Walter Veith

[GHansen]

On 5/10/2021 at 10:48 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

Resesrved for further use.

My comments below are based on the chapter "The Influence of Restorationism on Early Seventh-day Adventism and the Emergence of a Trinitarian Perspective," written by Kai Arasola (pages 165-179).

.*  Restorationism (aka Christian Primitivism)  contributed to the rise of Adventism, the Christian Connexionists, Unitarianism, Millerism,  the LDS and the JWs.  NOTE:  I think that Gustave is saying this, but not in the same language.  See pages 166 & 167.

*  The suggestion is made that those early SDA leaders often totally misunderstood the doctrine of the Trinity.  Page 174.

*  J. B. Frisbie, an early SDA minister, clearly taught that God had a face, hands and other body parts.  But, his understanding of the Trinity was severely flawed.  See pages 176 & 177.

*  Joseph Bates rejected the doctrine of the Trinity due to the fact that he belived it taught a monarchianist concept (the Father and the Son were one and the same person).  See page 177.

* John  Loughborough, rejected the Doctrine of the Trinity because he believed it taught Tritheism (page 177).

The above is just a couple of examples.  Further study should be given to this idea.  

 

 

  

The Restoration Movement, was largely driven by Alexander Campbell, the founder of the Church of Christ, aka the Campbellites. They were traditional enemies of early SDA, often debating with Adventists such as D.M. Canright, in public settings. They used to say "Nobody loves a fight like a 7 day Advent except a Campbellite." Campbell was, more or less, the instigator of modern antinomianism, evinced by a famous antinomian sermon he preached on the law. During Miller's time, in a journal known as the Millenial Harbinger, they warned Adventists that they were going to be severely disappointed when Jesus didn't come as they expected. Desmond Ford debated a Campbellite in Australia, early in his career, thereby distinguishing himself as a great defender of Advedntism. Whatever kinship SDA share with Restorationists regarding the trinity, the gulf between them over the "law" is/was impassable. The contemporary International Church of Christ, founded by Kip McKean is a descendant of the Restoration Movement. Certainly one of the most spirit filled churches of the 1990s.

[GHansen]

4 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

You are making something up that Paul did not say. I just will give you Scriptures Rom 3:20, 31; 7:1, 7, 8, 12; 8:3, 7. 

 

Stinson marri, Here you refer to Genesis 26:5:

"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." The commandments, statutes, precepts and laws mentioned here refer to specific  requirements given to Abraham, not to the mosaic system. Abraham was justified by offering up Issac, something required only of Abraham. He was circumcised, something not part of the Decalogue. 

 

Ga 3:17 " And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. No law until 430 years after Abraham."

Romans 5:12  "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned — 
13  for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
14  Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come." What Paul is saying here is that there was no law to condemn people from the time of Adam until Moses."

"Neh. 9:13  "Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
14  And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:"  The law precepts and Statutes, including the Sabbath, were given as Sinai, not during Abraham's time. He was saved by faith in God's promises, not obeying the requirements of God. According to Romans 4, circumcision indicated he had been counted righteous. it didn't make him righteous.

[GHansen]

20 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Certainly Lexicons have their limitations.  My issue is that they are better than Strong/Young who should not be used to define the meaning of a word.

Yes, there are lexicons of limited value.  For Biblical Greek, I sue the so-called Arndt & Gingrich by the University of Chicago.

 

 

This is a free computer program which I have used for many years. Copyrighted versions can be added for a ~10.00 fee or obtained by purchasing a disk for ~ $30.00. Even with the all free version, extensive searches can be done e.g. locating any NT word in the LXX. Also able to search for words based on grammatical parameters e.g., subjunctive mood in Romans. Can use corrected Strong's numbering system of the OL to search. Highly recommended. www.onlinebible.net

 

[stinsonmarri]

13 hours ago, GHansen said:

Stinsonmarri, I can read. When I was in elementary school, grade 3, we had 3 reading groups learning the Dick and Jane reader. There was a green group, a blue group, and a red group. The red group was the  highest level group. I was in that group. So obviously, I can read. 

