We don't talk about how multicultural Churches

[Stan]

Tend to, for whatever reason, cause 'White Flight" over the years..

If the Gospel does not go to the Whites, as well as everyone else, we are not getting out of this place alive.

[Dr. Shane]

I have noticed in my travels to Latin America that they have English-speaking churches and/or English-speaking Sabbath School in areas were there are a lot of Americans. It is simular to the Spanish-speaking churches we have here in areas where there are a lot of hispanics.

I believe church membership among minorities within the US is growing faster than among whites. I believe this is for two reasons. 1. Minorities tend to be of lower income and the poor are more receptive to the gospel. 2. The minority culture shares its faith much more freely than the algo culture does.

[Guest]

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Stan Jensen said:

Tend to, for whatever reason, cause 'White Flight" over the years..

If the Gospel does not go to the Whites, as well as everyone else, we are not getting out of this place alive.

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then tell the whites to stop leaving as the church becomes more diverse....

[Stan]

They should not leave, but they do..

and here is one I am going to get burned on..

Just like in the North East, where the Americans Blacks left as the West Indians took over..

Neither are right, but it happens. AND it needs to be fixed.

[Guest]

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Stan Jensen said:

They should not leave, but they do..

and here is one I am going to get burned on..

Just like in the North East, where the Americans Blacks left as the West Indians took over..

Neither are right, but it happens. AND it needs to be fixed.

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why would you get burned? West Indian blacks are more conservative and tend to have more in common with american whites than do american blacks..... and it usually boils down to one thing, worship style...

[gina i]

Thankfully I've never heard of this happening before in the adventist church. It's news to me.

I, personally, would never go to an all white church. I feel that diversity/mult-race churches are the best ones to attend. Everyone does things differently, but that doesn't mean you can't worship together.

[Kountzer]

caribbean american blacks can be found in great numbers in both white oriented churches and in black worship style churches as well.

[cricket]

If it all boils down to worship style, then who cares if whites leave, or blacks leave? If Jesus wanted us all to worship in the same manner, wouldn't He have created us all the same? If diversity is a good thing, then why isn't diversity in worship a good thing?

Why do people believe that "they should not leave"? Why does group A believe that group B should embrace group A's worship style; and when they refuse, why does group B believe that group A should embrace group B's worship style??

[Kountzer]

I agree. I've worshipped in both.

[Stan]

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West Indian blacks are more conservative and tend to have more in common with american whites than do american blacks..... and it usually boils down to one thing, worship style...

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My experience is that those direct from Africa tend to fit better into 'white' Churches in North America.

My immediate family is multicultural. The first Adventist Church I joined was west-Indian.

In Toronto Canada 30 years ago, there were about 25 Churches, mostly of European background, today in that city of millions I doubt if you would find 25 white people going to Church, the Churches are now West Indian. A similar story is told in London England.

The history of Toronto is interesting, 30+ years ago those from Jamaica and other island did not go to Church, it just did not 'feel like Church' to them, Pastor Rudy James became the first black pastor in Canada. He pioneered the black work in Canada. I worked with Rudy in various places, the last place was Calgary before his death.

Now the reverse is true, the Churches are all West India (and other groups) and it does not 'feel like Church' to the white folks.

Perhaps both groups were wrong, but if the message does not go to all the groups, we are not getting out of this place alive.

It is the same in the North East Conference, multi- culturism is just not working.

This is not about skin color, it is about culture, and it is about the Gospel Message.

The same problem exist in several areas.

North American natives ( First Nations in Canada, Indians or native Americans in the US) have a different culture than those that are not, and the growth is best when they have their own groups. I spent quite a bit of time with a Pastor of a Native Church a couple of weeks ago.

I do think that all groups need to get together often, camp meetings, weekend rallys etc etc

My opinion is that having different ABC's is wrong, A city does not need a 'Black ABC', and a 'White ABC' or a 'Korean ABC' nor a Filipino ABC' An Adventist Book Center should be able to serve EVERYONE. There are several things like that that should be 'joint'

Sure, we should be able to have everyone worshiping together, but the reality is, if it is not working we have to take our head out of the sand, and out of pretend land, and move forward on the mission that God has called us to do.

[darlene]

Then why is it that in North America the fastest growing and most popular churches today are the All Nations Churches?

[Amelia]

*tacking on

Could it be that for some, they are immersed in white culture for most of the week and just like to spend their rest in their own culture?

