Those who have left the Church

[onebeecee]

OK this one has got me upset! I will admit I only read the first page, so there may be answers like mine.

How dare we presume that only those that have heard the Three Angels Message (sorry its been a while for me for adventism terms) are worthy of our time!

Ha, OK I'm worthy, I've heard it, walked many different paths, may have ideas that quite don't mesh with the SDA church. Shoot (I'm being nice, as I've been in the "world" I talk quite a bit like it) but did any of you show up on my doorstep? Make a phone call? No not one of you. So did you just class me as unworthy? How dare you judge me!

I've had a bible since I graduated from the Kingsway College Academy. Somehow in the latest move it went missing. I used to pray and ask for God's guidance and open it up and usually find it. This bible, was different, while the first time I opened it, it did blow me away. Matthew 18: 6&7. 10-14 I like the version of the way my bible says it, so I will repeat it.

6. And whoever misleads one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for him that as ass'millstone were hanged on his nec and he were sunk in the depths of the sea.

7. Wo to the world because of offences! Offences are bound to come; but woe to the man by whose hand the offences come!

It than goes into you should cut off your limb, hands, eye, etc.

10. See to it that do not despise one of these little ones; for I say to you, their angels always see the face of my Father in heaven.

11. For the Son of man has come to save what was lost.

12. What do think? if a man should have a hundred sheep, and one of them is lost, would he not leave the ninety and nine one the mountain and go in search of the one which is lost?

13. And if he should find, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety and nine which were not lost.

14. Even so, your Father in heaven does not one of these little ones to be lost.

So by that I am far more worthy than any of you. He has rejoiced that I have chosen to FIND Him! Did any of you do that? NO, not one! As the parable of the prodicol son, whose father rejoices on his return. Do you know why???? Do you really know why? Because we have gone through all the f'n muck this world is made up of. We have seen some of the worst things. Had some of the worst things done to us. We have done some of the worst things! Have very little hope left, and very little trust, so that beginning to trust, in anything let alone in God is not just a small thing it is HUGE! And yet I choose to come here to begin my Sabbath, while welcomed of a sort, but on my own. I have waded through the [censored] of life, to go back to God, to accept that I am covered by the Grace of God, through my Lord Jesus Christ, who has covered my sins with his blood.

So take your worthy [censored] and stick it _________________________. I am worthy, my neighbour who hasn't heard the third angels message is worthy, why because we are all children of God. No one stands before any more equal or unequal in his eyes for we all have sinned, and if not for Jesus, would be doomed.

Boy this is one example of why this met my criteria of this church being a cult, when I did some questioning in the past! If you look up the definition of a cult it has to have five things, a leader or prophet (check) It needs to have a structure, such as Conference President, Paster, Elder, deconesses. (check) Needs a system of control, like this thread, if you haven't heard the three angels message you are not as worthy and therefore won't get to heaven, or you don't accept this message, therefore you won't get to heaven, you don't have star on your crown, therefore you won't be in heaven.(check check check and double check) They need a s system that recruits new members, and then indoctrinates them, with propaganda, health and cooking classes, in my day 5 day stop smoking plan, and I saw a thread, but feared if I checked it out I would be writing something like this, on how to recruit more members (check) And it must be exclusive! (CHECK!!!!!!!)

So maybe keep this in mind. I'd love a response to those 5 requirements, but I doubt I'll get it. So while maybe your EGW can say who is more worthy and who is less. I'll stick with my bible, and know that in questioning that this is a cult, God led me back to him. Do I believe you have all the things to be classed as one yes, but I am now of the belief, it is the people who make up the church who are the difference, so be the difference! And don't leave that 40% out there by themselves. It wouldn't have taken much, just a bit of acceptance to return to this church. And you couldn't have been bothered!

[lukewarm]

I find it interesting that since February, not one person has responded to onebeecee's post. That just proves his/her point: SDA's do not appear to care when someone leaves the church. No one bothers to even find out why or if there is something that can be done about it. I also know this from personal experience. Although the SDA church is still the closest church to my beliefs, I have not used the title, ADVENTIST, to refer to my self in about a decade.  

 

REgarding the 3 angels message, I was raised SDA, have no clue what it is or why people are so hung up on it. So no, leaving the church doesn't necessarily mean denying this mysterious "message"

 

I feel that ADventists should be ashamed of this thread, it was going so well until someone made it all real in the last post in February.  In true Adventist style, no one bothered to respond to the post on this thread. No one cared enough about this person to even try and help. Now someone may have tried to do so privately behind the scenes, but what an observer like myself can see, no one was touched enough by the hurt in this person's post to reach out to him/her. Shame on you!

