Will Religious Org. Be Required To Force Employees To Receive Vaccine

[Gustave]

19 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Do you know that for a fact. Do you have proof. Some people have allergic reaction to drugs, pill, or medicine. I took Emprine 3 did not know it was Codeine. I almost died! I am allergic to a lot of antibiotics. Finally, what vaccine did they take?  I personally do not recommend Johnson and Johnson to anyone! Did these people other known problems and did not talk to their doctor because they should have. My point we just make this kind of statement without proof. Not to offend!

Blessings, pray for me as I pray for all!

It's what the persons Doctor relayed to the families. No other known problems  My medical knowledge stops at my EMT certification. 

 

[stinsonmarri]

27 minutes ago, Gustave said:

It's what the persons Doctor relayed to the families. No other known problems  My medical knowledge stops at my EMT certification. 

 

Not to be disrespectful they could have possibly misunderstood. My niece in law is allergic to the shot. She took the  ‎Moderna and it make her face swell up, she threw up. But I haven't seen a report of any deaths due to the shot. But, I will keep an open mind and pray for them! 

Blessings and pray for me as I pray for all!

[stinsonmarri]

1 hour ago, bonnie said:

Long before I became acquainted with you.Just dont be so quick to judge those that disagree with you. Give those that do some credit for having what they believe are valid reasons. Calling them selfish, only caring about themselves, turning their backs on the commandments and threatening with the everlasting lake of fire over a vaccine is not spreading the gospel. Just because you claim the righteous high ground doesnt mean you are standing on it.

You, don't seem to show the love the way you continue the same thing over and over! Please, take a break we heard what you have to said plenty of times. You need to take it to YAHSHUA,  HE hears and understand. There are some of us that love you, but don't agree with you. No matter what you call them, feel about them, it doesn't matter to them. When you take your burden to YAHSHUA, just leave them there! We all hear your complaints and we know how you feel! If you feel Biden is so wrong you have constantly complain about him. So, take it to YAHSHUA, listen to THE HOLY SPIRIT and leave your sorrows there! I know that prayer changes thing and if it please THE FATHER, HE  will fix it! I pray for the California race and HE fixed it! I pray a lot for those who are our leaders to allow the truth to come out and it does. HE and only HE can fix it and that what gives me hope and my prayers for you! To fix all of your burdens!

Blessings, pray for me as I pray for you!

[bonnie]

10 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

You, don't seem to show the love the way you continue the same thing over and over! Please, take a break we heard what you have to said plenty of times.

 

This was about vaccine mandates. It was not about what you wanted to make it. If you didn't like the subject matter. Tough, go on and begin something that interests you.

You need to take it to YAHSHUA,  HE hears and understand.

Your direction on this is not needed or wanted. You need to be more concerned about what God says about judging those that disagree with you and giving just a little respect for their opinions.

 

There are some of us that love you, but don't agree with you. No matter what you call them, feel about them, it doesn't matter to them.

I can assure this is not a concern of mine, does not keep me awake at nights. Not when statements like that are made by those waving the everlasting lake of fire around and stating they are turning they backs on the commandments.  Comes across as very false and very self righteous

When you take your burden to YAHSHUA, just leave them there! We all hear your complaints and we know how you feel!

This is almost funny. I asked a question, sorry it was not what you wanted

If you feel Biden is so wrong you have constantly complain about him. So, take it to YAHSHUA, listen to THE HOLY SPIRIT and leave your sorrows there! I know that prayer changes thing and if it please THE FATHER, HE  will fix it!

God does not always fix sheer and deliberate idiocy. 

I pray for the California race and HE fixed it!t does. HE and only HE can fix it and that what gives me hope I pray a lot for those who are our leaders to allow the truth to come out and i and my prayers for you! To fix all of your burdens!

The one thing you are correct in is the truth is coming out about our leader and it gets uglier by the day. 

 

10 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

JUst how arrogant can some people be. Stinsonmarri prayed for the outcome she wanted and look there, it was granted per her request.  

To fix all of your burdens!

Always best to begin prayer to fix oneself.  Sometimes that keeps one so busy they lack the time to condemn those that choose not to have the vaccine,

 

[bonnie]

If you don't like a topic or question ignore it.  

