On Racial Issues

[B/W Photodude]

2 hours ago, bonnie said:

Do you abhor all dishonesty/lies ?  Biden has proven himself to be a liar for decades.

His dishonesty during his first run for the presidency caused him to withdraw from the race.  From claiming to be coal miner, civil rights activist, being shot at in Irag, knowing where Bin Laden was and on and on. All lies.

Is this something you consider a serious character flaw in Biden and, Lying lips are an abomination to YAHWEH? 

Or just when it concerns Trump? To my knowledge Biden has never admitted to lying. It is always a mistake but never blatant dishonesty.

Bonnie, 

I have posted volumes of material here on Adventistan regarding Biden from his acts in Congress for the mass incarceration of black men, to his attempted sexual assault of Tara Reade, the often video molesting of young girls right in front of TV cameras, and even his involvement in the Burisma scandal for which Congress attempted to impeach Trump over.

I have also posted many things from various Blacks including all the way back to George Washington Carver (who wrote of the white people lynched in the South trying to help the Black folks of the South), comments from Thomas Sowell, Candace Owens ( a very articulate Black women who challenges the Black community on why they often make thugs and criminals into heros), and even ordinary men in the street detailing the good things that President Trump did for the Black community that Biden in 47 years of accomplishing little in his time in the Congress while he praised exKKK member Robert Byrd at his funeral. Under the presidency of Donald Trump, unemployment among Black, Latinos, and women have never been better (until Covid of which a rapid recovery is taking place).

President Trump, Ben Carson, any Adventist who supports him, and lastly me (with name calling) have been repeatedly trashed.

Incredibly, the tags "racism" and "hateful" have repeatedly been applied to President Trump, but several requests for examples of the said behaviors have gone unanswered. 

So, good luck!

[JoeMo]

On 11/10/2020 at 5:59 PM, stinsonmarri said:

Photodude: This is for you and Joe! This is a sin and a shame

So you would rather see a guy who supports a global one-world government, is a hypocrite to his Catholic faith (indeed his Christianity) by supporting abortion and the gay agenda and will eventually crumble under pressure from the radical left than a man who may say some arguably offensive or stupid things, but kept almost every one of his campaign promises?  Biden and Harris both are bigger racists than Trump could ever be.  Look at their respective history concerning treatment of African Americans rather than your own prejudices.  For example, it was Obama - not Trump - that initiated putting Mexicans in cages and separating parents from children.

Unfortunately, it looks like the USA will indeed elect Biden and his globalist agenda.  Well, we get the government we deserve I guess.  God help us.

[Gustave]

Racism is an unfortunate and ugly truth within every culture on the planet. Stinsonmarrie has said it's a systemic issue in the SDA Church and while that was true in the past I don't think it's accurate to say it's still that same way today. Consider the following statement.

 

"Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 1, page 78, was referred to and ridiculed by the Baptist minister. He said that what Sister White
said about amalgamation of man and beast was utterly impossible. I referred him to Johnson's New Cyclopedia, pp. 1040, 1042, that he might learn for the first time, if he never knew it before, that "Allied species are capable, as a rule, of pairing and producing offspring; " and that, " under the influence of man, mongrel races readily arise and are indefinitely sustained,"—just exactly what Sister White says. The elder said her teachings were worse than Darwinism. But I showed that her teachings were correct (Lev. 18:23, 24), and that his were worse than nonsense". Signs of the Times November 28, 1878

Ellen White was at that point at the Apex of her prophetic ministry & a Baptist minister was publicly taking the SDA's to task over a statement interrupted to mean that certain races of mankind (particularly the darker skinned races) were capable of mating with animals [predominately Great Apes]. Above you can see an SDA apologist argue, using the science of the day AND SCRIPTURE, to prove Ellen White meant exactly what she said - i.e.: 

Leviticus 18, 23 & 24: Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: IT IS CONFUSION.

In Ellen White's defense it was a COMMON view in the 19th century & prior that the human race had become confused by infusion of the animal species [specifically the Great Apes]. This fact was written about extensively by Gustave Jahoda in his excellent book "Images of Savages [The] Ancient Roots of Modern Prejudice in Western Culture ISBN: 0-415--18855-5 from which the two following examples were taken.

