Moderators Gerr Posted July 23, 2006 Moderators Share Posted July 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Robert said: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Gerry Cabalo said: It is not good news if it does nothing to change an evil person to become good. Gerry <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> The Bible doesn't say that it's not good news IF....The gospel is the unconditional good news of Christ saving the human race in Himself. Please don't add to his perfect righteousness. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"]Of course the gospel is conditional. If not, then no one is lost! Or is it your belief too that no one is lost? [:"red"] [/] IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all our unrighteousness. 1 Jn 1:9 NKJ. For IF you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But IF you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mt 6:14,15 NKJ. IF anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. Rev 3:20 NKJ. IF you are willing and obedient, You shall eat the good of the land; But IF you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword; For the mouth of the LORD has spoken. Isa 1:19,20 NKJ. [/] God will not force the gospel on anyone. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted July 23, 2006 Moderators Share Posted July 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Robert said: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Gerry Cabalo said:"And the LORD said to Abram after Lot had separated from him: 'Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are - northward, southward, eastward, and westward; for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants FOREVER." Gen 13:14,15 NKJ. Gerry <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Yes and that was on condition of accepting Jesus Christ....After the Jews, through legalism, refused Jesus Christ and by default the gospel, Christ turned to the Gentile world. We are to deliver the gospel both to the Jew and Greek. So that land thing means nothing....It's worthless dirt! Rob <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"]I see no condition to THAT promise. [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planey Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Shane said: Justifiable war is about defense, not revenge. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> It seems that people end up just as dead either way. Children end up just as mangled either way. Families end up torn apart either way. Land mines are buried to kill and maim up to the third and fourth generation either way. The image of a loving God is well nigh obliterated either way. Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 23, 2006 Author Share Posted July 23, 2006 This is true. The same can be said of justifiable divorce. People still get hurt, even though it is justifiable. Focusing back on the topic, I do believe Israel had a right to respond but I think their response is disproportionate. And now they want to create a buffer zone in southern Lebanon which didn't work before. What has worked for them is the wall they are building along the West Bank. Maybe they should build such a wall along their border with Lebanon. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 What good is a wall gonna do when the other side is firing rockets? Unless it's a mighty high wall, lol. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/bluejump.gif" alt="" /> Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Shane said: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> He taught not to kill. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> He taught not to murder and that hatred in the heart comes before murder. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Oh boy...here we go with trying to differentiate between to kill and to murder. It doesn't fly, Shane! Tell me where Jesus killed or murdered anyone? By the way, in the human sense Jesus was completely justified to stop His murders/killers from doing Him damage, but He didn't! Why? He came to show the character of God. He came to show a God who doesn't get [censored]...a God who would rather die than the damage one hair of His worst enemy. What would you do, Shane, if your church buddies decided that you needed to be killed/murdered because they saw you as one controlled by Satan. Let's assume you are completely innocent. They are dragging you off to muder/kill you. Now too them they are just following God's instruction, so it's nothing personal. You just happen to have a concealed pistol with you. What are you going to do? </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> He taught that it was better to die than to seek revenge. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Justifiable war is about defense, not revenge. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Sure...look at those pictures again. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Gerry Cabalo said:</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Robert said: Of course the gospel is conditional. If not, then no one is lost! <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> "In Christ" all men have been legally saved. So from God's point of view the gospel is unconditinal. The problem is that many reject this truth.... Please start another thread for this is <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/129933-offtopic2.gif" alt="" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Gerry Cabalo said: I see no condition to THAT promise. Gerry <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Start another thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Planey said: The image of a loving God is well nigh obliterated either way. Graeme <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> That's exactly why Jesus said, "all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 23, 2006 Author Share Posted July 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> What good is a wall gonna do when the other side is firing rockets? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> This episode didn't start with rockets, it started with a comando attack and kidnapping. The wall along the West Bank has been very effective in reducing terrorist attacks in the area where it has been erected. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 23, 2006 Author Share Posted July 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> here we go with trying to differentiate between to kill and to murder. It doesn't fly, Shane! <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> There is a big difference. Those that do not grasp the difference between killing and murder are not going to be able to understand the ideas and opinions expressed in any healthy discussion about war. </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Tell me where Jesus killed or murdered anyone? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> During His lifetime ministry Jesus did not kill anyone. However soon after His accent to heaven Ananias and Sapphira were killed for lying and holding back offerings they had promised to God. The interesting thing I observe about the life of Christ is that Christ never got angry when people harmed Him. However He got angry when people harmed others. We tend to be the opposite. We don't get angry when we see others getting harmed but get quite angry when someone harms us. Many of the young men and women that defend their nation at war do so for ultralistic reasons, not selfish ones. They put themselves at risk so others can enjoy security. While a certain percentage of them will always be bad apples, it is wrong for us to label them murderers in the same way as a criminal that kills someone is. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Shane said: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> here we go with trying to differentiate between to kill and to murder. It doesn't fly, Shane! <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> There is a big difference. Those that do not grasp the difference between killing and murder are not going to be able to understand the ideas and opinions expressed in any healthy discussion about war. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> You are justifying sin! </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Tell me where Jesus killed or murdered anyone? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> During His lifetime ministry Jesus did not kill anyone. However soon after His accent to heaven Ananias and Sapphira were killed for lying and holding back offerings they had promised to God. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> So we are back to God kills? Let's look at what you're laying at the door of the Lord: "Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God.” 5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came upon all who heard of it. 6 And the young men arose and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him." Does it say that God killed Ananias? No, that's your spin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Shane said: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> here we go with trying to differentiate between to kill and to murder. It doesn't fly, Shane! <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> There is a big difference. Those that do not grasp the difference between killing and murder are not going to be able to understand the ideas and opinions expressed in any healthy discussion about war. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Shane, If you want to justify "killing" go to this thread: "Examining God’s character – His attributes...." Prepare to lose! <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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