Sorry to say you do not act like you can read. The Bible is clear and you wanted know something, Moses wrote the Book. Who gave it to him, why YAHSHUA of course. Moses who you emphasised so much wrote that Abraham kept YAHWEH'S Commandments. You are either blind or cannot read, which one? You are given concrete answers and you seem stuck in some strange unfound nonsensical theory that Paul can dismiss YAHWEH'S Commandment. You cannot even enter the Gates of the New Jerusalem unless you get the Commandments. Rev 22:14

Here read what Paul said:

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from HIM that called you into THE GRACE of THE MESSIAH unto another proclamation: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the Good News of THE MESSIAH. But though we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other Good News unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other Good News unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or ELOHIYM? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of THE MESSIAH. Gal 1:6 -10 

You cannot pervert the truth and I showed you the Truth! If you didn't read it that is your choice. I you refuse to accept it again that is your choice, but if you cannot be able to read it you need someone to help you. You clearly stated something totally ridiculous that Moses came up with some laws. Nowhere in this Bible is that true. Moses was flesh and you need to stop worshiping him instead of THE MOST HIGH! Moses killed a man and thought his fellow IsraEL would cover it up! It didn't happen! Everyone's think that Moses spoke to Pharaoh, he did not Aaron did! People do not know that 70 elders, Aaron, Nadab, Abhiu, Joshua saw YAHSHUA ate with HIM and did not die! Read Ex 24 They actually saw THE SON of THE MOST HIGH and lived. So there were no excuse in making a golden calf.

To me it is unbelievable why people shun the truth and it is smack right in their faces. Yet, they refer to go along with the majority instead of being like the Bereans. It just crazy! Don't want to accept HIS HOLY NAME, that THE THREE ARE INDIVIDUAL SPIRIT BEINGS and to accept that YAHSHUA will ever keep HIS scars to show HE  was once was flesh! How can anyone believe in parts of the Bible and not all. You must truly study for yourself! I do not want anyone to believe me either! Read and believe the Bible. Most will rather believe a lie than the truth. What profit anyone to believe nonsense. Here we have the Bible online and you can search any and everything and most like you will not do it. You want to be delusional and believe a lie, why?

I have no Heaven or Lake of Fire to place anyone. I am just a mortal being. I was giving a gift and at first I did not want it. It is a burden to see people would rather believe what men say then the Bible. It warned us about the leopard beast-Greece and how it would hellenized the world today just like it did the Pharisees. All of these unnecessary theological books to explain something so simple-the Bible! What is the sense of THE HOLY SPIRIT?  Leave the books along and try THE HOLY SPIRIT, HE will lead you into all Truth. The Bereans find it out, why can't we today!

[stinsonmarri]

14 hours ago, GHansen said:

Not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that the Muslims, who would not murder Evangelicals at the behest of the papacy were extremists? Perhaps you are saying that the papacy, who wanted to murder evengelicals for reading the Bible, etc., were extremists. Probably you don't mean that the Evangelicals who wanted to read the Bible, reject the worship/intercession of Mary, purgatory and other Roman Catholic rites were extremists, even though Rome wanted to murder them for doing those things.

I made it very clear and I did not mention anything about Muslims or the Islamic faith with Mary and Catholicism. Stop trying to twist my words please.

[stinsonmarri]

11 hours ago, GHansen said:

Stinson marri, Here you refer to Genesis 26:5:

"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." The commandments, statutes, precepts and laws mentioned here refer to specific  requirements given to Abraham, not to the mosaic system. Abraham was justified by offering up Issac, something required only of Abraham. He was circumcised, something not part of the Decalogue. 

 

Ga 3:17 " And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. No law until 430 years after Abraham."

Romans 5:12  "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned — 
13  for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
14  Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come." What Paul is saying here is that there was no law to condemn people from the time of Adam until Moses."

"Neh. 9:13  "Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
14  And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:"  The law precepts and Statutes, including the Sabbath, were given as Sinai, not during Abraham's time. He was saved by faith in God's promises, not obeying the requirements of God. According to Romans 4, circumcision indicated he had been counted righteous. it didn't make him righteous.

I explain that the Commandments and the law are two different things. As, I clearly stated YOU DO NOT READ! YOU TWIST THINGS UP! PLEASE READ WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN CORRECTLY! I had to check you several time on misquoting what I have said and you are doing it again!

[GHansen]

17 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

I explain that the Commandments and the law are two different things. As, I clearly stated YOU DO NOT READ! YOU TWIST THINGS UP! PLEASE READ WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN CORRECTLY! I had to check you several time on misquoting what I have said and you are doing it again!

