Will Religious Org. Be Required To Force Employees To Receive Vaccine

[bonnie]

Private Employers Prepare Lawsuits Against Biden’s Vaccine Mandate (breitbart.com)

As our denomination is not opposed to vaccines on religious grounds will SDA employees be forced by the org.to receive vaccine or lose their job

 

Private employers have already declared they will file lawsuits against President Joe Biden’s authoritarian nationwide vaccine mandate for private companies with over 100 employees.

On Thursday, President Biden implemented a new mandate that requires all companies that employ over 100 employees to enforce a vaccine requirement on their workers. Biden’s mandate ignores individuals who have already had coronavirus and have built immunity to the illness.

 

[GHansen]

When Mao came to power in China, Shanghai had so much venereal disease a doctor could make a living treating  just that. George Hatem, known in China as Ma Haide, was a Lebanese American physician who headed up the public health department of the new regime. Taking advantage of totalitarianism, after identifying the location of various houses of ill repute, a time was arranged when authorities would descend on these places and simply give, by force if necessary, antibiotic injections to the women. It was a very effective public health policy, something severely lacking in the States.

[bonnie]

5 minutes ago, GHansen said:

When Mao came to power in China, Shanghai had so much venereal disease a doctor could make a living treating  just that. George Hatem, known in China as Ma Haide, was a Lebanese American physician who headed up the public health department of the new regime. Taking advantage of totalitarianism, after identifying the location of various houses of ill repute, a time was arranged when authorities would descend on these places and simply give, by force if necessary, antibiotic injections to the women. It was a very effective public health policy, something severely lacking in the States.

I am sorry, maybe I missed something but what does your answer have to do with my question?

The below was my question

As our denomination is not opposed to vaccines on religious grounds will SDA employees be forced by the org.to receive vaccine or lose their job?

I don't think the SDA org. will be influenced by Mao. Will our denomination force vaccinations or face job loss?

[GHansen]

Government mandates for the good of the larger community are indicators of a proactive government doing what it should do to protect the group. When individual rights put the community at risk, they should be curtailed. If teachers in SDA schools refuse to get vaccinated, they should lose their jobs, as should other employees. There is a price to pay for exercising one's  individual rights. If I have the right to refuse a vaccine, then my employer should have the right to terminate my employment.

[Gregory Matthews]

Bonnie has asked a good question, that remains to be answered.  IOW, i do not know the answer to her question.

However, I will point out that for many years the SDA denomination has required that people sponsored by the Church to go as missionaries be vaccinated in a manner that depended upon the country to which they were going.

 

[bonnie]

Thank you Gregory for answering a question.

For some reason there are some that think a answer to a straight forward question requires a lecture or history lesson.

I am not opposed to vaccines in any way but have a bit of sympathy for those that are. Hopefully this vaccine does not come back to bite us in years to come or that the risk of side effects is preferable to the risk of the disease. 

With some chronic diseases being treated as all "in the head" for years and suddenly they become recognized as chronic disease people have become a little cynical

Many have little faith in what CDC says or the ever changing opinions on covid.

[bonnie]

9 hours ago, GHansen said:

Government mandates for the good of the larger community are indicators of a proactive government doing what it should do to protect the group

This is a statement that will come back to bite a good many people in the time to come.

"Relax, I am from the government and this is for your own good " is not something  we will want to hear

[Gregory Matthews]

I have the same question that Bonnie has as to SDA employees forced to get vaccinated.

I am attempting to get an answer.  I do not know if I will receive an answer.

 

 

[bonnie]

I don't recall the amount of penalty but it was hefty for employers that don't comply. So it is kind of the rock and the hard place. If the SDA org. stands it's ground and refuses to force their employees they may be fined a large sum of money. Knowing what we as a denomination believe conditions will be as we get closer and  closer to the end will the org. bend to the dictates of government. Are the demands of the government reasonable and we should willingly comply or should we be free to refuse medical procedures?  That old camel is getting his nose further and further under the tent,

Several times the idea has been promoted that those that refuse vaccination be denied medical care if they should need it.  At least one Dr has refused treatment to unvaccinated patients and others claim they are planning on it. 