Not everything needs your judgmental warnings over something that is not crucial to salvation. Stop with the paragraph after paragraph of history lessons and debating the spelling of a word or a date ad-nauseam on a totally unrelated subject. 

I still am wondering how our denomination will handle this, especially as it stands now.  If assuming it will be declared unconstitutional the org does not enforce compliance will the fines be retroactive? If compliance is forced because of mandate and then thrown out will those that lost their jobs be reinstated? Or will they just decide this is a good idea and declare their own mandate, problem solved?

[stinsonmarri]

2 hours ago, bonnie said:

If you don't like a topic or question ignore it.  

Not everything needs your judgmental warnings over something that is not crucial to salvation. Stop with the paragraph after paragraph of history lessons and debating the spelling of a word or a date ad-nauseam on a totally unrelated subject. 

I still am wondering how our denomination will handle this, especially as it stands now.  If assuming it will be declared unconstitutional the org does not enforce compliance will the fines be retroactive? If compliance is forced because of mandate and then thrown out will those that lost their jobs be reinstated? Or will they just decide this is a good idea and declare their own mandate, problem solved?

I never said I did like the topic! I said that you continue to say the same thing over and over. The topic is clear and I address the topic. However, if you want to know how they will handle it call them and found out, that's my suggestion! If you don't agree, pray about it! You always accuse me of the things you do being judgmental. You want to tell what I should do. I suggest that you should pray and leave in THE FATHER'S HANDS. I don't judge you, because you are human just like me. I try to reason with you and to ask you kindly to pray. You, instead want to express negative things and call me names. But, that do not bother me because I know who I am. What I suggest to you is to pray, it changing things. But you can find out what our church denomination is going to do by contacting them. I have and they do answer what I ask them about. So, try and see! Just a suggestion that's all and then you will know. Maybe, then you come back and share it with us! If not what you want to hear, then again I suggest you can take it to THE FATHER and leave it there. HE WILL work it out!

I will respond to you, if I feel I need to. However, it will always be with kindness.

Blessings, pray for me as I pray for all!

[stinsonmarri]

3 hours ago, bonnie said:

 

 

Guess what HE DID! It's not arrogant, it's just believing in things that are good and true. I believe HE IS in control of all of this! HE SAID to come to HIM and ask HIM and HE WILL answer. So, my arrogance as you claim is what HE SAID to do! HE also said to pray for you and I do! I hope you pray for me as well!

Blessings to you with prayer!

[stinsonmarri]

Bonnie, I respect your opinion. I just don't agree with it. Remember we have opinions and the YAHWEH have facts and answer according to HIS WORD! That's HIS Commandments, all I said that Public Health is part of HIS Plan. That's not mine or your's opinion that's a fact!

Blessing and prayers for you!

[bonnie]

3 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

Bonnie, I respect your opinion. I just don't agree with it. Remember we have opinions and the YAHWEH have facts and answer according to HIS WORD! That's HIS Commandments, all I said that Public Health is part of HIS Plan. That's not mine or your's opinion that's a fact!

Blessing and prayers for you!

Well I am sorry,I do not respect your opinion concerning the unvaccinated among my family or anyone else unvaccinated. It is not your call to determine that is the same as turning your back on the commandments or the other judgemental statements you have made

No you said far more than Public Health is part of His Plan.Nor do you have the inside scoop on this vaccine being part of His plan Hopefully it is as safe long term  as claimed, but I believe little from the CDC, Dr. Fauci, or Biden administration. And even less from their devoted followers

I simply asked a question, you dont have the answer so can you please leave it alone

You have no idea of "fact" or not. It is your opinion.

Please leave it alone unless you do. I am far from the only one that has had this issue with you

 

 However, if you want to know how they will handle it call them and found out, that's my suggestion! If you don't agree, pray about it!