Sorry if I have twisted things up. I thought you were quoting Genesis 26:5 to indicate that Abraham knew and obeyed the Decalogue. Of course, we know that can't be right because Paul said that the law didn't come until 430 years later (Galatians 3:17). Nehemiah also said that the Sabbath and other requirements of God were given to Israel at Sinai (9:13,14).  Do you believe that God introduced the Sabbath and the Decalogue to Abraham 400 years before Sinai? I suppose that is possible but it certainly wasn't a factor in his salvation. We are saved in the same way Abraham was i.e., by faith in God's promises. If works were a factor, then God would owe us salvation. It wouldn't be by grace ( Romans 4).

 

[Gustave]

For anyone wanting to understand how the Scriptures were understood throughout the history of the Christian Church I would recommend the Biblia Clerus: 

BIBLIACLERUS

Choose download or update Biblia Clerus to get the full package. It's VERY worthwhile! 

 

 

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Stinsonmarri:  Often your comments are confusing, and not clearly stated. 

You should be a bit kinder to people who do not understand what you have written.

 

 

[stinsonmarri]

50 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Stinsonmarri:  Often your comments are confusing, and not clearly stated. 

You should be a bit kinder to people who do not understand what you have written.

 

 

Thank You for the advice Pastor Matthews. I will be more mindful of that.

 

 

 

 

Blessings!

[Gustave]

22 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I explain that the Commandments and the law are two different things. As, I clearly stated YOU DO NOT READ! YOU TWIST THINGS UP! PLEASE READ WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN CORRECTLY! I had to check you several time on misquoting what I have said and you are doing it again!

We've been over this before Stinsonmarri, the 1st 5 Books of the Bible were / are universally understood to be "THE LAW".. The Commandments are within the 1st 5 Books of "The Law". 

Matthew 22,36:  Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law [ Books written by Moses ]?”  And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.  This is the great and first commandment.  And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.  On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets

 

[stinsonmarri]

21 hours ago, GHansen said:

Sorry if I have twisted things up. I thought you were quoting Genesis 26:5 to indicate that Abraham knew and obeyed the Decalogue. Of course, we know that can't be right because Paul said that the law didn't come until 430 years later (Galatians 3:17). Nehemiah also said that the Sabbath and other requirements of God were given to Israel at Sinai (9:13,14).  Do you believe that God introduced the Sabbath and the Decalogue to Abraham 400 years before Sinai? I suppose that is possible but it certainly wasn't a factor in his salvation. We are saved in the same way Abraham was i.e., by faith in God's promises. If works were a factor, then God would owe us salvation. It wouldn't be by grace ( Romans 4).

 

The word Decalogue is Greek which means:10 Commandments.  by Oxford Languages I did quote it and GHasen you know that I did. I will repeat it very clear and direct. The Bible says that Abraham kept YAHWEH'S Commandments that is plain and simple. Nothing else needs to be said. You do not want to accept it. That is plain and simple! Others beside me have stated plain and simple that sin is breaking the Commandments. It is fruitless to discuss this subject any further because you said that you can read. Paul never mention Moses in the Scripture you provided. Moses never made any Laws, never he wrote all of what YAHWEH told him to write. Even the sacrifice Laws were given to the Adams. YAHWEH made those Laws more detail to Moses and there you have it. The subject is done!

Blessings!

22 hours ago, GHansen said:

Of course, we know that can't be right because Paul said that the law didn't come until 430 years later (Galatians 3:17). Nehemiah also said that the Sabbath and other requirements of God were given to Israel at Sinai (9:13,14).  Do you believe that God introduced the Sabbath and the Decalogue to Abraham 400 years before Sinai? I suppose that is possible but it certainly wasn't a factor in his salvation.

Paul was not talking about the Commandments, he was referring to the agreement YAHWEH made with Abraham.

And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. Gen 15:12-16  

And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous: Neh 9:8  

That was the covenant which is a contract between YAHWEH and Abraham! As far a the Sabbath again, it was given to IsraEL who had strayed away from HIS Commandments. You need to understand that YAHWEH'S House was for all people and HE does not change nor is HE bias. The Sabbath is for all flesh beings. Please read:

And ELOHIYM blessed the seventh day, and SANCTIFIED it: because that in it HE had rested from all HIS work which ELOHIYM created and made. Gen 2:3  

For in six days YAHWEH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore YAHWEH blessed the Sabbath day, and HALLOWED it. Ex 20:11  

And it shall come to pass, that from one New moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before ME, saith YAHWEH. Isa 66:23  

And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Mark 2:27  

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Act 13:42  

And according to Paul's custom, he went in to them and reasoned with them from the Scriptures on three Sabbaths, Act 17:2

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

2 hours ago, Gustave said:

We've been over this before Stinsonmarri, the 1st 5 Books of the Bible were / are universally understood to be "THE LAW".. The Commandments are within the 1st 5 Books of "The Law". 