What happened to the idea that medical care is a RIGHT? Or is it a right only for those that comply with government demands?

How hypocritical when it comes to something as critical as abortion the response is "How dare you tell a woman what she will do with her own body" but yet man, woman and child can be told by the government what the government will do with their body.

 

It isnt surprising to me that those that believe differently than we do embrace force by the government but the number of SDA that do is mind boggling

 

 

[stinsonmarri]

On 9/11/2021 at 7:57 PM, bonnie said:

Private Employers Prepare Lawsuits Against Biden’s Vaccine Mandate (breitbart.com)

As our denomination is not opposed to vaccines on religious grounds will SDA employees be forced by the org.to receive vaccine or lose their job

 

Private employers have already declared they will file lawsuits against President Joe Biden’s authoritarian nationwide vaccine mandate for private companies with over 100 employees.

On Thursday, President Biden implemented a new mandate that requires all companies that employ over 100 employees to enforce a vaccine requirement on their workers. Biden’s mandate ignores individuals who have already had coronavirus and have built immunity to the illness.

 

All of my young life, I had to have vaccines mandated. We are mandated to have driver license for a car. Seat belts are required or mandated, you  have to stop at a stop sign, can't park anywhere you choose. Public health is something that everyone should want. People and children are dying. I work for the unemployment and people have told me they are scared to go to work. They want a job but do not want the COVID. I have heard complaints since last year of people quitting because of the health conditions on the job were not followed and they have certain illness and others just do not care!

What have this world come to? Why are we not concern about our neighbor or our children's or their children's. Then you want to threaten people's life over masking? If we do not realize the time we are living in then I am overwhelm. Louisiana hot and with no lights or air, the same in parts of Mississippi. Floods, Tornados, Fires across this country along with the pandemic, this is so unreal to me! Please YAHSHUA, change me and others, forgive us and help us to keep your Commandments. I pray to have the Testimony of YAHSHUA! I know that the Time of Trouble is upon us let us all here be ready before it's to late! Please, let YOUR WILL be done for those who want stop sinning and to believe on YOUR WORD in YAHSHUA'S NAME AMEN!

That's my prayer and I not trying to be rude, but truly concern about loving each other!

Blessings to all on this forum, pray for me as I pray for you.

[GHansen]

10 hours ago, bonnie said:

For some reason there are some that think a answer to a straight forward question requires a lecture or history lesson.

How about a microbiology course instead?

[bonnie]

36 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

All of my young life, I had to have vaccines mandated. We are mandated to have driver license for a car. Seat belts are required or mandated, you  have to stop at a stop sign, can't park anywhere you choose. Public health is something that everyone should want. People and children are dying. I work for the unemployment and people have told me they are scared to go to work. They want a job but do not want the COVID. I have heard complaints since last year of people quitting because of the health conditions on the job were not followed and they have certain illness and others just do not care!

People and children will continue to die.  Vaccinations were not compulsory when I was a child and I believe we are close to the same age.

 Covid is hardly the first "crisis" this country has faced and won't be the last. But I think it is the first time people stayed home because they were paid to.  We do have a vaccine that many simply don't trust and they feel they have valid reasons. The vaccine is hardly a magic potion. At this point in time I know more that were really sick with covid after having both shots than those that have not had their shots. My son was one of them. Had it not started to subside he would have been hospitalized . My youngest son had covid, no vaccination and very mild.

I am a little skeptical on some of the excuses for not working.  Get the vaccinations, wear a mask, two if they feel it necessary, get off your backside. If I had the ability to have anything to say about it, those that refused to work at the many jobs available, no food stamps, no food shelf. If people are not following health measures,  find another job of the many thousands available.

 

 

 

36 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

What have this world come to? Why are we not concern about our neighbor or our children's or their children's. Then you want to threaten people's life over masking?