I am assuming with  continued postings on the sins of those that don't vaccinate you have asked. Please share I was not very successful in obtaining an answer.  I don't care about someone else's sins in this or the everlasting lake of fire.  Provide an answer if you can or leave it alone

 

[RonCorson]

I don't think anyone can answer the OP question and it should not even be answered until after OSHA writes their rules. That Biden does not have the authority to dictate to OSHA is a question that the courts will have to answer like they answered his attempt to have the CDC extend rent amnesty. Ultimately there will be plenty of lawsuits the denomination can join to protect themselves from any fines that OSHA may assign. Frankly the administration is hoping the threat get a higher vaccination rate before their actions are determined by the court to be without constitutional authority.

[bonnie]

 

I understood that they as employer could make vaccinations mandatory or the org.

The rent amnesty is a joke, unless a fast redo just took place most of that money has not found it's way to the intended recipients. The landlords just are expected to take it in the neck, many themselves are in danger of losing their rental properties.

[bonnie]

Temporarily. There are so many medical personal that object to this vaccine

Judge blocks medical worker vaccine mandate in New York state (mynbc5.com)

UTICA, N.Y. —

A federal judge has temporarily blocked the state of New York from forcing medical workers to be vaccinated after a group of health care workers sued, saying their Constitutional rights were violated.

Judge David Hurd in Utica issued the order Tuesday after 17 health professionals, including doctors and nurses, claimed the vaccine mandate violated their rights because it disallows religious exemptions.

The judge gave New York state until Sept. 22 to respond to the lawsuit in federal court in Utica.

The state issued the order Aug. 28, requiring at least a first shot for health care workers at hospitals and nursing homes by Sept. 27.

In their lawsuit, health care professionals disguised their identities with pseudonyms such as “Dr. A.,” “Nurse A.,” and “Physician Liaison X.”

They cited violations of the U.S. Constitution, along with the New York State Human Rights Law and New York City Human Rights Law, because the state Department of Health regulation requiring workers to get the vaccine provided no exemption for “sincere religious beliefs that compel the refusal of such vaccination.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stinsonmarri]

2 hours ago, RonCorson said:

I don't think anyone can answer the OP question and it should not even be answered until after OSHA writes their rules. That Biden does not have the authority to dictate to OSHA is a question that the courts will have to answer like they answered his attempt to have the CDC extend rent amnesty. Ultimately there will be plenty of lawsuits the denomination can join to protect themselves from any fines that OSHA may assign. Frankly the administration is hoping the threat get a higher vaccination rate before their actions are determined by the court to be without constitutional authority.

OSHA can mandate and people can sue. However, they will find that the law is on OSHA side because of one simple fact-Public Health. OSHA have business requirements about Public Health in having enough bathroom sbase on the employment size. Sanitized drinking places. Non smoking now! I remember people who smoke was super angry and sued, they lost because of here we go again Public Health-hello! Employers wants this as well so their people can be healthy and come to work! People who want to be healthy and come to work don't want those who are not vaccine. Certain religious company is upset, then just hire all the unvaccinated and let them run their company. I can't say how long this will last without some serious problems but OSHA and their insurance will not stand for it!

DL, seat belts, in Georgia they have special driving lanes, dogs must have a lease on outdoors, houses have to have all types of permits, can't park where you want, you have to have car and house and now rental insurance, you have clock in on the job time not yours, you can't walk around outdoors naked, you can't do anything on anybodies property. Can't trespass, you have to have license to eat and drink strong drinks, you have to stop at at a red light, contractors, doctors, nurses, welders, Carpenters  and more are mandated to have licenses, if you have to a degree from an accredited college. I can go on and for each state have their laws that are mandated. I work for the unemployment and in order to get their benefits they are mandated to show proof they are unemployed. Children all kind of vaccines they have to take for school this has been mandated for years! Lastly, the majority rules, simple that's demos that Greek gave that we called democracy! 

With prayers of love and !

[bonnie]

We are a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Constitutional republic used to mean power in hands if citizens. Democracy is laws made by majority. Personally I don't think it matters anymore. 

[RonCorson]

8 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

OSHA can mandate and people can sue. However, they will find that the law is on OSHA side because of one simple fact-Public Health.

Actually not likely the administration will win as it is far outside of OSHA purpose to say who can and who cannot work. As their purpose statement says: "

OSHA's Mission

With the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970, Congress created the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) to ensure safe and healthful working conditions for workers by setting and enforcing standards and by providing training, outreach, education and assistance.
 