Matthew 22,36:  Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law [ Books written by Moses ]?”  And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.  This is the great and first commandment.  And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.  On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets

 

You have not going over this with me Gustave. Maybe someone else. Let me make this very clear. First, of it is not Universally understood because their are many others beside SDA that keep the Sabbath. It's only understood by those who have close minds and want to do what they want to do. Men have laws and others do not want to keep their laws universally. Fine, don't keep the Sabbath and do not ask YAHWEH or HIS SON to permit you into Heaven.

In Matt 22:36, the Pharisees were trying to catch YAHSHUA off guard. Evidently, you did not read what HE Said because if you did you would understand to love ELOHIYM  you would obey HIM. This means not to make graven images, not to worship idols of any kind, to keep HIS Sabbath, Honor and keep HIS HOLY and correct  NAME! Then if you love your neighbor like yourself; you will honor and respect your mother, dad, elderly! You will be kind and not covet, nor steal, nor lie against your neighbors. There you have it YAHWEH First and then second is your neighbor which is the Commandments all universally should know and understand that. Most chooses not so, do not be surprise when HE chooses not to let you into the Gate of the New City. Rev 22:14 It appears it said Commandments in that Scriptures too! So, Gustave I hope I made it clear!

Blessings!

[Stinsonmarri, you are making a judgment of Gustave that God has not given you the authority to make.  It is possible that Gustave will never come to keep the Sabbath, as you and I believe, but we will also find that Gustave joins us in that future eternity with God.  You are quite judgmental and you turn people away from your message.  Why should anyone listen to you when you treat them like you have done to Gustave?  Gregory Matthews]

 

[stinsonmarri]

1 hour ago, Gustave said:

the 1st 5 Books of the Bible were / are universally understood to be "THE LAW".. The Commandments are within the 1st 5 Books of "The Law". 

I need to mention this too. I will like to make it clear. Torah means in Hebrew the  teaching, direction, guidance. Yes, Moses wrote down the five book as a scribe what YAHWEH told him to write. Ex 24: 3, 7; 31:18; 34:1, 28  If you read, it also said that YAHWEH wrote the Testimony, Covenant, Commandments. I hope that is clear for you to understand.

I also want to clearly give you something universally understood. That is the Sabbath.

Languages where Saturday is call the Sabbath for Centuries

(Number of speakers in millions, rounded) Arabic: as-Sabtu 280 Armenian: Shabbat 6 Bosnian: Subota 2 Bulgarian: Sobota 7 Corsican: Sabatu > 1 Croatian: Subota 6 Czech: Sobota 10 Georgian: Sabati 4 Greek: Savvato 13 Indonesian: Sabtu 77 Italian: Sabato 58 Maltese: is-Sibt > 1 Polish: Sobota 39 Portuguese: Scibado 215 Romanian: Sambata 26 Russian: Subbota 166 Serbian: Subota 9 Slovak: Sobota 5 Slovene: Sobota 2 Somali: Sabti 15 Spanish: Sabado 399 Ukrainian: Subota 40

This is just a few countries but there is one more that is important:
sabato (from the Latin for “Sabbath”) Days of the Week Origins

Blessings!

[Gustave]

6 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

You have not going over this with me Gustave. Maybe someone else. Let me make this very clear. [A] First, of it is not Universally understood because their are many others beside SDA that keep the Sabbath. It's only understood by those who have close minds and want to do what they want to do. [B]Men have laws and others do not want to keep their laws universally. Fine, don't keep the Sabbath and do not ask YAHWEH or HIS SON to permit you into Heaven.