People on both sides of the question of mask wearing have behaved badly. 

Your assumption that others don't care about their neighbors or their children is your opinion only.  There have been several calls for withholding  medical care from the unvaccinated. Should we assume all those on the left don't care about their neighbors or their children?

 

 

If we do not realize the time we are living in then I lights and air  am overwhelm. Louisriana hot and with no lights or air,

Many suffered thru same in years past  before electricity and air conditioning in LA and surrounding area. Not necessarily a sign of the end

I don't assume every weather disaster is a sign of the end. Much of the fire danger is man made. Of course those responsible claim climate change. When you refuse to remove the deadfall and then lack of rain you are simply asking for it. We lost our home in a tornado in 1965. 22 tornados were sighted in our area, called the NIGHT WITHOUT END. They just kept coming all night.

Without fail all my neighbors felt this was ushering in  the time of the end. Still here.

What gets my attention far more than weather is the steady bit by bit, drip, drip erosion of what we took for granted as our rights.

I have a healthy respect for covid, I am not hysterical over it. I don't believe for all the hand ringing of the administration they are all that concerned.  Members of congress and their staff  are exempt. Guess they can not catch it or spread it. That is just a small number that are exempt. The thousands by thousands crossing our border. Bet not one was vaccinated, practice social distancing or wear a mask.  Administration does not seem to consider them a risk.

 

[bonnie]

1 hour ago, GHansen said:

How about a microbiology course instead?

 There is a humor section if that is what you are aiming for. As you have failed in humor ignoring those you seem  to wish to mock works well .

[bonnie]

1 hour ago, stinsonmarri said:

 

What have this world come to? Why are we not concern about our neighbor or our children's or their children's.

 

Maybe issues like this keep people from being vaccinated. They don"t like a president hiding information

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/09/biden-told-osha-to-hide-info-on-vaccine-side-effects-lara-logan-video/

 

• Heart inflammation in young men higher than expected after ...

  https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cdc-heart...

  Jun 11, 2021 · NEW YORK, June 10 (Reuters) - A higher-than-expected number of young men have experienced heart inflammation after their second dose of the mRNA COVID-19 shots from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna,...

• CDC to hold meeting over heart inflammation in young men ...

  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9677975

  Jun 11, 2021 · The CDC will hold an urgent meeting on June 18 to address the number of young men who've had heart inflammation after receiving Pfizer and …

[GHansen]

1 hour ago, bonnie said:

As you have failed in humor ignoring those you seem  to wish to mock works well .

I found the "ignore" feature on various websites to enhance my online experience tremendously. 

One website I frequented had more people on ignore than not.

When I studied microbiology, our teacher told us we were the dumbest class he ever taught. He based that remark on our test scores; consequently, even though I had one of the best scores in the class, I knew it only meant that I was a bit less "dumb" than others in the class; nevertheless, being less dumb and a few years of experience working in the field of infectious disease, specifically, taught me that  pharmaceuticals do a lot more good than they do harm when it comes to treating infectious disease. In some cases, they appear miraculous.  

[bonnie]

13 minutes ago, GHansen said:

nevertheless, being less dumb and a few years of experience working in the field of infectious disease, specifically, taught me that  pharmaceuticals do a lot more good than they do harm when it comes to treating infectious disease. In some cases, they appear miraculous.  

I am sorry,I didnt know that was being disputed. I am certainly not opposed to vaccines or pharmaceuticals. Neither do I have blind faith in any treatment or the one doing the treating. Especially in the case of covid and the misinformation that is out there.

[GHansen]

3 minutes ago, bonnie said:

I am certainly not opposed to vaccines or pharmaceuticals. Neither do I have blind faith in any treatment or the one doing the treating.

Why then, are you presenting information regarding, for example, "heart inflammation"? in a higher than expected number of cases? The large majority of hospital admissions are, allegedly, among the unvaccinated. Some  of these cases, taxpayers are paying the tab for these people. Do you think it's a good thing when my choices lighten your pocketbook? Wouldn't you prefer to choose where your money is spent i.e., the right to choose?  