Congress could create a law but this just saying lower bureaucracies can do such things is not going to be found legal nonsmoking was local and state ordinances not OSHA, seatbelt laws are also by state, though they were prompted by the federal government saying they would withhold federal funds from the states. In 1968 the federal government did mandate that cars be fitted with seatbelts. 

[bonnie]

At this point with the current administration I dont think it is as easy as saying it isnt likely they would win. The admin does what they want and then say "what are you going to do about it" While true at times this dictator like behavior is stopped it doesnt stop the chip,chip,chipping away of the constitution. It is gradual enough that many people are delighted with "Let's make a law". Many SDA's as well. I woildnt count on the law being thr deciding factor

 

[stinsonmarri]

13 hours ago, RonCorson said:

Actually not likely the administration will win as it is far outside of OSHA purpose to say who can and who cannot work. As their purpose statement says: "

OSHA's Mission

With the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970, Congress created the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) to ensure safe and healthful working conditions for workers by setting and enforcing standards and by providing training, outreach, education and assistance.
 

Congress could create a law but this just saying lower bureaucracies can do such things is not going to be found legal nonsmoking was local and state ordinances not OSHA, seatbelt laws are also by state, though they were prompted by the federal government saying they would withhold federal funds from the states. In 1968 the federal government did mandate that cars be fitted with seatbelts. 

Have you read this in OSHA:

(b)

The Secretary may by rule promulgate, modify, or revoke any occupational safety or health standard in the following manner:

(1)

Whenever the Secretary, upon the basis of information submitted to him in writing by an interested person, a representative of any organization of employers or employees, a nationally recognized standards-producing organization, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, or a State or political subdivision, or on the basis of information developed by the Secretary or otherwise available to him, determines that a rule should be promulgated in order to serve the objectives of this Act, the Secretary may request the recommendations of an advisory committee appointed under section 7 of this Act.

(1)

The Secretary shall provide, without regard to the requirements of chapter 5, title 5, Unites States Code, for an emergency temporary standard to take immediate effect upon publication in the Federal Register if he determines --

(A)

that employees are exposed to grave danger from exposure to substances or agents determined to be toxic or physically harmful or from new hazards, and

(B)

that such emergency standard is necessary to protect employees from such danger.

Blessing and prayers!

[RonCorson]

17 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

determines that a rule should be promulgated in order to serve the objectives of this Act,

That means it has to been in accordance with the act of congress that established OSHA. Even then it goes to the advisory committee

 

19 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

that employees are exposed to grave danger from exposure to substances or agents determined to be toxic or physically harmful or from new hazards, and

We are in big trouble if people are considered substances or agents determined to be toxic!

[bonnie]

"Actually not likely the administration will win as it is far outside of OSHA purpose to say who can and who cannot work. As their purpose statement says: "

Ron, under normal circumstances I would agree with you but there isnt anything normal about our current circumstances.

You have an admin walking all over the constitution and the unsettling part is with not only approval by silence, but enthusiastic support ,even  by SDA's.

Perhaps the thing to do is simply agree and stop objecting or fighting what is going on. If we Concede, we wont be in the group that some think that refusal to get the vaccine is by selfish, callous, uncaring  commandment breaking  candidates for the everlasting fire. They are deliberately responsible it seems for people dying. I certainly don't want to be in that group .

Unfortunately it seems to be specific groups that make up the largest number refusing. Perhaps someone can get this particular gospel to them

 

 

 

[stinsonmarri]

46 minutes ago, RonCorson said:

That means it has to been in accordance with the act of congress that established OSHA. Even then it goes to the advisory committee

 

We are in big trouble if people are considered substances or agents determined to be toxic!

Covid is toxic, its a disease that is airborne and spreads from body to body. Toxic and substance can to apply to more than just chemicals.

[RonCorson]

1 hour ago, stinsonmarri said:

Covid is toxic, its a disease that is airborne and spreads from body to body. Toxic and substance can to apply to more than just chemicals.

That is fine, OSHA can ban the virus. People on the other hand the vast majority of the time don't contain the virus. Plus there are actually definitions for toxic and hazardous chemicals. If your argument is that OSHA should redefine their terms, that is a separate thing That is something that no court will allow.

