Walter Veith

[GHansen]

9 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

 

[If your intent was to say that I said nothing worthwhile, I like the manner in which you said it--
Gregory Matthews.  } 

[Theophilus]

12 hours ago, GHansen said:

Since the law is in your heart, you are not trying to comply with an external code, what Paul refers to as "the letter." The law written in the heart is just another way of saying that God's spirit is in your heart. The story of the good Samaritan clearly reveals sin which is not revealed by the Decalogue. Which one of the Ten words did the priest and Levite break by ignoring the wounded man. They didn't violate the Decalogue by ignoring him. The rich young Ruler believed he was in good shape vis-a-vis the Decalogue, as did Paul prior to his Damascus road experience. There's nothing in the Decalogue which says we must believe in Jesus Christ or care for our fellow man beyond what is there required e.g., not steal, lie, etc.

 

Wow. I think your argument here shows a ton of thought, and I must say that I, when I read it, paced for awhile to come up with some kind of answer. It almost is like an essay question! Excellent!

 

The Good Samaritan is a parable, a response by the Lord to one who inquired about eternal life.

²⁵ And behold, a certain ^[a]lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

²⁶ He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”

²⁷ So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

²⁸ And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

²⁹ But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

³⁰ Then Jesus answered and said: “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among ^[b]thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. ³¹ Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. ³² Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side. ³³ But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion. ³⁴ So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. ³⁵ On the next day, ^[c]when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.’ ³⁶ So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?”

³⁷ And he said, “He who showed mercy on him.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise."

 

I do not think either the Levite or the priest sinned. They may have thought him dead, and unclean, or I don't know what else. But the Samaritan was used to show, even tho they were hated, that it was from this group one who put all fears away, and helped.

With respect to the rich young ruler, Matt19:16-22

¹⁶ Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good^[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

¹⁷ So He said to him, ^[b]“Why do you call Me good? ^[c]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

¹⁸ He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ¹⁹ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

²⁰ The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept ^[d]from my youth. What do I still lack?”

²¹ Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

²² But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.  

Jesus knew his heart, and I think he violated the 1st commandment "...no other gods before Me."  It was his money that kept him from following Jesus.

Paul was zealous (!) before his conversion. I have no doubt that he loved the Lord God the Father, and did not understand. Once his eyes were open, he changed. God looked at his heart. Had he not changed, it all would've been held against him. 

 

Acts 9

 Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest ² and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

³ As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. ⁴ Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

⁵ And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”

Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. ^[a]It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”

⁶ So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”

Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

⁷ And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one. ⁸ Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. ⁹ And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Ananias Baptizes Saul

¹⁰ Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.”

And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”

¹¹ So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. ¹² And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”

¹³ Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much ^[b]harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. ¹⁴ And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”

¹⁵ But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children^[c] of Israel. ¹⁶ For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

¹⁷ And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord ^[d]Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” ¹⁸ Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.

¹⁹ So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus.

Saul Preaches Christ

²⁰ Immediately he preached ^[e]the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.

²¹ Then all who heard were amazed, and said, “Is this not he who destroyed those who called on this name in Jerusalem, and has come here for that purpose, so that he might bring them bound to the chief priests?”

²² But Saul increased all the more in strength, and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that this Jesus is the Christ.

 

(I cannot tell you how much I enjoy studying with you. You really make one think, and I thank God for you. It makes folk put their minds on holy things, instead of worldly things.

Thank you. ♥)

[Gregory Matthews]

Let me be clear:  I have had a lot of contact with Gustave.  He is an honest person.  He can change his viewpoint and he is willing to admit that he has done so.  Yes, he and I differ on points of Biblical understanding.  It is likely that we will never agree on everything.  The bottom line is: He is welcome to come here and to post.  Others are welcome to debate him.  But, if you choose to do so, remain civil.  You can be frank and civil at the same time.  The post that I have removed from view went well beyond civil discussion.  If that type of post continues, I will continue to act on them.

NOTE:  I have removed from view a post that goes well beyond what I consider to be civil discussion. 

[Gustave]

11 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Gustave, your understanding of the so-called Great Controversy Theme is partially correct, and partially in error. 

*  It is not related to Adam and Eve being kicked out of Eden in the manner that I think you understand it.

*  Rather it arose in heaven prior to the creation of the Earth and Adam and Eve.

*   It began with a charge of Satan (Lucifer) that if given the choice, God's created beings would follow Lucifer rather than God.  That resulted in 1/3 of the created angels choosing to follow Satan and leaving heaven.