AZT was the first AIDS treatment ~1990. It was basically worthless. It took about 9 years [1981-1990] to develop a more or less worthless treatment It took another ~5 years for an effective treatment to be developed--protease inhibitors.

Covid vaccines were developed in about ~1 year. ~15 years for an effective AIDS treatment, about 1 year for a Covid treatment. 

 

[GHansen]

3 minutes ago, bonnie said:

I am certainly not opposed to vaccines or pharmaceuticals. Neither do I have blind faith in any treatment or the one doing the treating.

Why then, are you presenting information regarding, for example, "heart inflammation"? in a higher than expected number of cases? The large majority of hospital admissions are, allegedly, among the unvaccinated. Some  of these cases, taxpayers are paying the tab for these people. Do you think it's a good thing when my choices lighten your pocketbook? Wouldn't you prefer to choose where your money is spent i.e., the right to choose?  

AZT was the first AIDS treatment ~1990. It was basically worthless. It took about 9 years [1981-1990] to develop a more or less worthless treatment It took another ~5 years for an effective treatment to be developed--protease inhibitors.

Covid vaccines were developed in about ~1 year. ~15 years for an effective AIDS treatment, about 1 year for a Covid treatment. 

 

[bonnie]

Why then, are you presenting information regarding, for example, "heart inflammation"? in a higher than expected number of cases? The large majority of hospital admissions are, allegedly, among the unvaccinated. Some  of these cases, taxpayers are paying the tab for these people. Do you think it's a good thing when my choices lighten your pocketbook? Wouldn't you prefer to choose where your money is spent i.e., the right to choose?  

 

Because I think there are very valid reasons for refusing the vaccine. These are not all selfish, callous people as some like to self righteously label them. YES,there are many instances where I would like to restrict taxpayer funding. Someone's health and life is not one of them. Do I think we should turn someone away from emergency care that is unvaccinated. Nope. The right to choose seems to only apply without reservation to abortion. Then it is My Body, My Choice. Vaccination for covid, My Body, Your Choice. You brought up AIDS, personal preference is unless you can pay you don't receive care.

Your idea of no care if you cant pay would hit Black Americans the hardest as they as a group have the highest number of unvaccinated. Or at least the last I read this was true

If I had a teenage son I would think long and hard about a vaccination.

I have little faith in the CDC, the media or the administration. The latest dishonest fiasco is over Ivermectin. I do9n't believe the hospital ICU's are overrun with  Ivermectin overdose. Most neglect to mention that much of that drug used is for humans and not only is it  anti parasitic ,it is also anti viral and I believe anti bacterial. It is far more than "horse wormer" in human prescription. Does it have possibilities for covid, haven't a clue. Somehow I don't think you know either for a fact. But I do know that CDC, media and administration has slipped another notch in credibility the way they have presented the debate over Ivermectin.

[bonnie]

The information I gave was not for or against vaccination as such. Simply the other side of the vaccine utopia being presented.

Our children were vaccinated , Our family has either had covid or had the vaccine. 

What I am opposed to is the dishonesty surrounding covid . Osha being told to no long keep records or report problems with the vaccine. Why not? Do I have a right to know before I subject my family to something that could potentially harm them?

 

[bonnie]

A fairly long read but for those hysterical over the unvaccinated might prove educational

 

s COVID a Pandemic of the Unvaccinated? Not Quite.

By Brian C.Joondeph, MD

 

 

Physicians spreading medical misinformation, particularly about COVID, “are risking disciplinary action by state medical boards” due to their “high degree of public trust” and their “powerful platform in society.” One could say this applies more so to the president of the United States, the CDC director, and to major newspapers and media organizations, all of whom have a far larger platform than any single doctor.

For example, will Rolling Stone face disciplinary action over their recent false story about Oklahoma hospitals and ivermectin?