 

2 hours ago, bonnie said:

Ron, under normal circumstances I would agree with you but there isnt anything normal about our current circumstances.

You have an admin walking all over the constitution and the unsettling part is with not only approval by silence, but enthusiastic support ,even  by SDA's.

Perhaps the thing to do is simply agree and stop objecting or fighting what is going on. If we Concede, we wont be in the group that some think that refusal to get the vaccine is by selfish, callous, uncaring  commandment breaking  candidates for the everlasting fire. They are deliberately responsible it seems for people dying. I certainly don't want to be in that group .

Unfortunately it seems to be specific groups that make up the largest number refusing. Perhaps someone can get this particular gospel to them

No it is certainly not normal. That is why it has to be treated as abnormal and illegal. It is foolish to pretend it is normal and just because a Progressive President thinks he has good intentions to allow the government to become completely lawless. Those that think this is because people are just selfish or uncaring think that because they don't think very hard about any subject. The corporate media says something and they think that is all there is and no reason for not accepting what they say. That is sad but if it remains it will surely destroy the nation. By the way I am vaccinated. the vaccine is the least of the reasons to go against the government over-reach in all of this. As it turns out from some recent studies the vaccine does not prevent the spread of covid (neither do masks). It still seems to reduce the death and hospitalization rate. So really if the vaccine effective rate turns out to be what it is in Israel and the UK, Pfizer coming it at about 46% effective, meaning vaccinated people can spread the virus it is kind of silly to be mandating vaccination! I know Biden said he would stop the virus...but he was lying.

[bonnie]

We also are vaccinated but not because I felt we would lose our salvation if we didnt. There is something really disturbing about SDA's believing the unvaccinated are selfish,cold people not caring about others.  Losing their salvation by turning their backs on the commandments. My dad always cautioned me never to fear those outside the denomination but to keep a wary eye on the pious sitting next to me in the pew.

[stinsonmarri]

32 minutes ago, RonCorson said:

That is fine, OSHA can ban the virus. People on the other hand the vast majority of the time don't contain the virus. Plus there are actually definitions for toxic and hazardous chemicals. If your argument is that OSHA should redefine their terms, that is a separate thing That is something that no court will allow.

 

No it is certainly not normal. That is why it has to be treated as abnormal and illegal. It is foolish to pretend it is normal and just because a Progressive President thinks he has good intentions to allow the government to become completely lawless. Those that think this is because people are just selfish or uncaring think that because they don't think very hard about any subject. The corporate media says something and they think that is all there is and no reason for not accepting what they say. That is sad but if it remains it will surely destroy the nation. By the way I am vaccinated. the vaccine is the least of the reasons to go against the government over-reach in all of this. As it turns out from some recent studies the vaccine does not prevent the spread of covid (neither do masks). It still seems to reduce the death and hospitalization rate. So really if the vaccine effective rate turns out to be what it is in Israel and the UK, Pfizer coming it at about 46% effective, meaning vaccinated people can spread the virus it is kind of silly to be mandating vaccination! I know Biden said he would stop the virus...but he was lying.

I going to say this with kindness. I believe in the Bible. In Daniel the king was told that YAHWEH sits up kings and take them down. I never heard that Biden said he could stop it. Matter of fact he said it might be with us always so we have to change some of things we used to do. It is not silly to mandate for the good of the public. Before you could go to school all of your shot you took were mandated for years. This mandating now is all the trick of the devil. The Commandments of YAHWEH are mandated all laws that we have are mandated. All of sudden we hear people complain about being mandated:

OTHER WORDS FOR mandate
3 fiat, decree, injunction, edict, ruling. Mandate Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

If you live in a society you are going to have rules that are required! If we be save and live on the Earth made New, you are going to follow YAHWEH'S mandated Commandments. Public Health was put in place to protect all the people's health and these are laws.

Blessing and prayers!

 

[bonnie]

Biden Oct 22, 2020 said I will end the pandemic

[bonnie]

How responsible and selfish is the president and VP. Both daid if covid vaccine was announced by Trump thry would refuse. How many did they influence to their death