[Aliensanctuary]

Religions are created by flawed human beings based upon their flawed understanding of the scriptures. We can blast away at other's failures to meet our expectations, but in the end, we are not responsible for them, only for ourselves.

 

The Kingdom of YHVH is not a religion, but a system that was copied in the days of Moses and the Tabernacle in the wilderness. If we wish to join his Kingdom we should study it, both in the OT and in the teachings of Christ. The job of YHVH's servants is not to condemn others for the harm they cause with their false religion, but to point them to the Road of Life. Servants of YHVH will love, honor, and obey him at all times, under all circumstances, do no harm to others or themselves, and, live as servants of YHVH, and all mankind.

 

In the Kingdom of YHVH there is no Self, or Selfishness, because they will no longer exist. Unlikely to happen here on Earth, all members of the Kingdom will care as much, or more, for others than they do for themselves. 

 

Sadly, religion has a strong tendency to produce hardliners with constipated minds, the opposite of what the Kingdom of YHVH teaches.

[JoeMo]

lukewarm,

Maybe some of us didn't answer onebeecee's post because we agree with him (at least partially).  I sympathize with him/her.  My biggest "sign" of a cult is having a prophet whose words supercede scripture.  I know the official SDA stance is that EGW was a lesser light.  However, there are many members who don't agree with that; and they are in my opinion, the ones who make SDA's look like a cult.

 

I personally don't have an issue with those who want to leave.  Jesus is my salvation; not the church.

[LifeHiscost]

Summing the apostasies and missing from 1965 to 2005 leads to a conservative estimate of 509,000 ex-SDA

Of course some of these are dead, but then again this isn't counting the children who were never on the rolls, nor does it count the many on the rolls who have not attended in years

It would appear there are about 1M SDA on the rolls, of whom maybe 5% should be counted as 'missing', 400K ex-SDA easily accounted for, and (given the loss rate of youth) my guess is about another 200-400K of youth who were never on the rolls.

So ex-SDA and SDA are similar numbers in the NAD today.

I'm just wondering if since there are now somewhere around 17-18 million Seventh Day Adventists around the world, if that still holds true? My estimation of what holds believers close to the Truth is a close relationship with Him Who is Truth.

5Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?" 6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."…John 14

God is Love! Jesus saves!

Edited November 18, 2014 by Tom Wetmore
Code correction for quotes

[Sojourner]

I love belonging to the SDA, but being a member does not make me any more saved than anyone else that has been born again in another evangelical church. If someone chooses to leave the SDA for another Christian church then good luck to them. The SDA is not the only church that has the truth of the Gospel. Ellen White also said that Gods remnant are found in various churches including the Catholic church. Yes I value the Sabbath and the doctrines of the SDA and my hope is that people will study those things and understand them from scripture.

I would put it to you that my own litmus test of a cult is also how they treat ex members and if they practice "Shunning" as the Jehovah's Witnesses do where family members cannot be spoken to and no one can remain in friendship with ex members and so forth. The SDA does not practice any form of shunning and I think that speaks volumes about the fact that the SDA is not even remotley like a cult.

I would be far more concerned however about ex members who no longer attend any church at all. Such people need to be reached by us or by another Christian church and its a good thing to make efforts towards doing so. I would openly say that I believe that is God's expectation of us. If we take the parable of the invitations for the wedding feast we too have to take a share in inviting everyone to the feast and going looking for those people that are not already there. If people are away from the church its fair enough for us to assume that they are away from God and to attempt to give them help and encouragement to return.

[lukewarm]

lukewarm,

Maybe some of us didn't answer onebeecee's post because we agree with him (at least partially).  I sympathize with him/her.  My biggest "sign" of a cult is having a prophet whose words supercede scripture.  I know the official SDA stance is that EGW was a lesser light.  However, there are many members who don't agree with that; and they are in my opinion, the ones who make SDA's look like a cult.

 

I personally don't have an issue with those who want to leave.  Jesus is my salvation; not the church.

Yes, I did think of that. I do think that Onebeecee could have used at least a little bit of support or that someone could have tried to talk to him/her.  I just feel the hurt in that post and it seems that no one seemed to care. That was my experience in the SDA church as well, but that's another story...

[lukewarm]

Yes, I did think of that. I do think that Onebeecee could have used at least a little bit of support or that someone could have tried to talk to him/her.  I just feel the hurt in that post and it seems that no one seemed to care. That was my experience in the SDA church as well, but that's another story...