Those supposedly in the know about “the science” may attribute misinformation to evolving science, meaning we are learning about COVID as we go along. Yet this is not the world’s first rodeo with a respiratory virus. The science behind public health measures including masks, distancing, and lockdowns have been known for decades. It seems that the only changes these days are political considerations, and that is not science.

A popular catchphrase this past summer is that COVID is, “a pandemic among the unvaccinated.” President Biden told this to America on August 18. Joe was late to the party as CDC Director Rochelle Walensky warned of this a month earlier. Big media parroted this catchy slogan with little question. Is it true? Is it based on science or simply a push to scare and shame the unvaccinated into taking the vaccine?

By simply perusing the news, one can draw a far different conclusion, that we are instead seeing a “pandemic of the vaccinated.” In Israel, “One of the most vaccinated countries in the world has this week seen its highest number of coronavirus cases ever.” And these cases are not mild. Instead, a majority of hospitalized patients are in serious condition with close to 15 percent on ventilators. In a country with over 80 percent of adults vaccinated, this is clearly not a “pandemic of the unvaccinated.” Instead, it's the opposite, going from the model of how to manage the coronavirus to the global hot spot.

It is not just Israel. The Washington Post asks, “Iceland has been a vaccination success. Why is it seeing a coronavirus surge?” And this phenomenon has not eluded America.

Cornell University, my alma mater, also has a “pandemic of the vaccinated.” The College Fix reports, “Despite 95% vaccination rate, Cornell today has five times more COVID cases than it did this time last year.” Which leads to obvious questions about vaccine efficacy.

This catchphrase may have originated with another statistic making the rounds in America, also with little scrutiny by the media or medical establishment. This is the assertion that, “95% of people currently hospitalized for COVID-19 are unvaccinated.”

This statement, or variations, or making the rounds in the media. State governors echo this statistic. This number is pushing us backward to last year, with indoor mask mandates and calls by the Washington Post to punish the unvaccinated.

As an aside, are there calls to “punish” smokers, the obese, alcoholics, drug users, or others who place an undue burden on our healthcare system and their fellow citizens? How about illegal immigrants, bringing poor health and perhaps diseases into America for us to manage and pay for?

About that 95 percent number, the fact-checkers say yes, it is true. Does anyone fact-check the fact-checkers? Let’s take a closer look at this figure.

Either missed or ignored by the “fact-checkers” is that this 95 percent number is not based on what is happening now or in the past few months, but includes data going back to January and ending months ago, a biased data set. The Kaiser Family Foundation published a chart, listing each state, reporting vaccination and hospitalization data beginning anywhere from mid-December or mid-January through anywhere from May through July. These are not “current” real-time numbers.

First vaccinations began in mid- to late-December, and those were few. I, as one of the few, receiving my first dose before Christmas. The CDC definition of fully vaccinated includes those at least two weeks beyond their recommended one or two doses, depending on which vaccine.

By this definition, less than 1 percent of individuals would be “fully vaccinated” by the end of January when states began tracking breakthrough infections. But the clock was already ticking and the only people hospitalized had to be unvaccinated, beginning to skew the data.

Why is this important? No one was fully vaccinated when reporting began and every hospitalization in January would be classified as “unvaccinated.”

Then coincidently, or not, the CDC stopped counting breakthrough cases among the vaccinated in mid-May, a time when only a third of Americans were fully vaccinated.

As reported by Politico,

The agency said in May that it would stop routinely tracking so-called breakthrough infections that didn't lead to hospitalization or death. Several states then stopped tracking mild breakthrough cases, and at least two states told POLITICO they are having trouble reliably tracking infections in vaccinated people.

Mild cases can become severe. If not tracking them, such progression will be missed, and not recorded. A medical internship axiom is, “If you don’t check a temperature, you can’t find a fever.” The CDC version is if you don’t count hospitalizations of the vaccinated, you won’t find any cases.

