skyblue888 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I would like to say that adventists have every reason to study how William Miller arrived at the conclusions he did. By comparing Scripture with Scripture he realized, to his utter amazement, that one passage is explained by another. It is not Miller himself but the principle he was inspired by the Holy Spirit to adopt in order to come to an understanding of the Scriptures that should arrest our attention, especially regarding the 2,300 day prophecy as found in Daniel 8. The discovery of this principle of interpretation led to the understanding that Christ would not return until the 2,300 day prophecy would come to an end. Of course there was a misunderstanding at first as to what was to happen at the termination of that prophecy. But we know, or should know, that if all who had labored unitedly in the work in 1844 had received the true message and proclaimed it in the power of the Holy Spirit, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts and a flood of light would have been shed upon the world and years ago the inhabitants of the earth would have been warned, the closing work completed, and Christ would have come for the redemption of His people. But that did not happen. It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be so long delayed and His people should remain so many years in this world of sin and sorrow. See G.C.457,458. Because of unbelief, the work has been delayed. We are still delaying the second coming of Christ whether we like to hear it or not. It is a fact. We are stil here and like never before the church has gone to the world in transgression of the law when the world should have come to the church in obedience to the law. There is nothing wrong with saying that through the writings of Mrs. White one gets a clearer and deeper understanding of the Scritpures. At least, this has been and still is my experience. I had read many books from a Bible Society, from evangelical authors, before I was introduced to Ellen Whites's writings. As soon as I began studying her books, it immediately became obvious to me that she was speaking with an authority I had never sensed before and the Bible became a living book to me. Whereas before I found it very difficult to remember any passage of Scripture, now my mind was being filled with passages of Scriptures and I could recall them easily when needed without any difficulty at all simply because her commentaries made these passages of Scripture shine like the sun when it pierces through the dark clouds. I have no problem testifiying to the fact that it was her writings that made me fall in love not only with the Scriptures but with the God of the Scriptures. I cannot even begin to show my true appreciation for her writings and I will always be thankful to God for this amazing gift. There is always something new to discover in her writings as far as what the Scriptures hold. As I delve into the study of her writings, I am always reminded of this passage of Scripture: "Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of Heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old." Matt.13:52. And as far as Seventh-day Adventists wanting to be received as Christians, in the 1950s the leaders of the church went so far as to compromise or repudiate some of the pillars of our faith including the foundation and central pillar, by holding secret meetings with the other churches, in an effort to convince them that we were Christians. It was a success. After the meetings, 18 of them, the Evangelicals declared that we were truly Christians and that they could now accept our outstretched hand and received us as members of the "body of Christ." Prior to these compromises, they had categorized us as among the cults. But the Spirit of the Lord had warned us that we had more to fear from the friendship of the world (worldly churches) than from its enmity. We did not listen. Since then, there has been congenial fellowship with the churches that constitute Babylon. It is a clever counterfeit of our true mission. Not by compromise but by presenting the truth to them in love were they to be won to the God of truth. Happy New Year! sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 And we really don't need "faith in Ellen White" We need faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible. Take the good and throw out the bad. But don't make her God or someone we need to have "faith" in. She herself would have shuttered at that comment. And that's the answer you give when God, through His servants, asks of you this? " Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper."2 Chron 20:20 KJV "I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” "Revelation 19:10 NKJV "For no prophecy ever originated because some man willed it [to do so--it never came by human impulse], but men spoke from God who were borne along (moved and impelled) by the Holy Spirit."2 Peter 1:21 AMP Brackets parenthesis their's LHC God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 "For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved" John 3:17 mel "Our actions will show that we belong to the truth, so we will be confident when we stand before God. Even if we feel guilty, God is greater than our feelings, and he knows everything. Dear friends, if we don’t feel guilty, we can come to God with bold confidence. And we will receive from him whatever we ask because we obey him and do the things that please him."1 John 3:19-22 NLT God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 8, 2011 Members Share Posted January 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: melvin mccarty "For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved" John 3:17 mel Question LHC, how old was this quote from MEL that you are answering? Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Question LHC, how old was this quote from MEL that you are answering? I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me. BTW, have any expired that might have benefited by the answer? LoL "A man has joy by the answer of his mouth, And a word spoken in due season, how good it is!"Proverbs 15:23 NKJV At least the answer seems to fit the title to this forum. Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 9, 2011 Members Share Posted January 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: pkrause Question LHC, how old was this quote from MEL that you are answering? I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me. BTW, have any expired that might have benefited by the answer? LoL "A man has joy by the answer of his mouth, And a word spoken in due season, how good it is!"Proverbs 15:23 NKJV At least the answer seems to fit the title to this forum. LOL, not that its funny but I do believe that he pasted away. I guess I should check this out first, but I do recall it being posted in the pasted away thread or whatever the title is of that thread. I'm gonna checked it out right now. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 It is not unusual for people to fear, question, judge and ignore Prophets. Look at the history of the Jews. They had many Prophets who they ignored, were ashamed of and picked apart because the Prophet showed their true condition before God. A Prophet brings messages from God to His people. They don't contradict themselves. If there appears to be contradictions, as there does also in Scripture, then it is we who don't understand, not they who were in error. I am so glad that God honored us with a Prophet. It is a gift from God that shows how much He loves us. I love the 'Spirit of Prophesy' for it gives such vantage ground in understanding the Scriptures. Yet we should be able to prove all that we believe from the Scriptures alone. I know many who can. As for trying to convince other churches that we are Christian, we shouldn't need to even try, you see it is by our fruits they should know us. They are Babylon, yet with many sincere Christians in their fellowship still, because we haven't shown them how Christian we are. No need for words here, just action. God is waiting for us to demonstrate to them the superiority of our Christianity, the immenseness of our love, our steadfastness to truth and the beauty of a faith that works by love flowing all over all we come in contact with. We don't need to hide anything, or be ashamed of anything, we are God's church, a mighty army of conquerors, we need make no apologies except fot the fact that we have slipped into 'lukewarmness', a wishy washy state in which we love to talk about God's love, but don't know how to show it. We need not conform to Babylon, for we are to rescue the true believers from Babylon. They ought to be making apologies to us, seeking to prove to us that they are true christian churches. It is they who have spurned God's law, they who teach a dead faith and dishonor God by spurning HIS HOLY SABBATH and worship on the Pagan day of worship It is time to arise and put on the Garments of Christ's righteousness, buy of Him that which we lack and then we can take our tails out from between our legs and finish His work soaking every one with the love and truth that flows out of us because of Christ who dwells in us and loves through us. God Bless Dennis Amen Dennis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 They ought to be making apologies to us, seeking to prove to us that they are true christian churches. It is they who have spurned God's law, they who teach a dead faith and dishonor God by spurning HIS HOLY SABBATH and worship on the Pagan day of worship It is time to arise and put on the Garments of Christ's righteousness, buy of Him that which we lack and then we can take our tails out from between our legs and finish His work soaking every one with the love and truth that flows out of us because of Christ who dwells in us and loves through us. Dennis ______________________ Dennis, How about us as a people? "The church has gone over to the world in transgression of the law when the world should have come over to the church in obedience to the law. Daily the church is being converted to the world." Christ's Object Lesson, p.316. "The message to the church of the Laodiceans applies especially to the people of God today. It is a message to professing Christians who have become so much like the world that no difference can be seen." RH Aug.20,1903. In the 1950s we met with representatives of those churches whom you say have spurned God's law to prove to them that we were "Christians" and we succeeded in convincing them but not without compromise or by repudiating certain of the pillars of our faith, even the central pillar! So can we really point the finger at these churches when we are more guilty than they are! We have been exalted to heaven in point of privilege but we have spurned the light sent to us. The fact that we attend church on the Sabbath day does not mean that we are keeping the law. The Jews went to church on Sabbath but were they true law-keepers? True, we must arise and put on the garments of righteousness