We don't talk about how multicultural Churches

[Naomi]

That is understandable and pretty much what I've heard from other nationalities.

In my entire life I have never attended an all anythingchurch. The issues arise when any one race becomes the vocal majority and insist upon having all services their way. As most of us, whether we admit it or not, may be open to variety we have our feelings about the order of the service; the type of music, etc.

IMHO, it's not the nationality of the person that makes the difference but the cultural differences and the order of the service. That is a difficult mentality in which to find a suitable compromise.

Every member needs to leave feeling spiritually fed. I have no answers, only observations.

Naomi

[fifiqueen]

Quote:

Every member needs to leave feeling spiritually fed. I have no answers, only observations.

Naomi this is spot on. There are more issues than race it is true, culture is a real issue, it even relates to old versus young. As a worship leader I always incorporate hymns,worship songs, and choruses whenever I lead out in worship, as the congregation is of mixed age groups and musical preferences. It's so annoying to see young people only ever sing choruses on youth days and on other days only hymns allowed. Sometimes it seems that we are naturally intolerant of each other and unwilling to accomodate the needs of more than ourselves. Whilst you can't please all the people all the time you can please some of the people some of the time. By varying your pleasing some of the people some of the time you can end up pleasing everyone!!

I hope that that makes sense, it did to me when I wrote it but I am not sure if it will to anyone else when they read it!!LOL

[Naomi]

Yes, it makes perfect sense. When a worship leader, such as yourself, recognizes the need to satisfy as many as possible, the race thing becomes a non-issue.

And, you are right-on about the young and old. It is vitally important to keep the youth. But the older people desperately need to feel God's love and the companionship which their church home affords them.

Is this

[fifiqueen]

Not off topic Naomi, not at all!!

There are many issues that affect the cultural and racial mix of our churches. Age is yet another one of them. So how do you manage to keep all of God's people together when there are so many issues to consider? It's not an easy one at all.

[Naomi]

No Fifi it's not an easy task. Jesus knew it would be very difficult, that's why he gave us the Holy Spirit to guide and protect us.

We are only the planters of the seed, the rest will come in due course.

Just have faith, work, pray and listen.

Courage,

Naomi

[Key Guy]

I have put a good bit of thought into why people drive past one church to worship at another miles away. I agree that worship style is a very big issue and I'm not so sure that is a bad thing. If you find a style to be an affront to your relationship with God, even if the church is next door to you, you would be better off and be more blessed attending and being involved with a church that suits your worship style.

One key word is 'involved'. Too many folks just attend and keep a seat warm on Sabbath morning during the services that bless them, conveniently avoiding weekly involvement that brings them closer to each other and the community. I have seen people drive for 18 miles past at least one church to worship at another. You know very well that they are not going to do that trip 2-3 times a week for other events.

Is it possible to worship in one church and be involved in another. I doubt it because the evangelistic outreach of both churches would be weakened.

This is a tough dilemma.

[fifiqueen]

To be honest I am not sure that this is a problem that will be fixed in the churches before Jesus comes.

[Jeannieb43]

To be honest I am not sure that this is a problem that will be fixed in the churches before Jesus comes.

That's why we each need to have our own personal relationship with Christ, to see us through the times when there won't be any comfortable church family to rely on.

[Naomi]

Quote:

That's why we each need to have our own personal relationship with Christ, to see us through the times when there won't be any comfortable church family to rely on.

When we refer to our connection to the branch to receive nurishment from the vine we usually think in terms of our needing the fellowship and inspiration from the church. While this is true, the important connection is our personal relationship with Christ.

I seriously believe that, if the truth be known, there are few who feel a close personal relationship with all of their brothers and sisters within the church which we atend: Or always enjoy the music, SS class or sermon. On-the-other-hand, we do have an obligation to treat each other with respect and encouraging words and deeds.

Naomi

[Key Guy]

Naomi,

I know I'm old school, but I simply cannot gain a blessing from music services in church when drums are being used. Rather than praising God, I am seething inside. I have spent considerable time in reflection and prayer regarding my 'hangup' and have concluded that I don't have one! It's just simply not my style of worship and I have accepted that.

Sadly, now I'm seeing bongos (of all things) being used to 'soften' the impact of the introduction of drums into SDA churches.

I'm not saying MY style of worship is any better than the next bro or sis, but I am saying that I have as much a right to shun worship styles that do not uplift me as those who say lofty hymns (even to a simple piano or guitar), pipe organs, choirs, and orchestras turn them off.

The problem is when you don't have many churches in your area to choose from. I am grinning and bearing it, knowing it could (and probably will) get worse.

Fanny Crosby... I'm still in awe!

[Naomi]

Quote:

Sadly, now I'm seeing bongos (of all things) being used to 'soften' the impact of the introduction of drums into SDA churches.

I'm not saying MY style of worship is any better than the next bro or sis, but I am saying that I have as much a right to shun worship styles that do not uplift me as those who say lofty hymns (even to a simple piano or guitar), pipe organs, choirs, and orchestras turn them off.

Now bongos would be a big turn off to me. I have heard drums used in a few songs that did add to a portion of the songs.

To be honest I am old school in my choice of worship style. I love the old songs, a good choir, piano, guitar etc.

It's sad that there are not a lot of choices. I am also in an area where there not a lot of choices. Fortunately my choices are all ultra conservative churches; sometimes too conservative.

This too shall pass away.

Courage,

Naomi

[Key Guy]

I remember when the Heritage Singers came on the scene in the 70's and created quite a stir, with drums!!!

So I have questioned the difference between their style of music (which was acceptable to me) and having live drums in a worship service. I have concluded that 2 differences are most obvious:

1) Most church-level drummers are hacks, not at all good at their craft. This results in more chaos than actual complimentary rhythm.

