7) during the 1888 era, and in recent decades constantly proclaimed by the late Pastor Jack Sequeira (8). Proclamation of this fully recovered gospel is the most vital sign of the time because it was always the gospel that in the history of Christianity led to great spiritual revivals and reformation and it is also the true gospel which is the foundation of the three angel messages (Revelation 14:6) as the first angel carries the gospel and the two other angels join the first and follow him. I believe that the same gospel as revealed in the sermon “Corporate Identity” (6) should soon open the door for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, in the same way as the message proclaimed by Waggoner and Jones, according to Ellen White, triggered the beginning of the letter rain during the 1888 era.
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The above-mentioned opponents of the cosmic week idea are far from proclaiming this truth and the BRI, represented by Elias Brasil de Souza and previously by Manuel Rodriguez, even dare to openly oppose this most precious gospel in numerous articles (13). I have dealt with this subject in my article “Fully Recovered Gospel Under Attack”:  https://www.salvation1.com/articles/fully-restored-gospel-under-attack/

 

[Kevin H]

The "cosmic week" connecting the 6 days of creation and the Sabbath to the thousands of years past creation was created by an intertestamental rabbi who adding up the ages of the patriarchs in his Bible and noticed that the world was nearing the 7,000 year (Their calculations would have had the 7,000 year start in what we came to call 31 AD). Now, this was only from the popular reading of the Palestinian text -- Most complete is the Dead Sea Scrolls-- The Bible that Jesus and the disciples used. But not the only possible translations of the dates. The Egyptian family, best known the LXX--the Bible Paul used-- already had the world in the 7,000th year. 

When the only thing that happened in what we call 31 AD was focused on the events of Jesus, a number of rabbis wanted to move it away from Jesus, so they looked into the Babylonian family of texts and looked at the possible translations of the ages and found that if they read it in a certain way that they could make 31 AD only 4,000 years old and this became the popular way to translate the numbers in the Masoretic text and this is how we got our dates. 

[Kevin H]

 

I forgot to mention this last night. People use Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 to support the "cosmic week". But the context of these verses is God's perspective. Now, the ancient world had cycles. Our day-year principle comes from these cycles. We find the Biblical cycles in Leviticus 23 and 25 and scattered through Deuteronomy. The context of these chapters are the cyclic connections between time periods. I'm sorry, but none of the texts that actually deal with the time interchangeabilities have Day = Thousand years. Nor does Psalm 90 or 2 Peter say "Oops, the Bible has a big mistake in Leviticus and Numbers. God also meant to include day = thousand years, please correct this mistake." 

Thus we have a very popular taking a text out of context while ignoring the texts that actually address the issue that they are using the out of context quote for 

In addition; these ages are really really old material, giving evidence to their authenticity. But because of their ancient status and the fact that language is constantly developing and changing, the numbers have been updated and translated over who knows how long. Translators talk about the different answers we can get in trying to add up the numbers. It is not a clear 6,000. If Jesus was to have added up the ages as he read them in his Bible while on earth, they would have reached the 7,000 year while he lived (as mentioned before; the rabbis in Jesus day added it and came up to what we call 31 AD. If Paul was to read his Bible when he lived in Tarsus and the Bible he used when doing his missionary trips and writing his letters, they would have added up to 5,000 years to 8,000 years. 

These already show that prophecies and interpretations based on the age of the earth; especially the 6,000 year speculation, is building a house upon the sand and having the rock available but still choosing to build on the sand. 

In addition to the above problems; both the intertestamental rabbis, and our current speculators have taken an approach to the genealogies is a style that only started in classical Greece. The idea of each and everyone are named, that it is a direct biological father to biological son relationship. But these genealogies started in classical Greece. The ancient genealogies are different and the Bible genealogies were written centuries, if not millennia, before Classical Greece. Ancient genealogies list the important people. They skip generations to go from one important person to the next. While I understand our record in Genesis to be biological; ancient genealogies can also be people who held an office. An example, if the United States and our Presidents were being listed in the ancient world it would read like "George Washington begat Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson begat Jackson, Jackson begat Lincoln, Lincoln begat Roosevelt, Roosevelt begat Kennedy..." A third point of ancient genealogies is that often over history the first born son would be named after the paternal grandfather. Thus you can have several generations where you have two names repeated. But as recorded in the genealogies each name is mentioned once. As we read them through our Greek eyes, it looks like it is only two people. While on the ancient genealogies they could cover several generations until the family list gets a new name. 

Spend time on the more sure word of God. First, read the text. Second, learn what you can about the words and languages and literary structures. Learn how to use concordances and word books.  Third, learn the ancient history and culture. (Of course the 3 frequently named most important are Bright's A History of Israel, Aharoni's The Land of the Bible, and the MacMillian Bible Atlas. Also may I recommend Thompson's Archaeology, a sadly out of print book but which can really help us with much of the Bible, including 1844 is Henri Frankfort and others Before Philosophy, 1946 University of Chicago Press. Why we don't get the publishing rights and reprint it I'll never know. That book alone could have limited if not eliminate the Desmond Ford crisis. Bowman's Hebrew Thought compared to Greek Carol Meyers "Rediscovering Eve" and there is also a book where she gave a chapter on ancient families. Ellen Davis Scripture, culture and agriculture.) We live in a time where we can study the Bible like never before. Spend your time on these so that you can grow from where these have brought us and where we are actually building on the rock of scripture instead of the sand of taking unclear numbers, with grabbing  two verses out of context and ignoring the chapters that deal with the topic, and build speculation on this sand.  Remember the Wiseman built his house upon the rock.