ISBN Search

"In his essay concerning human understanding, Tyson's contemporary John Locke went so far as to assert the impossibility of defining what 'man is'. According to Locke, one cannot say that man results from the sexual union of two human beings, it being well known that man and ape can procreate together". Page 38

"One could presume that hairy savages are half-breeds of apes and women. How many negresses, surprised by a libertine troop of satyrs in the African forests could have begotten half-breeds? How many even of famale Jockos, wild Messalinas, have voluntarily prostrated themselves to the ardour of Africans? One knows nothing about what kind love goes on in these ancient forests, where the heat of the climate, the brutal life of the inhabitants, the solitude and the delirium of passion, without law, religion, morals, can lead to daring everything, and these degraded beings, these monsters half-way between humans and apes will long remain a mystery to us". (Virey 1826, Volume 2 pp 400-1 (Page 46 of Images of Savages)

&

"Trace the manners of the natives, the whole extent from Cape Cantin to the Cape of Good Hope, and you find a constant and almost regular gradation in the scale of understanding, till the wretched Cafre sinks nearly below the Orang Outang". 

&

Other quotes can be found where it is described that black women preferred Ape husbands to that of Negro men. The point to all of this is that this type racism is more about scientific ignorance combined with observation than it is about racism.

Consider what it recorded when a Roman Geographer (a Pagan) from 65 B.C. said after returning from an assignment in Africa:

"The Garamantes have no knowledge of marriage: it is the custom of the country to have the women in common. Hence only the mothers recognize their sons; the honorable title of father cannot be applied to anyone. Who could, in effect, distinguish a father in the midst of such moral license? So the Ethiopian Garamentes are rightly regarded as a degenerate people since, as a consequence of that promiscuity, the family name is sadly lost". SOLIN Page 31 

Many other things are quoted in this book and the Author goes back into ancient (as in hundreds of years before Christ) to catalog what has been said about Africa and it's inhabitants. Essentially one of the things the ancient Greeks, Romans and Egyptians pondered was the absence of a written language, history or building of structures past simple mud huts. 

All of this stuff - along with things like "Julia Pastrana"  [the victorian apewoman] being presented at Carnivals all over the united states. Julia was a Digger Indian who was born with a birth defect - this didn't prevent the Carnival from presenting her as the product of her mother being raped by an unknown species of Ape or possibly a brown bear after he mother foolishly wondered into a mountainous region afar from the protection of civil men. 

 

All of this information was bouncing around in the head of Ellen White when she wrote what she did - I don't think Ellen was racist - she was just a product of her times. Unfortunately the theme promulgated by those early Adventists found a eager and willing audience by real racists and just like in every culture it goes on and on and on. However, it's NOTHING like it used to be and anyone saying otherwise just isn't being honest. 

 

 

 

[Theophilus]

I had to skim over this. This stuff is terrible. It has bothered me all evening.

[Gregory Matthews]

In regard to the reference to Ellen White and her views on the amalgamation of the human race:  There is a lack of certainty, which is a subject for debate, as to what Ellen With actually believed.  The bottom line is that Ellen White made one statement that has been the subject of debate.  She did not develop her views on this subject  into a comprehensive statement.  We may not know exactly what she believed.

In any case.  Ellen White was not without error in her beliefs.  Humans, which Ellen White was, are never without any error,  even me and Gustave.      Only God is without error, and our understanding of God is imperfect and subject to error.

So, if you want to say that Ellen White was in error on this point of her belief, I will not challenge you on that.

I have no need to present her as a perfect person, which she was not.

 

 

[Gustave]

3 hours ago, Theophilus said:

I had to skim over this. This stuff is terrible. It has bothered me all evening.

Unfortunately this belief that humans could procreate with Great Apes persisted into the 20 century with ilia Ivanov convincing the Communist Party of Russia he could deliver the ultimate kill shot to all forms of religion by successfully breeding Orang's, Gorilla and Chimpanzees to human females and thereby provide Joseph Stalin with Planet of the Apes style Red Army that was physically superior to anything else on the planet. Ivanov failed to produce fruit and was exiled. 

 

 

[stinsonmarri]

On 11/10/2020 at 9:04 PM, bonnie said:

Stinsonmarri, I am just really curious. 

Do you abhor all dishonesty/lies ?  Biden has proven himself to be a liar for decades. He has told some whoppers. Beginning with the tragic death of his first wife and baby daughter. To gain more sympathy he claimed the truck driver was drunk. When in fact his wife was at fault and the truck driver was not drunk. That is really tacky. His dishonesty during his first run for the presidency caused him to withdraw from the race.  From claiming to be coal miner, civil rights activist, being shot at in Irag, knowing where Bin Laden was and on and on. All lies.

Is this something you consider a serious character flaw in Biden and, Lying lips are an abomination to YAHWEH? 