[C]In Matt 22:36, the Pharisees were trying to catch YAHSHUA off guard. Evidently, you did not read what HE Said because if you did you would understand to love ELOHIYM  you would obey HIM. This means not to make graven images, not to worship idols of any kind, to keep HIS Sabbath, Honor and keep HIS HOLY and correct  NAME! Then if you love your neighbor like yourself; you will honor and respect your mother, dad, elderly! You will be kind and not covet, nor steal, nor lie against your neighbors. There you have it YAHWEH First and then second is your neighbor which is the Commandments all universally should know and understand that. Most chooses not so, do not be surprise when HE chooses not to let you into the Gate of the New City. Rev 22:14 It appears it said Commandments in that Scriptures too! So, Gustave I hope I made it clear!

Blessings!

[Stinsonmarri, you are making a judgment of Gustave that God has not given you the authority to make.  It is possible that Gustave will never come to keep the Sabbath, as you and I believe, but we will also find that Gustave joins us in that future eternity with God.  You are quite judgmental and you turn people away from your message.  Why should anyone listen to you when you treat them like you have done to Gustave?  Gregory Matthews]

 

 

A. Many "Adventist" groups you mean to say, excepting 7th day Baptists and some pho-Jewish groups it's all Adventist. Granted not 7th day Adventist but Adventist nonetheless. 

B. People like to imagine all kinds of things and "shake-N-bake" those musings into churches they claim God started. 

C. Jesus wasn't lying when He ranked the two commandments He referenced - in addition to that you really should re-read Acts 15 Verse 6 on on:

"The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.  And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. And God who knows the heart bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us; and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith.  Now therefore why do you make trial of God by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" 

The yoke was what separated the Gentiles from the Jews - "THE LAW", every command within the 1st 5 Books of the Bible. We know from history that other nations apart from the Jews "had laws" pertaining to theft, murder, adultry, etc. so we KNOW it wasn't THOSE LAWS that were considered to be a yoke. "THE YOKE" was the distinctive laws common to the Jewish people that were not observed by Gentiles. That would include the Sabbath, the Day of Atonement, etc. 

Every once in a while I seem to have to step in and help jerk you off the Farrakhan track (which I'm happy to do). 

 

 

 

[stinsonmarri]

6 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Stinsonmarri, you are making a judgment of Gustave that God has not given you the authority to make.  It is possible that Gustave will never come to keep the Sabbath, as you and I believe, but we will also find that Gustave joins us in that future eternity with God.  You are quite judgmental and you turn people away from your message.  Why should anyone listen to you when you treat them like you have done to Gustave?  Gregory Matthews]

Dear Pastor Matthew: Stated: "We've been over this before Stinsonmarri, the 1st 5 Books of the Bible were / are universally understood to be "THE LAW".. The Commandments are within the 1st 5 Books of "The Law". That is reprimanding me which is a form of judging. But that fine with you. First, I do not recall going over the Commandments with me and if he did he could have address it better. I am not making a judgement on Gustave the Bible condemns. I gave him Rev 22:14 and it states exactly what I said. We are not to be ashamed but to speak truth exactly as it is read in the Bible. 

 For THE WORD of ELOHIYM is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb 4:12

Please, I ask of you stop saying I am judging because I am not. When I say, that YAHWEH will not invite someone into the Gates if they don't keep the Commandment; am I not telling the truth according to the Bible? I never say anything unless I quote it or give Scriptures. Gustave is very judgmental of SDA without merit. We need to stand and present the Bible that is a two-edged sword. Truth hurts but if want to spread it I cannot change it! I can pray and ask THE HOLY SPIRIT to change him and I do. Thank you sir!

Kindly regards and blessings!

[GHansen]

7 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

The word Decalogue is Greek which means:10 Commandments.  by Oxford Languages I did quote it and GHasen you know that I did. I will repeat it very clear and direct. The Bible says that Abraham kept YAHWEH'S Commandments that is plain and simple. Nothing else needs to be said. You do not want to accept it. That is plain and simple! Others beside me have stated plain and simple that sin is breaking the Commandments. It is fruitless to discuss this subject any further because you said that you can read. Paul never mention Moses in the Scripture you provided. Moses never made any Laws, never he wrote all of what YAHWEH told him to write. Even the sacrifice Laws were given to the Adams. YAHWEH made those Laws more detail to Moses and there you have it. The subject is done!

 

Stinson, You must know that the word Decalogue is not in the Bible.  

Neh. 9:13  Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
14  And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

These verses [above] say that right judgments, true laws, good statutes and commandments, including the Sabbath were given to Israel through Moses, agreed?