*  In context it should be understood that SDAs generally believe that outside of this solar system there are other planets in the universe that have intelligent life.  It is also believed that none of that intelligent life participated in this rebellion against God.

*  It is also thought that Satan's charge against God included the idea that if given a fair chance, intelligent life created by God on a planet would choose to follow Satan.

*  So, in the creation of intelligent life on Earth, after 1/3 of the angels had left heaven, Satan was given access to Adam and Eve at the so-called tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 

*  There at that tree, Eve decided that if she could become like God (Genesis 3:5) she would disobey God and follow the leading of Satan.  In effect, she wanted to create her own world.  

* Eve than discussed this with Adam (Genesis 3:6) who agreed with Eve.  With that agreement, Adam and Eve were given the opportunity to create their own world outside of Eden.

*  As a result, the world in which you and I live today is a consequence of the final decision of Adam to join Eve in attempting to act as God in creating their own world and in that process to follow the leading of Lucifer.

NOTE:  It should be noted that the expanded view that I have stated goes well beyond the clear teaching of the Bible.  The Biblical support for what I have stated in minimal.  It is a little bit more than I have referenced, but not much more.   Due to its minimal support in the Bible, SDA members are not required to believe it.

 

 

You could very well be right - here is where I was getting the idea (aside from the statements Herbert Douglas made). 

Pertaining directly to Lucifer

"In His dealing with sin, God could employ only righteousness and truth. Satan could use what God could not— flattery and deceit. He had sought to falsify the word of God and had misrepresented His plan of government before the angels, claiming that God was not just in laying laws and rules upon the inhabitants of heaven; that in requiring submission and obedience from His creatures, He was seeking merely the exaltation of Himself. Therefore it must be demonstrated before the inhabitants of heaven, as well as of all the worlds, that God's government was just, His law perfect. Satan had made it appear that he himself was seeking to promote the good of the universe. The true character of the usurper, and his real object, must be understood by all. He must have time to manifest himself by his wicked works." Great Controversy

 

Lucifer claiming Adam and Eve were treated ham-handedly 

"By the same misrepresentation of the character of God as he had practiced in heaven, causing Him to be regarded as severe and tyrannical, Satan induced man to sin. And having succeeded thus far, he declared that God's unjust restrictions had led to man's fall, as they had led to his own rebellion." Great Controversy

I seem to remember reading from Ellen White somewhere that Lucifer had charged that God's law was essentially developed so that God could 'flatter Himself' or something along those lines and that it was unfair that God really expect mankind to live by the Holy Law of God - I just need to find it. I think it was an article . 

 

 

 

[GHansen]

12 hours ago, GHansen said:

[If your intent was to say that I said nothing worthwhile, I like the manner in which you said it--
Gregory Matthews.  } 

Pastor Matthews, That was not my intent at all. I had started a post which became unwieldy but was unable to delete it; consequently, I cleared the field and was left with a blank space. Truth is that I don't like to make war upon EGW. Once in a while something slips out. 

 

[I was having a bit of fun with you.  I was not offended.  I Enjoyed it--Gregory Matthews.]  

[GHansen]

1 hour ago, Gustave said:

 

You could very well be right - here is where I was getting the idea (aside from the statements Herbert Douglas made). 

 

I might be wrong here but I associate the GC theme with Graham Maxwell, along with the "God is our friend" perspective. I may have just missed it but the evidence for the GC theme in Scripture is a bit thin, to make it the overriding theme of Scripture. Paradise Lost and Regained or The Fall and Restoration is a better fit for me. The idea that salvation is about vindicating the character of God rather than redeeming humanity is a bit stale. The sacrifice that Christ made on our behalf tells me what I need to know about God.

[Gustave]

5 hours ago, GHansen said:

I might be wrong here but I associate the GC theme with Graham Maxwell, along with the "God is our friend" perspective. I may have just missed it but the evidence for the GC theme in Scripture is a bit thin, to make it the overriding theme of Scripture. Paradise Lost and Regained or The Fall and Restoration is a better fit for me. The idea that salvation is about vindicating the character of God rather than redeeming humanity is a bit stale. The sacrifice that Christ made on our behalf tells me what I need to know about God.

I first heard the term (GC theme) from a video of Herbert Douglas in which he bemoaned the SDA participation of Questions on Doctrines. What Douglas said in that video was that an individual couldn't understand things without 1st understanding the GC Theme. 