Or just when it concerns Trump? To my knowledge Biden has never admitted to lying. It is always a mistake but never blatant dishonesty. You have made it very plain what you think of Trump, what do you think of the blatant, provable long standing dishonesty of Biden? I follow discussions here from time to time and don't believe I have ever read your thoughts on the dishonesty of Biden

Bonnie

 

 

 

 

 

Bonnie have you ever told a lie, I have and I have ask for forgiveness. Anyone without sin cast the first stone! What gets me with you Trump lovers, that you take up for a man that lies continually and does not have empathy at all. Here he is lying that that the election was stolen from him. Republican Governors and Secretaries proved that the voting was above board. He fired the young man overlooking corruption because he stated that the election was done correctly, just, and fair. Here on the 6th he wants violence to erupt outside while congress do their ceremonial duties. Then a congressman is trying to sue Pence to disavow accepting the votes. This is a evil madman and if you want to accept his madness go ahead! All knows that he want to stay in office because New York State is going to get him.

If you feel that Biden has lied, fine! Guess what he is still the President elect. The majority in the six states has spoken and none of you can change it. You people are sore losers, you have problem with racism just like Trump. He brought out what you thought you had hidden in your heart! What's in the dark will come to the light and it has. You can balk, scream call Biden whatever, will not change that he won. You need to get over it and pray! It is so tiring that you say the same thing over and over and we tell you the same thing over and over. It is done and this is YAHWEH'S plan. THE POWER is in HIS HANDS not yours or mine. To me it does not matter what you think of Biden or Harris okay, sure; THEY STILL WON! How many of you going to Washington to stand up for  your leader? Photodue is always talking about somebody's electrons he have use his proton, neutron, atom and so much more that he has become a robot! He has put down the Liberty Magazine and other things because it does not praise Trump! Who cares!

Now, all of you please give it a rest enough is enough! BREATEH, GET SOME REST because Biden will be the next President of the United States. Have a good life, if you can.

HAPPY SABBATH

[Gregory Matthews]

In the interests of accuracy, the following quote is what Ellen White actually said in regard to amalgamation:

But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. God purposed to destroy by a flood that powerful, long-lived race that had corrupted their ways before him. He would not suffer them to live out the days of their natural life, which would be hundreds of years. It was only a few generations back when Adam had access to that tree which was to prolong life. After his disobedience he was not suffered to eat of the tree of life and perpetuate a life of sin. In order for man to possess an endless life he must continue to eat of the fruit of the tree of life. Deprived of that tree, his life would gradually wear out. { 1SP 69.1 }

 

[Gregory Matthews]

The following are two comments about the EGW statement on amalgamation which should be considered.

http://www.adventisthistory.org/2014/03/25/amalgamation-ellen-whites-most-controversial-statement/

 

https://whiteestate.org/about/issues1/unusual/scientific-issues/amalgamation-man-and-beast/

  

[B/W Photodude]

Sometimes you grow weary of some of these arguments that are little more than thinly veiled attempts at the discrediting of Sister Ellen. The remarks which she made were not well defined in her writings and leave many questions. Some even hint at an amalgamation occurring before the flood and others are not defined as meaning human-human and animal-animal amalgamation. Unfortunately, she is not here to explain exactly what she meant and all attempts to explain it are little more than guesswork, and may I say hostile guesswork.

One of the things that her detractors latch on to is the impossibility of amalgamation humans to animals. Well, guess what? They are doing that in labs today. In a variety of ways they are "amalgamating" humans with animals and even bacteria. Any of your recombinant medications are produced thru amalgamating human genes with bacteria. Human DNA insulin has now become the standard for diabetics. Hopefully, insulin producing e. coli never gets loose in the "wild". Following is a story regarding human and animal amalgamations:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/04/10/136131/chinese-scientists-have-put-human-brain-genes-in-monkeysand-yes-they-may-be-smarter/

At least some researchers are a bit ethically concerned by this advance in research:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-science-animal-human-idUSTRE5A900R20091110

[Gustave]

Its true is it not that the term "WORLDLING" was used to describe non SDA's. 

Both article state that after 1870 those statements about Amalgamation were removed from Ellen White's books, however, those identical quotes continue to be made long after 1870 in periodicals subscribed to by devout SDA's. 

The other side - which claims Ellen indeed meant Humans were interbreeding with Orang's deserves strong consideration due to the language used by Ellen White's contemporaries while they were defending her amalgamation statement. The language they were using was spot on with the Naturalists of the time. See below.

 

Review & Sabbath Herald: July 31, 1866, Objections to Sister White Article

"The vision speaks of all these classes as races of men ; yet in the face of this plain declaration, they foolishly assert that the visions teach that some men are not human beings! But does any one deny the general statement contained in the extract given above ? They do not. If they did, they could easily be silenced by a reference to such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa, some tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country, &c. Moreover, Naturalists  affirm that the line of demarcation between the human and animal races is lost in confusion. It is impossible, as they affirm to tell just where the human ends, and the animal begins Can we suppose that, this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Bather has not sin marred |Jia boundaries of these two kingdoms?"