Galatians 3:16  Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his descendants as a covenant. He did not say, To your descendants, as of many, but, To your descendants, as one, that is Christ.
17  And this I say, that the covenant which was previously confirmed of God in Christ cannot be repudiated and the promise nullified by the law which came four hundred and thirty years later.

These verses [above ]say that the covenant/ promise made with/to Abraham took place 430  years  before Israel received the "law."  It was  a covenant based on promise not law. Do you agree with that?

Romans 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13  (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

These verses say that even though there was sin in the world before Moses,  sin was not counted against people because there was no law. Do you agree with that?

[stinsonmarri]

5 minutes ago, Gustave said:

 

A. Many "Adventist" groups you mean to say, excepting 7th day Baptists and some pho-Jewish groups it's all Adventist. Granted not 7th day Adventist but Adventist nonetheless. 

B. People like to imagine all kinds of things and "shake-N-bake" those musings into churches they claim God started. 

C. Jesus wasn't lying when He ranked the two commandments He referenced - in addition to that you really should re-read Acts 15 Verse 6 on on:

"The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.  And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. And God who knows the heart bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us; and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith.  Now therefore why do you make trial of God by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" 

The yoke was what separated the Gentiles from the Jews - "THE LAW", every command within the 1st 5 Books of the Bible. We know from history that other nations apart from the Jews "had laws" pertaining to theft, murder, adultry, etc. so we KNOW it wasn't THOSE LAWS that were considered to be a yoke. "THE YOKE" was the distinctive laws common to the Jewish people that were not observed by Gentiles. That would include the Sabbath, the Day of Atonement, etc. 

Every once in a while I seem to have to step in and help jerk you off the Farrakhan track (which I'm happy to do). 

 

 

 

Gustave: That does not change what I have said to you. You tried to use what the Children of IsraEL did when they worship a person over YAHWEH! I have ask you kindly before to stop saying I am on some Farrakhan track. Why do you continue to do that? Because I am a Black Woman that stand up to you! You know that my faith is in Seventh Sabbath of the Bible and Adventist means looking for the second coming of YAHSHUA! Farrakhan is a Muslim and believe totally against what I believe in. His book the he calls holy is the Koran!

Getting back to Moses, YAHWEH had to hide his burial or they would have made it a shrine. So, Satan had them to become delusional and believe a lie. Moses did not have any laws. So, what you do come with this. Let's read the whole thing:

But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago ELOHIYM made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the Good News, and believe.  And ELOHIYM, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the HOLY SPIRIT, even as HE did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye ELOHIYM, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of THE MASTER  YAHSHUA THE MESSIAH we shall be saved, even as they. Act 15:5-11 

I will repeat again the Greek word law means:

Nomos, (Greek: “law,” or “custom”, ) pluraloi, in law, the concept of law in ancient Greek philosophy. Nomos | Greek philosophy | Britannica (Sources of Greek Biblical meanings will come from other sources then the Strong.)

The Commandments are called:

Decalogue (n.) "Ten Commandments," late 14c., from Latin decalogus, from Greek dekalogos, from the phrase hoi deka logoi used to translate "Ten Commandments" in Septuagint. Online Etymology Dictionary

Also known as the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments are recorded in the Old Testament of the Bible, where they are revealed to Moses on Mt. Sinai and carved into two stone tablets. A commandment is a rule or mandate, especially a divine one. 2021 Dictionary.com  

I would kindly suggest that you understand the differences of the two! Secondly, the law of Moses were what YAHWEH told Moses to write down. Please, read Ex Chapter 25-31. This is when the sacrifices that the Adams, Able, Noah, Abraham all did which was given by YAHWEH now was extended in more detail. Because a pattern of The Heavenly Sanctuary was to be done. I hope that is clear. 

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

23 minutes ago, GHansen said:

Stinson, You must know that the word Decalogue is not in the Bible.  

Neh. 9:13  Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
14  And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

These verses [above] say that right judgments, true laws, good statutes and commandments, including the Sabbath were given to Israel through Moses, agreed?

Galatians 3:16  Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his descendants as a covenant. He did not say, To your descendants, as of many, but, To your descendants, as one, that is Christ.
17  And this I say, that the covenant which was previously confirmed of God in Christ cannot be repudiated and the promise nullified by the law which came four hundred and thirty years later.