Essentially my take on this GC theme was that Lucifer was upset that Christ was paid special honors by Father God, honors that Lucifer believed he was entitled to receive. Lucifer sneaks around and gets a significant following and gets kicked out of heaven. 

Fast forward to "earth" and Adam and Eve disobey God and are expelled out of Eden - Lucifer than points to that incident and basically says SEE, THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. God is too harsh and His law is to difficult to obey. This charge by Lucifer against God wounds God "Character" - Michael steps forward and volunteers to come to earth to try and  "vindicate" God's holy law and prove Lucifer was wrong. As I understand the teaching angels and hominid extra terrestrials (actual flesh and blood aliens) were watching this controversy between Lucifer and Michael (aka Christ) play out. 

Ellen White
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). Christ did not come to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. He did not come to lessen the law of God in one particular. He came to express in His own person the love of God. He came to vindicate every precept of the holy law.--Ms 145, 1897, p. 4. ("Notes of Work," Dec. 30, 1897.) {11MR 345.3}

Ellen White
The sum and substance of the arguments of Satan is that sin may be immortalized, that Christ abolished the law, and that evil doers may be in favor with God. But the death of Christ tells a different story; for he died to vindicate the claims of the law, to give to the world and to angels an unanswerable argument of the immutability of the law of Jehovah. {ST, February 5, 1894 par. 11}

Ellen White
To be redeemed means to cease from sin. No heart that is stirred to rebellion against the law of God has any union with Christ, who died to vindicate the law and exalt it before all nations, tongues, and peoples.

Ellen White R&H August 13, 1895, paragraph 6
Representing the law of God in its true character arouses the enmity of Satan. Those who love God with all the heart, will love the law of his kingdom. They will not only profess to be guided by its principles, but they will actually live them out, even in a world that is no more favorable to the development of Christian principles than were the inhabitants of the world before the flood, of whom it is written that the thoughts and imaginations of their hearts were evil, and only evil continually. A similar condition of society exists in our world today, and if those who claim to be God's commandment-keeping people do not put in practice the principles of the law which Christ came to our world to vindicate, pronouncing it holy, just, and good, they misrepresent the character and mission of their professed Master

Charles S Longacre
IF it were impossible for the Son of God to make a mistake or commit a sin, then His coming into this world and subjecting Himself to temptations were all a farce AND mere mockery. IF it were possible for Him to yield to temptation and fall into sin, then He MUST have risked heaven and His very existence, and EVEN all eternity. That is exactly what the Scriptures AND the Spirit of Prophecy say Christ, the Son of God did do when He came to work out for us a plan of salvation from the curse of sin.

IF Christ "risked all," EVEN His ETERNAL EXISTENCE in heaven, then there was a possibility of His being overcome by sin, and IF overcome by sin, He would have gone into Joseph's tomb and neither THAT tomb nor any other tomb would EVER have been opened. All would have been lost and HE would have suffered "eternal loss," the loss of ALL He ever possessed &; His DIVINITY AND His humanity and heaven itself would have been "lost & eternally lost

It was possible for one of the God-head to be lost, and eternally lost - and IF that had happened, and it WAS possible to happen, "God, the Father", would still have remained as the One and only absolute and living God, reigning supreme over all the unfallen worlds, but with all the human race blotted out of existence on this earth. The Deity of Christ’, paper presented to the Bible Research Fellowship Angwin, California January 1947, page 13 & 14)

 

 

[Gustave]

Just now, Gustave said:

I first heard the term (GC theme) from a video of Herbert Douglas in which he bemoaned the SDA participation of Questions on Doctrines. What Douglas said in that video was that an individual couldn't understand things without 1st understanding the GC Theme. 

Essentially my take on this GC theme was that Lucifer was upset that Christ was paid special honors by Father God, honors that Lucifer believed he was entitled to receive. Lucifer sneaks around and gets a significant following and gets kicked out of heaven. Again, this is my take on it - I could be wrong here. 

Fast forward to "earth" and Adam and Eve disobey God and are expelled out of Eden - Lucifer than points to that incident and basically says SEE, THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. God is too harsh and His law is to difficult to obey. This charge by Lucifer against God wounds God "Character" - Michael steps forward and volunteers to come to earth to try and  "vindicate" God's holy law and prove Lucifer was wrong. As I understand the teaching angels and hominid extra terrestrials (actual flesh and blood aliens) were watching this controversy between Lucifer and Michael (aka Christ) play out. 