The Baptists and other's who were making the claim Ellen's visions were teaching some races of man were not really human WASN'T TRUE according to Ellen's Husband - because after-all "THE NATURALISTS" [scientists of the day] were affirming the same thing that Ellen had said. None of the Naturalists claimed these races weren't human - they were simply claiming the lines of demarcation had been blurred or confused BECAUSE they were, "allied Species"

The following quotes are representative  (& dispositive) 

"when the orang-utan is compared with the ape, baboon, or monkey, he is found to have far more conformity to man than to those animals. The Indians are therefore excusable for associating him with the human race, under the appellation of oran-outang, or wild man, since he resembles man much more than he does the ape, or any other animal". 

The next one is pretty rough but drives the point home that James White made about Hottentots. 

"Long consigns Hottentots and “some races of black” men to Agamben’s mobile border, the intimate caesura where “man” and “animal” are “very nearly allied.” According to Long, they are like each other in external appearance, and
what is more, they like each other sexually. Orang-utans and negroes “have the most intimate connexion and consanguinity,” Long asserts: “Thee amorous intercourse between them may be frequent; the Negroes themselves bear testimony that such intercourses actually happen; and it is certain, that both races agree perfectly well in lasciviousness of disposition” (2:370).

“Prominent in the discursive representation of the ape was the trope of interspecies miscegenation, in which the male ape, usually the orang utang, is said to carry off the female African, often described as a ‘Hottentot,”’ observes Laura Brown in Fables of Modernity.  (236, 238).

"The physiological similarities between negroes and orang-utans, along with the miscegenated unions cited by Long, Buffon, Monboddo and others, lead Long to conclude that “an orang-outan is a human being, quoad his intellect; he has in form a much nearer resemblance to the Negroe race, than the latter bear to white men.” This is is part of the divine plan, since in his infi nite wisdom, God has diversified the human species according to varying degrees of intellectual capability, positioning orang-utans as “the lag of human kind, / Nearest to brutes,by God designed” (2:371). In the human hierarchy Long assembles, orang-utans constitute a “race,” a “kind,” a “type of man” (2.375).11 “Guiney Negroes” are one step up; and from there “the human” ascends into lighter shades of complexion, and therefore more advanced degrees of “humanity,” “until we mark its utmost limit of perfection in the pure White.”

I view this as more of an ignorance thing than I do I racist thing - sure, racists pick up on elements of it but the fact remains that at the time Ellen White wrote what she did about amalgamation the intellectual rock-stars of the day were affirming EXACTLY what Ellen White had said and what James White ( & Kilgore ) were defending in 1866 and 1878. 

Now, this "mistake" of science isn't only found with Ellen White and the SDA's to be sure.

Clement of Rome AND St. Clement (4th Pope) believed that the Phoenix was a real animal: 

"There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the deed bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed." 1 Clement

So, as one can see - people's personal opinions can be in error. 

 

 

 

 

[Gustave]

21 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

Sometimes you grow weary of some of these arguments that are little more than thinly veiled attempts at the discrediting of Sister Ellen. The remarks which she made were not well defined in her writings and leave many questions. Some even hint at an amalgamation occurring before the flood and others are not defined as meaning human-human and animal-animal amalgamation. Unfortunately, she is not here to explain exactly what she meant and all attempts to explain it are little more than guesswork, and may I say hostile guesswork.

One of the things that her detractors latch on to is the impossibility of amalgamation humans to animals. Well, guess what? They are doing that in labs today. In a variety of ways they are "amalgamating" humans with animals and even bacteria. Any of your recombinant medications are produced thru amalgamating human genes with bacteria. Human DNA insulin has now become the standard for diabetics. Hopefully, insulin producing e. coli never gets loose in the "wild". Following is a story regarding human and animal amalgamations:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/04/10/136131/chinese-scientists-have-put-human-brain-genes-in-monkeysand-yes-they-may-be-smarter/

At least some researchers are a bit ethically concerned by this advance in research:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-science-animal-human-idUSTRE5A900R20091110

You agree with my statement then? Since I became aware of the historical context of Ellen's amalgamation statement I concluded that Ellen couldn't be considered a racist because of her amalgamation statements. She was just asserting what the science of the day was asserting. 