2) Live drums seem to always drown out the rest of the music and singing. This has been demonstrated over and over at any rock concert where the audience was small enough to be close to the band. (In a big arena, this is not the case).

At least in recorded sacred music where drums are used, the producer usually does an excellent job mixing the tracks to where there is harmony and balance. Live music with non-professionals falls short of that.

Old School Les

(wishing that we could just dump the mics, amps, mixers, and loud speakers when worshipping)

[Naomi]

:) Old School Les

Quote:

(wishing that we could just dump the mics, amps, mixers, and loud speakers when worshipping

Yes, Old School Naomi has the same wish.

Not to mention the songs being projected onto a screen behind the song leader .. or scripture projected during the pastors sermon. Where are the Bibles & songbooks? Guess that is sorry

[Key Guy]

"Not to mention the songs being projected onto a screen behind the song leader .. or scripture projected during the pastors sermon. Where are the Bibles & songbooks? Guess that is off topic sorry"

Not to me.

I recall the most impressive evangelistic series I ever attended. The Aamazing Facts speaker just stood on the stage with Bible in hand and treated us to an old-fashioned Bible study. WOW!! That was simple, powerful and unforgetable. If I am ever called to be a preacher, I'll be traveling light.

[Naomi]

Quote:

I recall the most impressive evangelistic series I ever attended. The Aamazing Facts speaker just stood on the stage with Bible in hand and treated us to an old-fashioned Bible study. WOW!! That was simple, powerful and unforgetable. If I am ever called to be a preacher, I'll be traveling light.

Amen!

At least do some lay evangelistic work ... you would be good.

You never did answer my question about being related to a Bible Worker ... Phil. You look so much alike that everytime I see your picture I want to call you Phil.

[Key Guy]

I DID answer! (I promise) Sorry, no Phils in my family. Does that make us empty?

But, you can still call me Phil if you want.

[Naomi]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh Dear, we must have a black hole here!

Quote:

Does that make us empty?

Nawwwwwwwwww not at all. Oh well, when I see your picture I'll remember a very nice, dedicated person.

I'm sure you are much the same.

Naomi

[Parade Orange]

Hey KeyGuy!

I know aht u mean about the drums.

now its bongos at a few music nightS!! lol

I visited the Placerville church with my buddy and veganraw food diet naturalist lady friend one Sabbath.

we walked in on loud electric guitars and loud drums(ampted up!!!!) and they were singing the modern parise songs of today.

Never before have I have seen such a thing in the SDA church(though -I have heard they exist)- I exclaimed loudly to my friends in embarrasment "THIS MUST BE A CELEBRATION CHURCH!!!!!" at that moment the music halted in between numbers and the whole church heard me yell that! ugh!

I usually whisper remarks if I must say one at church during song service(trying to get settled in). But the music was very very loud so my whisper was very loud!

the people around me gave me an annoying look. I could have died!

timing is everything.

at rock concerts if u must say something u speak loud! So U Can Be heard O V E R The NOISE!!!!

whatever.

Earlier that week my lady friend called the Placerville church to get directions to the place. The stranger invited us to a potluck at someones house. It was a big deal. No one went out of their way to speak to us at church that . So with map in hand from the flyer we found in the foyer we tried to find the house. We wanted despertly to have fellowship with fellow christians and we were so far from home.

The map was based on Highway 49! We didnt know 49 ended at one place and started at another place in Placerville.

Of course being VISTORS we didnt know highway 49 and couldnt find the home. I think the people who made the map made it for the members not visitors. We were legitamatly invited though!

All three of us have no desire to go back.

Keyguy! How do u like Keywest! My sis lived and partied there and told me that was like Sodom and Gommorah! lol. She bartendered there!

[lazarus]

The preferences that both of you describe are fine and it may of course be partly a generational thing too. The problem I have is when individuals in the church ascribe a morality to certain types of worshop.

Some have said to have drums in church is displeasing to God. To lift hands in praise to God is a sin too.

Many churches are simply using technology to better communicate. There were times when there were no hymnbooks, no organ. There were times when all preachers preached extemporaniously!

I preach using my laptop for explicitly teaching sermons and I simply use the Bible for others. We have the screen and Hymnbooks. We have a full band. We have good support form our senior members. Infact our most senior member encouraged us to move in that direction.

The culture that we are familiar with has a strong influence on us. This is not bad in itself but we must be aware that our personal preference is not God's preference.

NB the above was not intended to point fingers at the above posts.

[Naomi]

Quote:

NB the above was not intended to point fingers at the above posts.

Lazarus,

Thank you. It really felt like fingers were be pointed. See how easiy it is to misunderstand a person's reason for making statements on the net. I am so glad that you clarified your reasons for the post as it has been a while since I offended you ... I really hoped I could avoid it in the future.

I certainly do not wish my post to be offensive to you or your style, or anyone else’s. There is a time and place for everything.

I would like to make this perfectly clear, I would never, (and hope that I did not allude to), assume or lead others to believe that I am assuming that my preference is God's preference.

LOL Certainly I would never say it is in-appropriate to use a laptop, projector, etc when preaching. In fact the majority of sermons which I have presented I have used my laptop, projectors, etc.

There is a time and place for everything.

Because my personal preference is different than another’s, and I am as bold as to state it, is not intended as a put down towards anyone.

Naomi

Quote:

[Parade Orange]

My 2 friends and I went to a Natomas(sacramento) SDA church.

I guy spoke to us and the was drums played suring song service.

the drums were very subdued with a light rhythmic tapping.

I love rhythem. I hear it in 'Redeemed' by fanny crosbey as well as many other old hymms.

'He Lives' is one! loverly rhythem.

the church was very modern in look( renting office space in a modern business park). and the members were dressed like todays style and hip.

drums and electric guitars. same instruments different sound.