As for the ABC's; we have one main and one small satelite store for delivery of campmeeting order. I haven't heard of separate ABC's for diverse cultures. Aren't all the books, music and foods pretty much the same?

[Stan]

IN the US outside of the Pacific Union and NPU, there are ABC's for the regional Conferences.... Same books, same food, maybe there is a need, but I do not understand it...

[Gail]

They don't need that- they can buy the Steps to Christ with the Afro-American or Hispanic Jesus on the front at our store!!

What we really need in our area is a Steps to Christ with an Asian cover...

[Stan]

I think it probably stemmed from....

"Yeah, they will take our money and sell us stuff, but they won't hire us"

[fifiqueen]

I believe that worship styles are an issue. But more so I believe that many (black, white or stupid!!) haven't truly given themselves up to God, they still hold in their hearts resentment of other races. It's not outright racism, it more like prejudice, an underlying distain for the others culture, to be honest based on nothing more than ignorance.

We have to take a deep look inside and be honest, we have not truly submitted ourselves to Christ. In him there is no colour or culture, his love transcends this and he expects us to transcend culture when we are in him. I yearn for a truly multicultural worship experience, not mainly white, black or otherwise, just mainly focused on Jesus.

You may call me an idealist, if so question your motives, if we were really committed to being who God wants us to be the why would be find those of other cultures so intrusive to the point that we would leave our church. Racial prejudice is fed to us everyday through the media it is only through a deep, meaningful relationship with Christ that we can transcend this prejudice and love regardless.

[Stan]

Cultural differences are not reflected in the amount/type of pigments we in our skin.

My kids would feel more comforable with a next door neighbour who's parents came from Jamaica then they would a kid who just flew in from Copenhagen, which is where my Father came from.

The more in common, the more comfortable we are with people.

[Gail]

Yes, it's sad to see this happen in the church, but I don't think it is an exception

I have a bank account that I've retained for many years. This particular branch was the first one in town which featured tellers that speak Punjabi. Of course it became popular with the Indian population

The other day my son and I went there because it is also the only branch that is open on Fridays until 8:00. Things have changed somewhat. The notable difference is the lack of white faces.

All of the tellers except one now are of Indian descent and the clientele in the huge lineup were about the same ratio.

I think that is just how it goes when you get an area of major immigration from one country. I have no idea how to change that. I don't think it should happen in the church, but I imagine that it does.

[Gerr]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Stan Jensen said:

Tend to, for whatever reason, cause 'White Flight" over the years..

If the Gospel does not go to the Whites, as well as everyone else, we are not getting out of this place alive.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"]Do whites feel threatened once the minorities reach a critical number? [/]

Gerry

[Amelia]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Racial prejudice is fed to us everyday through the media it is only through a deep, meaningful relationship with Christ that we can transcend this prejudice and love regardless.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/amen2.gif" alt="" /> Fifi

[Guest]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Gerry Cabalo said:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Stan Jensen said:

Tend to, for whatever reason, cause 'White Flight" over the years..

If the Gospel does not go to the Whites, as well as everyone else, we are not getting out of this place alive.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"]Do whites feel threatened once the minorities reach a critical number? [/] i think so....

Gerry

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[Dr. Shane]

My mother warned my about those Copenhagen folks. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Aren't they all tobbacco farmers?

[nuff sed]

I will, probably, get my head handed to me for my remarks but here goes.... It is my understanding that "right or wrong", Adventism is known in U.K. as primarily "black oriented". The leadership and membership reflects this. When the New Gallery Center in London was purchased to primarily evangelize that area it attracted so many of the 'black' population that the "white" Londoner would look in, see a "sea of black faces" and turn around and walk out. People enter "the church" with their own prejudices. It is a cultural thing .... I think that the Holy Spirit may have to put in some "overtime" on Caucasians .

Regards, Gladdussee

[LynnDel]

Quote:

I believe church membership among minorities within the US is growing faster than among whites. I believe this is for two reasons. 1. Minorities tend to be of lower income and the poor are more receptive to the gospel. 2. The minority culture shares its faith much more freely than the algo culture does.

3. My Latino friends explained this to me: When door-to-door evangelism is done, whites automatically have their guard up and tend to resent any intrusion, while Latinos welcome other latinos. They say it's because they feel somewhat the underdog in our society, causing them to feel kinship with those who are like them.

That's not my theory - it's theirs!

LD

[fifiqueen]

I will, probably, get my head handed to me for my remarks but here goes.... It is my understanding that "right or wrong", Adventism is known in U.K. as primarily "black oriented". The leadership and membership reflects this.