"Only a few insignificant tribes know anything about mechanic arts or manufacture, “and even these, for the most part, are said to perform their work in a very bungling and slovenly manner, perhaps not better than an orang-outang might, with a little pains, be brought to do” (2:355). “When we reflect on the nature of these men, and their dissimilarity to the rest of mankind, must we not conclude that they are a different species of the same genus?” asks Long. After all, otheranimals are divided into myriad subordinate species and kinds, so why conclude that man alone is “undiversified”? Horses, for example, resemble men, as do gibbons or orang-utans, which have some similarity to the “ape-kind” but are closer to men in their physical make-up" (2:356, 2:358).

The point is that the Naturalists were not saying the Hottentots, Wild Bushmen & Digger Indians "weren't human" they were arguing that they were a species or race of human wherein the line of demarcation between human and animal had been blurred by hybridization (Leviticus 18, 23 & 24). 

 

 

 

[Gustave]

Here Stinson, I don't want you to be confused.

Ilya Ivanovich Ivanov - Wikipedia

 

[stinsonmarri]

19 hours ago, Gustave said:

Racism is an unfortunate and ugly truth within every culture on the planet. Stinsonmarrie has said it's a systemic issue in the SDA Church and while that was true in the past I don't think it's accurate to say it's still that same way today. Consider the following statement.

 

"Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 1, page 78, was referred to and ridiculed by the Baptist minister. He said that what Sister White
said about amalgamation of man and beast was utterly impossible. I referred him to Johnson's New Cyclopedia, pp. 1040, 1042, that he might learn for the first time, if he never knew it before, that "Allied species are capable, as a rule, of pairing and producing offspring; " and that, " under the influence of man, mongrel races readily arise and are indefinitely sustained,"—just exactly what Sister White says. The elder said her teachings were worse than Darwinism. But I showed that her teachings were correct (Lev. 18:23, 24), and that his were worse than nonsense". Signs of the Times November 28, 1878

Ellen White was at that point at the Apex of her prophetic ministry & a Baptist minister was publicly taking the SDA's to task over a statement interrupted to mean that certain races of mankind (particularly the darker skinned races) were capable of mating with animals [predominately Great Apes]. Above you can see an SDA apologist argue, using the science of the day AND SCRIPTURE, to prove Ellen White meant exactly what she said - i.e.: 

Leviticus 18, 23 & 24: Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: IT IS CONFUSION.

In Ellen White's defense it was a COMMON view in the 19th century & prior that the human race had become confused by infusion of the animal species [specifically the Great Apes]. This fact was written about extensively by Gustave Jahoda in his excellent book "Images of Savages [The] Ancient Roots of Modern Prejudice in Western Culture ISBN: 0-415--18855-5 from which the two following examples were taken.

ISBN Search

"In his essay concerning human understanding, Tyson's contemporary John Locke went so far as to assert the impossibility of defining what 'man is'. According to Locke, one cannot say that man results from the sexual union of two human beings, it being well known that man and ape can procreate together". Page 38

"One could presume that hairy savages are half-breeds of apes and women. How many negresses, surprised by a libertine troop of satyrs in the African forests could have begotten half-breeds? How many even of famale Jockos, wild Messalinas, have voluntarily prostrated themselves to the ardour of Africans? One knows nothing about what kind love goes on in these ancient forests, where the heat of the climate, the brutal life of the inhabitants, the solitude and the delirium of passion, without law, religion, morals, can lead to daring everything, and these degraded beings, these monsters half-way between humans and apes will long remain a mystery to us". (Virey 1826, Volume 2 pp 400-1 (Page 46 of Images of Savages)

&

"Trace the manners of the natives, the whole extent from Cape Cantin to the Cape of Good Hope, and you find a constant and almost regular gradation in the scale of understanding, till the wretched Cafre sinks nearly below the Orang Outang". 

&

Other quotes can be found where it is described that black women preferred Ape husbands to that of Negro men. The point to all of this is that this type racism is more about scientific ignorance combined with observation than it is about racism.

Consider what it recorded when a Roman Geographer (a Pagan) from 65 B.C. said after returning from an assignment in Africa:

"The Garamantes have no knowledge of marriage: it is the custom of the country to have the women in common. Hence only the mothers recognize their sons; the honorable title of father cannot be applied to anyone. Who could, in effect, distinguish a father in the midst of such moral license? So the Ethiopian Garamentes are rightly regarded as a degenerate people since, as a consequence of that promiscuity, the family name is sadly lost". SOLIN Page 31 

Many other things are quoted in this book and the Author goes back into ancient (as in hundreds of years before Christ) to catalog what has been said about Africa and it's inhabitants. Essentially one of the things the ancient Greeks, Romans and Egyptians pondered was the absence of a written language, history or building of structures past simple mud huts. 