These verses [above ]say that the covenant/ promise made with/to Abraham took place 430  years  before Israel received the "law."  It was  a covenant based on promise not law. Do you agree with that?

Romans 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13  (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

These verses say that even though there was sin in the world before Moses,  sin was not counted against people because there was no law. Do you agree with that?

I did that deliberate, to show what you state is not either. No, what is written clearly is the Commandments. I just wanted to show what word that has be used here meant the Commandments which is in the Bible. Simple showing exactly what the Greek word means. YAHWEH WROTE on HIS FINGER twice The Commandments and this was place in the Ark of The Covenant. No one has ever found it, but it will be reveal at the end of time. Rev 11-13 I hope clearly you will now know the differences in the two meanings.

Blessings!

[Gregory Matthews]

Stinsonmarri, said in the quote below:

*  You applied that directly to Gustave.

*  God has not informed you as to exactly what the Holy spirit has convicted Gustave.  You do not know whether or not Gustave is keeping all of the commandments on which the Holy Spirit has convicted him.

*   Irregardless of you extensive claimed knowledge of the Biblical teachings, I can not imagine that you presently know everything that God wants you to know.  I suspect that you, just like me, have much more to learn as the Holy Spirit continues to work on you and I to teach us.  

*  So, the reality is that you and I, both of us can correctly be charged with violating (breaking) God's will (law) for us.  But, if either of us were to die today, we   would not be kept out of God's kingdom for something that the Holy Spirit had not taught us.

*  God has not given you knowledge of the salvation of any other person.  you simply do not know what the Holy Spirit has convicted them.  So, no, you are not telling the truth according to Scripture when you claim to have knowledge that God has not given you.

Quote

 

 When I say, that YAHWEH will not invite someone into the Gates if they don't keep the Commandment; am I not telling the truth according to the Bible? 

[GHansen]

3 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I did that deliberate, to show what you state is not either. No, what is written clearly is the Commandments. I just wanted to show what word that has be used here meant the Commandments which is in the Bible. Simple showing exactly what the Greek word means. YAHWEH WROTE on HIS FINGER twice The Commandments and this was place in the Ark of The Covenant. No one has ever found it, but it will be reveal at the end of time. Rev 11-13 I hope clearly you will now know the differences in the two meanings.

Blessings!

Stinson, In the KJV the expression "Ten Commandments"  appears 3 times: 

Ex 34:28  And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. [τους the  δέκα ten λόγους words.]
De 4:13  And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, [even] ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. [τα the δέκα  ten ρήματα]
De 10:4  And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me. [τους the δέκα ten  λόγους words]

The Greek word for "commandments" [εντολη] isn't mentioned when the  ten commandments are mentioned  in the KJV.  The Greek of the OT basically calls the Decalogue the 10 words or 10 sayings of God.

[Gustave]

On 7/5/2021 at 10:27 AM, stinsonmarri said:

I need to mention this too. I will like to make it clear. Torah means in Hebrew the  teaching, direction, guidance. Yes, Moses wrote down the five book as a scribe what YAHWEH told him to write. Ex 24: 3, 7; 31:18; 34:1, 28  If you read, it also said that YAHWEH wrote the Testimony, Covenant, Commandments. I hope that is clear for you to understand.

I also want to clearly give you something universally understood. That is the Sabbath.

Languages where Saturday is call the Sabbath for Centuries

(Number of speakers in millions, rounded) Arabic: as-Sabtu 280 Armenian: Shabbat 6 Bosnian: Subota 2 Bulgarian: Sobota 7 Corsican: Sabatu > 1 Croatian: Subota 6 Czech: Sobota 10 Georgian: Sabati 4 Greek: Savvato 13 Indonesian: Sabtu 77 Italian: Sabato 58 Maltese: is-Sibt > 1 Polish: Sobota 39 Portuguese: Scibado 215 Romanian: Sambata 26 Russian: Subbota 166 Serbian: Subota 9 Slovak: Sobota 5 Slovene: Sobota 2 Somali: Sabti 15 Spanish: Sabado 399 Ukrainian: Subota 40

This is just a few countries but there is one more that is important:
sabato (from the Latin for “Sabbath”) Days of the Week Origins

Blessings!

 

This is a feeble logic chain Stinson.  

"Shabattum" in ancient Babylon only occasionally fell on what would be a Gregorian Saturday. How does this work out for your logic chain? 