The 95 percent metric is falsely high because when the data were collected, few were vaccinated and, by necessity, the majority of those hospitalized were unvaccinated. Then breakthrough cases were no longer counted, yet states continued to collect data for another month or two. If breakthrough cases were being ignored, then only unvaccinated cases were counted, falsely creating that 95 percent figure.

A Detroit newspaper headline screamed, “98% of Michigan COVID-19 cases are from unvaccinated” yet buried in the article is the measurement period, “between Jan 15 and July 21.” There is no discussion of the fact that during the measurement period, most Michiganders had not yet been vaccinated and most of those hospitalized during that time period were by default unvaccinated. Were they even recording breakthrough cases after mid-May when the CDC stopped counting?

This is not a criticism of the vaccines, which for the current Delta variant, prevent many, but not all, individuals, from becoming severely ill or worse, and are a sound recommendation for those at higher risk. Seatbelts and bicycle helmets don’t stop death and injury completely, but they mitigate it significantly, as do the vaccines, and for those at higher risk from COVID, there is a clear benefit.

The problem is when data are cherry-picked to present a pre-determined narrative. That is when science turns into propaganda. As the Seattle Times noted of the 95 percent figure, a “misguided and dangerous statement.” Going further saying, “But it’s not that simple and to oversimplify by calling it a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated’ will only make the problem worse.”

Vaccine hesitancy does not lie along political divisions. Interestingly blacks, Hispanics, and those with Ph.D.s are among the most vaccine-hesitant. When people see the vaccinated getting sick and dying around the world, there is hesitancy. When we were told that vaccination is the path to a return to normalcy, and instead we are going back to last year, there is hesitancy.

Shaming people with inaccurate data won’t win converts. The government and medical establishment should be honest with what they know and also what they do not know, rather than saying one thing and reversing it a month later.

Political considerations should not be part of the calculation as the virus doesn’t discriminate between Democrats and Republicans. Creating a two-tiered society will neither make America great again nor build anything back better.

We are all in this together and will sink or swim collectively based on the actions of those charged with making reasoned and evidence-based decisions. Dishonestly presenting data will only dig us all into a deeper hole.

Brian C. Joondeph is a physician and writer.

[stinsonmarri]

19 hours ago, bonnie said:

People and children will continue to die.  Vaccinations were not compulsory when I was a child and I believe we are close to the same age.

 Covid is hardly the first "crisis" this country has faced and won't be the last. But I think it is the first time people stayed home because they were paid to.  We do have a vaccine that many simply don't trust and they feel they have valid reasons. The vaccine is hardly a magic potion. At this point in time I know more that were really sick with covid after having both shots than those that have not had their shots. My son was one of them. Had it not started to subside he would have been hospitalized . My youngest son had covid, no vaccination and very mild.

I am a little skeptical on some of the excuses for not working.  Get the vaccinations, wear a mask, two if they feel it necessary, get off your backside. If I had the ability to have anything to say about it, those that refused to work at the many jobs available, no food stamps, no food shelf. If people are not following health measures,  find another job of the many thousands available.

 

 

 

 

I am sorry, but people do not have to die! People have a choice to do what's right for themselves and their neighbors. Even the Bible says why would you die! Many here on this earth who continue to break Commandments will die the final death in the Everlasting Lake of Fire. Because they choose to be selfish and only think of themself. I want all to live and think by their health as well as others. We here on earth have laws to maintain a peaceful world. Those who know the truth and should be champion for it, they have turned their backs on truth as well. YAHWEH has allowed the darkness to be completely reveal. This Gospel will be preached into all the world. Those who did the right thing for their neighbor as the Bible said will win salvation.

I standing for truth, peace and salvation for all who wants it! I do!

Blessing praying for all and please pray for me!

[stinsonmarri]

19 hours ago, bonnie said:

Maybe issues like this keep people from being vaccinated. They don"t like a president hiding information

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/09/biden-told-osha-to-hide-info-on-vaccine-side-effects-lara-logan-video/

 

• Heart inflammation in young men higher than expected after ...

  https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cdc-heart...