but how? We cannot rise anymore than the dead can raise themselves from the grave and we cannot put on Christ's garment of righteousness ourselves. Only God can. And He puts it on only as we come to Him trusting wholly in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. The Testimonies speak of "the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into your life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ and not your own righteousness, you will not depend upon what you can do or what you will do," for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." It is "made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God." Faith and Works, p.65,66,27; T.M.92. sky Thus it is written that the only faith that will benefit us is that which appropriates Christ's merits to ourselves. See Desire of Ages, p.347. Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 >>I am curious as to which/what doctrinal point she first presented as truth and then later contradicted?<< I don’t know if you intend “doctrinal point” and “contradicted” as qualifiers - or not; notwithstanding, how would you define EGW’s embrace of the “Shut door” dogma – and her subsequent abandonment of that particularity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 >>We need faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible.<< Indeed. I never spoke with God, Nor visited in heaven; Yet certain am I of the spot As if the chart were given. –Emily Dickinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Quote: Quote:DrWhoCompanion…perhaps she is divinely inspired, yet still a human. Just a segue..., numinous that it may be for some. “Tell all the Truth but tell it slant –“ --Emily Dickinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 >>Satan cannot have so clear a track to bring in his deceptions and bind up souls in his delusions if the warnings and reproofs and counsels of the Spirit of God are heeded." 1 SM 48<< Hard to parse 30+million words of (as Woody put it) the extraBiblical. Most have problems parsing the less than 800,000 words of Holy Writ. Besides, Is 50:2 …Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver? … 1 Cor 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Phil 6:1 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Quote: Quote:PilgrimThey are Babylon, […] …demonstrate to them the superiority of our Christianity, Don’t take me wrong – but disabuse me should I read the post as being particularly [religious] chauvinism re “our” .Org v ‘their’ .org… 1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. 1 Cor 12;13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, […] 1 Cor 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 1 Cor 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 1 Cor 12:23 And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts] have more abundant comeliness. […] 1 Cor 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the members should have the same care one for another. Does St Paul teach .orgism or one body/Jesus Christ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Quote: Hard to parse 30+million words of (as Woody put it) the extraBiblical. Most have problems parsing the less than 800,000 words of Holy Writ Exactly Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 24, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 24, 2011 I dont know if you intend doctrinal point and contradicted as qualifiers - or not; notwithstanding, how would you define EGWs embrace of the Shut door dogma and her subsequent abandonment of that particularity? Ellen White never claimed that God showed her in vision that the Shut Door theory was correct. She also never said that she didn't have personal opinions that were mistaken just like any other human being. It was actually visions from God that helped her see that the Shut Door theory was mistaken. But again, that was never a part of SDA doctrines. Certain aspects of the Shut Door doctrine were true, and Ellen White wrote about those aspects. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 24, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 24, 2011 Satan cannot have so clear a track to bring in his deceptions and bind up souls in his delusions if the warnings and reproofs and counsels of the Spirit of God are heeded." 1 SM 48 Originally Posted By: jasd Hard to parse 30+million words of (as Woody put it) the extraBiblical. Most have problems parsing the less than 800,000 words of Holy Writ. It is not a matter of parsing. A child can understand most of it. For instance, anyone can surely understand the above quote on 1 SM 48. It is only difficult for those who don't want to understand it and obey. That is what Jesus Himself said in John 7: 17 and 8: 31, 32. What is important is not a person's education or the IQ but the abiding in Christ and the willingness to listen and obey the will of God. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 What I've found is that many want to think that they can work their way to heaven. Instead of accepting the Love of God. They want to make the love of self their salvation. It's easy to twist much of our prophet's words to fit that dogma. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 What I've found is that many want to think that they can work their way to heaven. Instead of accepting the Love of God. They want to make the love of self their salvation. It's easy to twist much of our prophet's words to fit that dogma. But every coin has a flip side. The world loves those that love it. Many love to think that they are heaven bound because they have the love of Jesus, but they don't do the works that Jesus did in love. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Quote: but they don't do the works that Jesus did in love. Don't know of ANYone who does. Jesus came and died for us because we can't do the works that He did. He answered the curse of the law because we are just plain unable. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Quote: Quote:Gerry CabaloI am curious as to which/what doctrinal point she first presented as truth and then later contradicted? Quote: Quote:jasdI don’t know if you intend “doctrinal point” and “contradicted” as qualifiers - or not; notwithstanding, how would you define EGW’s embrace of the “Shut door” dogma – and her subsequent abandonment of that particularity? Quote: Quote:John317Ellen White never claimed that God showed her in vision that the Shut Door theory was correct. She also never said that she didn't have personal opinions that were mistaken just like any other human being. It was actually visions from God that helped her see that the Shut Door theory was mistaken. But again, that was never a part of SDA doctrines. Certain aspects of the Shut Door doctrine were true, and Ellen White wrote about those aspects. >>Ellen White never claimed that God showed her in vision that the Shut Door theory was correct.<< “The Lord has shown me in vision that Jesus rose up and shut the door, and entered the Holy of Holies, at the 7th month 1844, but Michael’s standing up (Dan. 12:1) to deliver his people, is in the future.” --Word to the Little Flock AD 1847 Mebbe it is that we all’s just on different pages and that the ‘shut door’ – that was “shown me in vision” had nothing to do with either the ‘antitypical/typical’ day of Atonement or the parable of Matthew 25:10 – and that James White omitted any reference to this ‘embarrassment’ when publishing his “sketch” of EGW’s early visions – because he lacked the funds to include ‘all’ her visions. Yes? He, subsequently, during the following 30 years – had an over-sufficiency of ‘funds’ to ‘revisit’ his wife’s early visions by publication – but chose not. Hmmm… Thus spake she; therefore, it follows that… Ergofusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Quote: Quote:jasdHard to parse 30+million words of (as Woody put it) the extraBiblical. Most have problems parsing the less than 800,000 words of Holy Writ. >>It is not a matter of parsing. A child can understand most of it.<< We've visited this matter of parsing before. May I say that it is not the finiteness nor the granular aspects of EGW's writings that need parsing; but rather, the entirety of her 30+million word text - her opus, if you will - that needs parsing. I'll post to that shortly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Jesus Christ's work redeemed us - unto eternal salvation. We are required only either to believe, or to partake of the communion/mass, or to forgive... for the Father forgives as we forgive. If we have forgiven all - the Father has also forgiven us all. Ipso facto, where there is no longer anything to forgive - we, justified at the cross - are now sanctified blameless... (heaven-bound?) We work for reward... Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Condign merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 15, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 15, 2011 I am curious as to which/what doctrinal point she first presented as truth and then later contradicted? Originally Posted By: jasd I dont know if you intend doctrinal point and contradicted as qualifiers - or not; notwithstanding, how would you define EGWs embrace of the Shut door dogma and her subsequent abandonment of that particularity? Originally Posted By: John317 Ellen White never claimed that God showed her in vision that the Shut Door theory was correct. She also never said that she didn't have personal opinions that were mistaken just like any other human being. It was actually visions from God that helped her see that the Shut Door theory was mistaken. But again, that was never a part of SDA doctrines. Certain aspects of the Shut Door doctrine were true, and Ellen White wrote about those aspects. Originally Posted By: jasd (quoting Ellen White): The Lord has shown me in vision that Jesus rose up and shut the door, and entered the Holy of Holies, at the 7th month 1844, but Michaels standing up (Dan. 12:1) to deliver his people, is in the future. --Word to the Little Flock AD 1847 Mebbe it is that we als just on different pages and that the shut door that was shown me in vision had nothing to do with either the antitypical/typical day of Atonement or the parable of Matthew 25:10 and that James White omitted any reference to this embarrassment when publishing his sketch of EGWs early visions because he lacked the funds to include all her visions. Yes? But Ellen White never said those words printed in 1847 were not true, and SDAs today still believe them. Those words don't mean that there is no more salvation available for sinners. She is there talking about Jesus entering into the Most Holy to begin the Investigative Judgment. Ellen White explained this plainly in 1 SM 62-64. This is what I mean by saying earlier that God never showed her that the "Shut Door" referred to the end of human probabtion. In fact, it was God's visions to Ellen White that helped her to see that the gospel was to continue being proclaimed to the world. Please see Ellen White's own words below: Quote: The "Shut