 

 

 

[stinsonmarri]

On 7/5/2021 at 10:15 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

Stinsonmarri, said in the quote below:

*  You applied that directly to Gustave.

*  God has not informed you as to exactly what the Holy spirit has convicted Gustave.  You do not know whether or not Gustave is keeping all of the commandments on which the Holy Spirit has convicted him.

*   Irregardless of you extensive claimed knowledge of the Biblical teachings, I can not imagine that you presently know everything that God wants you to know.  I suspect that you, just like me, have much more to learn as the Holy Spirit continues to work on you and I to teach us.  

*  So, the reality is that you and I, both of us can correctly be charged with violating (breaking) God's will (law) for us.  But, if either of us were to die today, we   would not be kept out of God's kingdom for something that the Holy Spirit had not taught us.

*  God has not given you knowledge of the salvation of any other person.  you simply do not know what the Holy Spirit has convicted them.  So, no, you are not telling the truth according to Scripture when you claim to have knowledge that God has not given you.

Pastor Matthew: "You stated: It is possible that Gustave will never come to keep the Sabbath, as you and I believe, but we will also find that Gustave joins us in that future eternity with God." 

Pastor I responded to what you said: "I can pray and ask THE HOLY SPIRIT to change him and I do."

Never have I ever said I know everything in the Bible. I am still learning things today! However, I am a Biblical Historian do you know everything about being a Chaplain or a minister before you retired? You just like me is ever learning and growing in our field of studies. However, it is sad that you now question me.

Being honest Pastor: I have no power to say if you or I die today we will be kept out of the Kingdom. I am not the judge, THE FATHER IS. I have said that over and over, HE Looks at the mind of each of us. YAHSHUA did said as man thinking so is he. Do not put me in THEIR Position. I am flesh! What I do know that the Bible said we must keep all the Commandments. I believe what the Bible says. We must stop sinning here on this earth that is clear to me. Well, I guess  we differ on that. That is why we must choose, which is a choice.

Again, we disagree we all have the knowledge of understanding. The knowledge of salvation is explain in the Bible. So you are not only calling me to be untruthful but also the Bible. I accept the knowledge of salvation according to these Scriptures:

Ps 50:23; Luke 1:77; Act 4:12; 2Co 7:10; Eph 1:13; 1Th 5:8; 2Th 2:13; 1Peter 1:5; Jude 1:3; Rev 12:10

I do not claim know everything in the Bible that you have accuse me of. I have stood and given Scriptures in the Bible that I do know. I also ask everyone to read it for themselves. It appears that you and I have a problem. It always me and anything I said and it has become worse when I disagreed with you. I am striving for perfection and by THE GRACE of THE MOST HIGH and my faith. Then through THE POWER of THE HOLY SPIRIT I will be saved. That is what salvation is and it will comes when YAHSHUA returns; when we STOP SINNING. We all must choose truth but we want things our way. It does not work that way. Sometime, we have to stand alone through opposition. I will always respect you, but I must differ with you when it come to what the Bible says. I have been call names and other things and you do not speak about that. It's alright, but I wanted it to be known as well here too.

Remember these words from the Bible that I leave you with. Sin is the transgression of the Law or Commandments.

 To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them. Isa 8:20

 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of ELOHIYM, and have the Testimony of YAHSHUA. Rev 12:17

 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the Commandments of ELOHIYM, and the faith of YAHSHUA. Rev 14:12

 Blessed are they that do HIS Commandments, that they may have right to the Tree of LIFE, and may enter in through the Gates into the City. Rev 22:14

This is what we as SDA have being teaching and evangelizing. So, I guess we all have not being telling the truth too according to you Pastor Matthew!

Blessings!

[GHansen]

Stinson, The word "commandments" in the writings of John does not refer to the Decalogue.  the "commandments" in John's writings refer to the teachings of Christ. Throwing down a list of verses without understanding what those verses mean is a most unfortunate practice, one of which most of have been guilty. There is not a single verse in John's writings which connects the "commandments" with the Decalogue. 

46  I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49  For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50  And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Notice that the words  Jesus spoke, he was commanded by the Father to speak. We will be judged by those words in the last day. The words are the teachings of Christ, commanded by the Father.  The words/teachings of Christ are what lead to everlasting life, not the Decalogue

[GHansen]

1 hour ago, stinsonmarri said:

Duplicate post.