  Jun 11, 2021 · NEW YORK, June 10 (Reuters) - A higher-than-expected number of young men have experienced heart inflammation after their second dose of the mRNA COVID-19 shots from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna,...

• CDC to hold meeting over heart inflammation in young men ...

  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9677975

  Jun 11, 2021 · The CDC will hold an urgent meeting on June 18 to address the number of young men who've had heart inflammation after receiving Pfizer and …

As I have said over and over to you Bonnie, my concern is on spreading the Gospel. Spreading it with love, letting all who want salvation is to be obedient to the law of the land. As long it does not interference with YAHWEH'S Law and the Testimony of YAHSHUA. Many have thought that the Sabbath would be the problem for these last days. It isn't! The Bible said those who will not keep the Commandments, one is to love thy neighbor as yourself. If you cannot keep or have a problem with man's law that want all to be well; you will have a problem with HIS!

Blessings and I pray for all and please pray for me!

[stinsonmarri]

On 9/12/2021 at 4:41 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

I have the same question that Bonnie has as to SDA employees forced to get vaccinated.

I am attempting to get an answer.  I do not know if I will receive an answer.

 

 

I never felt that being SDA when I went to Church School, when I was young. I had to have all my upday vaccine before they would let me go to class. The same thing when my son went to Church School. We always were taught believing in Religious liberty! As long as the land do not interfere with YAHWEH'S Commandments we should keep them. We have alway been a champion for Public Health and we stood up for it. This is one of YAHWEH'S Command to love your neighbor as you do yourself. YAHWEH of IsraEL taught public health to them. That's why HE told Moses not to eat unclean meats and what was unclean. Over and over the public and private health messages were taught to IsraEL!

What's happening now is out or the ordinary and people do not want to obey but to do what they want. Just like in Heaven, the same is happening now! To me, it is Satan moving people to show as the Bible said the lack of love for each other. I urge all to pray call on YAHSHUA and stand for justice and truth. It is not about politics', it about public health and loving your neighbor!

Blessings pray for me as I pray for all on this forum!

[bonnie]

51 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

I am sorry, but people do not have to die! People hwho will leave a choice to do what's right for themselves and their neighbors. Even the Bible says why would you die!

Between you and GHansen you seem to lack the ability to stay on course.

You are not qualified to determine who will live, who will die and why.

You determine the right thing is to get vaccinated? Tell me what your qualifications are that give you that knowledge? Personally I think benefits out weigh the risk but I certainly will leave the judgement of the unvaccinated to you. 

 

 

Many here on this earth who continue to break Commandments will die the final death in the Everlasting Lake of Fire. Because they choose to be selfish and only think of themself.

Researching and coming to a different opinion on covid vaccination than ST stinsonmarri  does not subject anyone to the Everlasting lake of fire. I am fairly certain claiming the right to determine/judge for those that refuse the vaccine might. People a lot more intelligent than you medically are refusing to be vaccinated.  Obviously you believe many of those simply do it to be selfish and will burn in the everlasting lake of fire.  I rather think they are trying to make the best decision for themselves and family with the twisted covid messaging. My first question would be why is congress and staff exempt. Obviously Biden believes they cannot catch it or spread it. What about the thousands unchecked at the border since Jan. Have you seen masks, social distancing, heard of the thousands being vaccinated before being disseminated throughout the US

 

 

 

 

I want all to live and think by their health as well as others. We here on earth have laws to maintain a peaceful world. Those who know the truth and should be champion for it, they have turned their backs on truth as well. YAHWEH has allowed the darkness to be completely reveal. This Gospel will be preached into all the world. Those who did the right thing for their neighbor as the Bible said will win salvation.

Those that did the right thing for their neighbor and were vaccinated will have eternal life. I am sure they will be happy to hear that. Those that didn't get the everlasting fire?  

51 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

I standing for truth, peace and salvation for all who wants it! I do!

Blessing praying for all and please pray for me!

You are way out of your league to make this judgement call that none of us can make