Ellen White
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). Christ did not come to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. He did not come to lessen the law of God in one particular. He came to express in His own person the love of God. He came to vindicate every precept of the holy law.--Ms 145, 1897, p. 4. ("Notes of Work," Dec. 30, 1897.) {11MR 345.3}

Ellen White
The sum and substance of the arguments of Satan is that sin may be immortalized, that Christ abolished the law, and that evil doers may be in favor with God. But the death of Christ tells a different story; for he died to vindicate the claims of the law, to give to the world and to angels an unanswerable argument of the immutability of the law of Jehovah. {ST, February 5, 1894 par. 11}

Ellen White
To be redeemed means to cease from sin. No heart that is stirred to rebellion against the law of God has any union with Christ, who died to vindicate the law and exalt it before all nations, tongues, and peoples.

Ellen White R&H August 13, 1895, paragraph 6
Representing the law of God in its true character arouses the enmity of Satan. Those who love God with all the heart, will love the law of his kingdom. They will not only profess to be guided by its principles, but they will actually live them out, even in a world that is no more favorable to the development of Christian principles than were the inhabitants of the world before the flood, of whom it is written that the thoughts and imaginations of their hearts were evil, and only evil continually. A similar condition of society exists in our world today, and if those who claim to be God's commandment-keeping people do not put in practice the principles of the law which Christ came to our world to vindicate, pronouncing it holy, just, and good, they misrepresent the character and mission of their professed Master

Charles S Longacre
IF it were impossible for the Son of God to make a mistake or commit a sin, then His coming into this world and subjecting Himself to temptations were all a farce AND mere mockery. IF it were possible for Him to yield to temptation and fall into sin, then He MUST have risked heaven and His very existence, and EVEN all eternity. That is exactly what the Scriptures AND the Spirit of Prophecy say Christ, the Son of God did do when He came to work out for us a plan of salvation from the curse of sin.

IF Christ "risked all," EVEN His ETERNAL EXISTENCE in heaven, then there was a possibility of His being overcome by sin, and IF overcome by sin, He would have gone into Joseph's tomb and neither THAT tomb nor any other tomb would EVER have been opened. All would have been lost and HE would have suffered "eternal loss," the loss of ALL He ever possessed &; His DIVINITY AND His humanity and heaven itself would have been "lost & eternally lost

It was possible for one of the God-head to be lost, and eternally lost - and IF that had happened, and it WAS possible to happen, "God, the Father", would still have remained as the One and only absolute and living God, reigning supreme over all the unfallen worlds, but with all the human race blotted out of existence on this earth. The Deity of Christ’, paper presented to the Bible Research Fellowship Angwin, California January 1947, page 13 & 14)

 

 

 

[GHansen]

2 minutes ago, Gustave said:

I first heard the term (GC theme) from a video of Herbert Douglas in which he bemoaned the SDA participation of Questions on Doctrines. What Douglas said in that video was that an individual couldn't understand things without 1st understanding the GC Theme. 

 

 

Herb Douglass and Graham Maxwell, as nice and charming as they both were, exerted a toxic influence on the theology of  Adventism. You can always count on EGW to turn almost any biblical topic into a  mandate on Commandment keeping and the immutable character of God's law. I don't buy it. My recollection of Maxwell's teaching goes back to the mid 70s but  the details are foggy. What Douglass is saying, if you represent him aright, is that the Bible can not be properly understood apart from EGW. I don't buy that either. I was acquainted with 3 of the Maxwell brothers. Each one was a princely example of  gracious Christianity.

[GHansen]

Here's a link to a group promoting Dr. Graham Maxwell's teachings: Welcome to Pine Knoll Publications

[stinsonmarri]

On 7/12/2021 at 1:42 AM, Gustave said:

Essentially my take on this GC theme was that Lucifer was upset that Christ was paid special honors by Father God, honors that Lucifer believed he was entitled to receive. Lucifer sneaks around and gets a significant following and gets kicked out of heaven. 

Fast forward to "earth" and Adam and Eve disobey God and are expelled out of Eden - Lucifer than points to that incident and basically says SEE, THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. God is too harsh and His law is to difficult to obey. This charge by Lucifer against God wounds God "Character" - Michael steps forward and volunteers to come to earth to try and  "vindicate" God's holy law and prove Lucifer was wrong. As I understand the teaching angels and hominid extra terrestrials (actual flesh and blood aliens) were watching this controversy between Lucifer and Michael (aka Christ) play out. 