All of this stuff - along with things like "Julia Pastrana"  [the victorian apewoman] being presented at Carnivals all over the united states. Julia was a Digger Indian who was born with a birth defect - this didn't prevent the Carnival from presenting her as the product of her mother being raped by an unknown species of Ape or possibly a brown bear after he mother foolishly wondered into a mountainous region afar from the protection of civil men. 

 

All of this information was bouncing around in the head of Ellen White when she wrote what she did - I don't think Ellen was racist - she was just a product of her times. Unfortunately the theme promulgated by those early Adventists found a eager and willing audience by real racists and just like in every culture it goes on and on and on. However, it's NOTHING like it used to be and anyone saying otherwise just isn't being honest. 

 

 

 

Gustave: You know people like you are truly unreal, to say the least. You can see that this picture is a drawing and you are mixing what EGW says with a bunch of garbage. I feel you have a problem with your nonsense. This is what EGW said:

But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the IMAGE of God and caused confusion everywhere. God purposed to destroy by a flood that powerful, long-lived race that had corrupted their ways before HIM. HE would not suffer them to live out the days of their natural life, which would be hundreds of years. It was only a few generations back when Adam had access to that tree which was to prolong life.

Every species of animals which God had created was preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood, there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. SP p. 70, 79 

If you read the first paragraph you will see that this is before Gen Chapter 10! She said the race defaced THE IMAGE of ELOHIYM by amalgamating. This word means to mix, she did not know how to explain genetic modification. We all think that mermaids and centaurs are mythology and they are not. Here is the proof of what the Bible says:

Because that when they knew ELOHIYM, they glorified HIM not as ELOHIYM, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools: And changed THE GLORY of the INCORRUPTIBLE ELOHIYM into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping animals. Rom 1:21-3 

The antediluvian people were geniuses and they were using 100% of their brains. The Adams male and female were made in THE IMAGE OF ELOHIYM. Genetic modification that is done today is baby stuff compared to them. The animals were not ferocious at that time. They could do things that are way beyond our minds today! Flesh beings were of great statute so were the animals. The animals that were found in the early 18th hundreds were amateurs history and science was not known to study the ancient past. This is how history started, but they took bones of these large animals and made them, who been in a flood look, to like meat-eaters and they were not. They know now that a lot of corruption went into producing the dinosaurs.

The question remains: How do those fossils go from that exhilarating moment of discovery to become a classified, named, and fully imagined drawing or computer model of a dinosaur? Between discovery and depiction, there is a lot of scientific sleuthing and artistic licensing that comes into play. Over the course of the past several decades, our understanding of dinosaurs has changed dramatically and so has their depictions. From bipedal, lumbering, tail-draggers to intelligent, complex, and sometimes feathered beasts, a lot has changed in our understanding of dinosaurs. How we depict dinosaurs has also changed to reflect these new understandings. How Do Scientists Know What Dinosaurs Looked Like?

Now, the first two sentences is correct and the Bible backs it up. But EGW still accepted many of the beliefs that were taught in the Methodist church during her day. She nor the pioneers were overnight or instantly made aware of all truths. They all were babes groping in darkness and they were on milk. Catholicism had singed false doctrines of Nimrod back into the world. Plus, the KJV and other English translated deliberately hid many truths by just changing or using certain words. If you would take the time to look the etymology of the middle ages creating their own meaning to words that both in Latin and Gree had totally different meaning. You notice what century when the word was change leaning more toward old Aryan words of the Sanskrit. However, they quickly adapted the philosophy of the Greek. They knew that the Greek admire the Egyptians and Etheopian people who were Afrikans or Ham's children. But they left this information hidden for centuries.

They changed history of the past to doubt YAHWEH and to believe that finite created beings could evolved from the animal world. They also taught their was one superior people, and had people to accept that their were different races instead of culture differences. How could there be different races, when Noah's sons were all related? They saw great strutures in Afrika and India that were built but not by Japheth children and they lied to make it appear that White is good and Black is evil. You can tell a white like but not a black one; how rididculous! They lied that when Noah woke up from being drunk from "his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him." First if you look up the word son it also mean grandson and the proof also is he curse Canaan and not Ham. Secondly, "to him." These words are not in the Hebrew sentence. No where does it indicate that Canaan touched his grandfather but was in the tent and did see him naked. But, Japheth children had to make it appear that Ham instead of Canaan was a disgraceful homesexual and thats he and thats why he and all of his children were curse. Why? So, they could claim all of the things Ham's children built and wrote. Does that make Ham better than his older brother, no it doesn't! But Ham's children should get the reconition they are due. What about Shem, Japheth left them out too. They were brown skin so they made them to appear White and hated the so call Jew who were not Hebrews but were White. Explain that one? Persia, Parthians and the Medes were all Aryans people that spread to Europe and into Northern India. The Dravidians were Cushites who were already living in Southern India and the Aryan felt just like they always had, they were superior. They formed the caste system, while Europe started slavery of the African people known as Chattel slavery! This is what the Pioneers was taught to believe including EGW!

"Since the flood, there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men."

This quote was correct man has mix breeds of dogs as they have done plants. Scientist have sought to explain that dog came from wolfs but they know today that it not true at all. Many things man has mixed YAHWEH SAID not to mix. Lev 19:19, Deut 22:9–11 But, what she said about certain races was not Bibical but was prejudicely taught. We all are ONE RACE and it was YAHWEH from Noah's loins that gave only different color skin.

Each of the three commands is about two different kinds: 1) two kinds of seed, 2) two kinds of animal, and 3) two kinds of yarn. The different seeds were not to be planted together; the different animals were not to plow together; and the different yarns were not to be interwoven. GotQuestions.org

Finally, YAHWEH STATED very clearly that beings made in HIS IMAGE should not lie down with beast because they could cause confusion.

Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Lev 18:23  

Because of this, YAHWEH gave them up to filthy lusts of their hearts, and their bodies to be dishonored among themselves, who changed the truth of YAHWEH into the lie, and worshiped and served the created thing more than the CREATOR, who is BLESSED FOREVER. Amen. Rom 1:24, 25

Noone has every found a subspecies even the things that have been discovered like Lucy are in the chimpanzee and ape family that was tamper with and it has been discovered that bamboon found in her skelton. Satan main goal is to destroy the belief in Creation and the relationship of Noah's three sons. We cannot disregard that all of the pioneers were taught racism but overtime change would come to all who will serve YAHWEH! Your comment are not the will of YAHWEH and the Bible proves it!

Happy Sabbath!

[stinsonmarri]

1 hour ago, Gustave said:

Here Stinson, I don't want you to be confused.

Ilya Ivanovich Ivanov - Wikipedia

 

He is famous for his controversial attempts to create a human-ape hybrid by inseminating three female chimpanzees with human sperm (with no result) Ilya Ivanovich Ivanov; From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When you provide information, I suggest you read it first please.

Happy Sabbath!

[Gustave]

8 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

He is famous for his controversial attempts to create a human-ape hybrid by inseminating three female chimpanzees with human sperm (with no result) Ilya Ivanovich Ivanov; From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When you provide information, I suggest you read it first please.

Happy Sabbath!

You should complete reading information you're provided prior to providing your commentary. 

"In 1929 he organized a set of experiments involving nonhuman ape sperm and human volunteers, but was delayed by the death of his last orangutan". 

Furthermore you intimated that you were confused by an earlier post - I provided you information so that you would know more about this subject matter. 

 

Happy Sabbath. 

 

[stinsonmarri]

Just now, Gustave said:

You should complete reading information you're provided prior to providing your commentary. 

"In 1929 he organized a set of experiments involving nonhuman ape sperm and human volunteers, but was delayed by the death of his last orangutan". 

Furthermore you intimated that you were confused by an earlier post - I provided you information so that you would know more about this subject matter. 

 

Happy Sabbath. 

 

He never succeeded give it a rest! If it could be done you not just read it in Wikipedia, it would be all over the news everywhere. Think!

Happy Sabbath!

[Gustave]

22 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

He never succeeded give it a rest! If it could be done you not just read it in Wikipedia, it would be all over the news everywhere. Think!

Happy Sabbath!

No one suggests that this type of thing could succeed Other than Ellen White and the scores of Naturalists who told her it was possible. THAT was the point. 

Here is James White telling you he understood Ellen to be teaching that it WAS POSSIBLE and that it HAD HAPPENED. 

"It is impossible, as they affirm to tell just where the human ends, and the animal begins Can we suppose that, this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has not sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms ? But,
says the objector, Paul says that " God hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth," and they then add, " Which shall we believe, Paul or B. G. White ?" You need not disbelieve' E. G. White, in order to believe Paul; for there is no contradiction between them. Paul's language will apply to all classes of men who have ANY
of the original Adamic blood in their veins ; and that there are ANY who have not this, is not taught by the
visions, nor claimed by any one."

What James White is here saying is that a Hybrid Human / Orang would have "ADAMIC BLOOD" in it's veins and therefore Ellen was NOT saying that the vision from God was claiming that certain races of men weren't human. Ellen's Husband is therefore stating that St. Paul's teaching about "ONE BLOOD" would apply to ANY race of man, even those races of men who had mated with the beasts. 

You're argument isn't with me Stinson, it's with the contemporaries of Ellen White who told you in clear terms what they understood Sister White to mean. 