The Bible itself states what happen to Lucifer. Lucifer was the high and lofty angel with great powers. He was created remarkable and none of the angels had his power, intellect and beauty. He was design with great love and beauty.

Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the SOVEREIGN YAHWEH; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of ELOHIYM; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Eze 28:12, 13 WOY

The Great King of Tyre a Canaanite who knew YAHWEH had ways just like Lucifer and Ezekiel went to the Phoenician to warned him of his fall. The example giving, was to provide him the story of the fall of Lucifer. No angel in Heaven had the pipe to sing like Lucifer and also sound like a drum and tambourines. Now, that is amazing! He also able to walk through stones of fire and that was because what was made for.

Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon The Holy Mountain of ELOHIYM; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Eze 28:14, 15 WOY

All created being had the power of choice, they were not robots. THE ALMIGHTY TRIO in Heaven wanted love and obedience to be a choice freely! That is why YAHSHUA do THE WILL of HIS FATHER that HE WILLINGLY keeps HIS COMMANDMENTS. John 5:10 The angels were created to be ministering spirits. They had to be tested just like the Adam's. It was time to give MICHAEL, HIS proper acknowledgement.

In many ways and in various ways of old, ELOHIYM Spoke to the fathers in the prophets; in these last days HE has spoken to us in the SON, whom HE Appointed HEIR of all; and by whom HE Made the worlds; for HE is THE BRIGHTNESS of HIS GLORY, and THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS BEING, and Upholding all things by the POWER of HIS WORD; having made purification of our sins through HIMSELF, HE sat down on THE RIGHT HAND of THE MAJESTY ON HIGH, and HE iS altogether SUPERIOR to the cherubs, just as THE NAME HE has INHERITED is a more EXCELLENT NAME than theirs. Heb 1:3-4 HRB

These Texts of Scriptures are simple and clear. That Michael being THE ARCHANGEL was unusually and HE was not known to Lucifer and the angels that HE was THE SON and that HE created them and everything that was made throughout the universe. Now, it was time for HIM to take HIS Place beside HIS FATHER and for all to know in HEAVEN WHO HE IS, THE FATHER'S SON. The word begotten is from the Greek, that cannot truly explain the existence of THE THREE ALMIGHTY ONES and THE LIKENESS of THE FATHER and THE SON. The Bible says the secret things belong to THEM and THEY reveal what we need to know. THEY BOTH have made it very clear THEY have alway EXISTED!

When Lucifer, thinking he was the next powerful being, made different then all the angels. He knew THE FATHER and THE HOLY SPIRIT were ALMIGHTY and the he was next and being the covering angels, leaving YAHWEH'S PRESENCE, his body glowed with THE SHEKINAH GLORY, that came from THE FATHER. Like Moses who had to cover his face from the people. The angels had to use their wings to cover themselves; when Lucifer came from THE HOLY and POWERFUL PRESENCE of THE FATHER! That is how he was made to capture HIS GLORY by the precious stones made on his chest! There is so much we do not know! We do know when Lucifer realize he was made by MICHAEL, this got to him. He thought he would be elevated to be equal with THE FATHER. He realized this was never gone to happen and that's when he fail his test!

To such as keep HIS COVENANT, and to those that remember HIS COMMANDMENTS to do them. YAHWEH hath prepared HIS Throne in the heavens; and HIS Kingdom ruleth over all. Bless YAHWEH, ye HIS angels, that excel in strength, that do HIS Commandments, hearkening unto the VOICE of HIS WORD. Psa 103:18-20  

Because the Hebrew word "piqqûd," which means mandate and the other word is "dâbâr," many would like to make them a problem. YAHWEH WORD, when HE speaks it is a Law forever unless HE SAYS otherwise. The proof is the sun and the moon that I spoke about before. Not only them but everything that is in space is standing and rotating on what?

To finalize, Lucifer thought he could win not only the angels but the other unfallen worlds. That is why it is funny that people here think those beings want to come here, they don't! We know they exist and we want to get to them and we won't! That is why he thought he could become higher than THE FATHER, he couldn't and was kicked out. This earth was not made yet, he knew it was going to be. Job proved that! Job 38:4-7

No one could tell the story like the Bible, if only we would read it!

Happy Sabbath!