[phkrause]

7 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

The following are two comments about the EGW statement on amalgamation which should be considered.

http://www.adventisthistory.org/2014/03/25/amalgamation-ellen-whites-most-controversial-statement/

https://whiteestate.org/about/issues1/unusual/scientific-issues/amalgamation-man-and-beast/

Sadly Gregory it seems some want to always bring EGW down!! I don't know why, maybe to knock her off of a pedestal that she really has never been on or wanted to be on!! Thanks for posting these links they couldn't have made it more plain, at least for me, of what she was trying to say!!

[B/W Photodude]

This is an amalgamation:

Zoe is the zorse is one of our newer additions at the Ararat Ridge Zoo. This beautiful girl recently moved down from the Creation Museum. She’s a cross between a male Grant’s zebra and a female quarter horse. Zebras, horses, and donkeys can interbreed because they belong to a single created kind—the equine kind!

(from the Ark Encounters Facebook page)

[stinsonmarri]

4 hours ago, Gustave said:

No one suggests that this type of thing could succeed Other than Ellen White and the scores of Naturalists who told her it was possible. THAT was the point. 

Here is James White telling you he understood Ellen to be teaching that it WAS POSSIBLE and that it HAD HAPPENED. 

"It is impossible, as they affirm to tell just where the human ends, and the animal begins Can we suppose that, this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has not sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms ? But,
says the objector, Paul says that " God hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth," and they then add, " Which shall we believe, Paul or B. G. White ?" You need not disbelieve' E. G. White, in order to believe Paul; for there is no contradiction between them. Paul's language will apply to all classes of men who have ANY
of the original Adamic blood in their veins ; and that there are ANY who have not this, is not taught by the
visions, nor claimed by any one."

What James White is here saying is that a Hybrid Human / Orang would have "ADAMIC BLOOD" in it's veins and therefore Ellen was NOT saying that the vision from God was claiming that certain races of men weren't human. Ellen's Husband is therefore stating that St. Paul's teaching about "ONE BLOOD" would apply to ANY race of man, even those races of men who had mated with the beasts. 

You're argument isn't with me Stinson, it's with the contemporaries of Ellen White who told you in clear terms what they understood Sister White to mean. 

You misquoted EGW and so nothing else needs to be said. When the mind is bent on believing crazy and unfounded theories it is useless to succeed.

[stinsonmarri]

42 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

This is an amalgamation:

Zoe is the zorse is one of our newer additions at the Ararat Ridge Zoo. This beautiful girl recently moved down from the Creation Museum. She’s a cross between a male Grant’s zebra and a female quarter horse. Zebras, horses, and donkeys can interbreed because they belong to a single created kind—the equine kind!

(from the Ark Encounters Facebook page)

The problem with your statement is they cannot reproduce! This animal was not found in the ark. The mule, zonkey and the zorse are mixed breed. YAHWEH did not create them and this is exactly what the Bible and EGW was talking about mix different kinds of animals and different types of seeds. The proof they are not from creation is they cannot reproduce. All cultures of people are the exact kind human being and they are one race who all came from the Adams! That is a fact!

[Gustave]

9 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

The problem with your statement is they cannot reproduce! This animal was not found in the ark. The mule, zonkey and the zorse are mixed breed. YAHWEH did not create them and this is exactly what the Bible and EGW was talking about mix different kinds of animals and different types of seeds. The proof they are not from creation is they cannot reproduce. All cultures of people are the exact kind human being and they are one race who all came from the Adams! That is a fact!

You are starting to get it. So you are saying that the races of men Ellen was referring to were unable to reproduce? Let's follow your logic chain through to its conclusion together.

[Gustave]

1 hour ago, B/W Photodude said:

This is an amalgamation:

Zoe is the zorse is one of our newer additions at the Ararat Ridge Zoo. This beautiful girl recently moved down from the Creation Museum. She’s a cross between a male Grant’s zebra and a female quarter horse. Zebras, horses, and donkeys can interbreed because they belong to a single created kind—the equine kind!

(from the Ark Encounters Facebook page)

Yes, as they are, as James White and the Naturalist source he quoted - "allied species".

The Naturalists James White appealed to believed that the Orang Utan was an "allied species", a lower but separate species of African.

[stinsonmarri]

Just now, Gustave said:

You are starting to get it. So you are saying that the races of men Ellen was referring to were unable to reproduce? Let's follow your logic chain through to its conclusion together.

What I said very clearly, is what she was taught to believe. She was wrong. When all understand that when she said she that ELOHIYM or Gabriel showed her, you back it up with the Bible. Sometimes like all of us to we try fill in the missing blanks. She believe the false concepts taught in the 1800's, but as she grew in grace things changed!