Door" Defined It is claimed that these expressions prove the shut-door doctrine, and that this is the reason of their omission in later editions. But in fact they teach only that which has been and is still held by us as a people, as I shall show. 63 {1SM 62.4} For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position. {1SM 63.1} I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents. {1SM 63.2} There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah: {1SM 63.3} "My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years" (Genesis 6:3). {1SM 63.4} There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven. {1SM 63.5} There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, "Your house is left unto you desolate" (Matthew 23:38). {1SM 63.6} Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John: {1SM 63.7} "These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Revelation 3:7). {1SM 63.8} I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels' messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. And those who accepted it and received the Holy Spirit which attended the proclamation of the message from heaven, and who afterward renounced their faith and pronounced their experience a delusion, thereby rejected the Spirit of God, and it no longer pleaded with them. {1SM 63.9} Those who did not see the light, had not the guilt of its rejection. It was only the class who had despised the light 64 from heaven that the Spirit of God could not reach. And this class included, as I have stated, both those who refused to accept the message when it was presented to them, and also those who, having received it, afterward renounced their faith. These might have a form of godliness, and profess to be followers of Christ; but having no living connection with God, they would be taken captive by the delusions of Satan. These two classes are brought to view in the vision--those who declared the light which they had followed a delusion, and the wicked of the world who, having rejected the light, had been rejected of God. No reference is made to those who had not seen the light, and therefore were not guilty of its rejection. {1SM 63.10} In order to prove that I believed and taught the shut-door doctrine, Mr. C gives a quotation from the Review of June 11, 1861, signed by nine of our prominent members. The quotation reads as follows: {1SM 64.1} "Our views of the work before us were then mostly vague and indefinite, some still retaining the idea adopted by the body of advent believers in 1844, with William Miller at their head, that our work for 'the world' was finished, and that the message was confined to those of the original advent faith. So firmly was this believed that one of our number was nearly refused the message, the individual presenting it having doubts of the possibility of his salvation because he was not in 'the '44 move.'" {1SM 64.2} To this I need only to add, that in the same meeting in which it was urged that the message could not be given to this brother, a testimony was given me through vision to encourage him to hope in God and to give his heart fully to Jesus, which he did then and there. {1SM 64.3} Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Quote: Ellen White never claimed that God showed her in vision that the Shut Door theory was correct. She also never said that she didn't have personal opinions that were mistaken just like any other human being. Do I understand you to say that unless EGW says it was from God ... we must consider it to be her own human opinion? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 15, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 15, 2011 No. She never wrote anything to the church that was merely her personal opinion. She also never wrote to the church that the door of mercy was shut against the whole world. In her writings, there is always a clear difference between her mere opinion and the light that God has shown her. See 1 SM 38-39: Quote: I am troubled in regard to Brother A, who for some years has been a worker in southern California. He has made some strange statements, and I am pained to see him denying the testimonies as a whole because of what seems to him an inconsistency--a statement made by me in regard to the number of rooms in the Paradise Valley Sanitarium. Brother A says that in a letter written to one of the brethren in southern California, the statement was made by me that the sanitarium contained forty rooms, when there were really only thirty-eight. This, Brother A gives to me as the reason why he has lost confidence in the testimonies. . . . {1SM 38.1} The information given concerning the number of rooms in the Paradise Valley Sanitarium was given, not as a revelation from the Lord, but simply as a human opinion. There has never been revealed to me the exact number of rooms in any of our sanitariums; and the knowledge I have obtained of such things I have gained by inquiring of those who were supposed to know. In my words, when speaking upon these common subjects, there is nothing to lead minds to believe that I receive my knowledge in a vision from the Lord and am stating it as such. . . . {1SM 38.2} When the Holy Spirit reveals anything regarding the institutions connected with the Lord's work, or concerning the work of God upon human hearts and minds, as He has revealed these things through me in the past, the message given is to be regarded as light given of God for those who need it. But for one to mix the sacred with the common is a great mistake. In a tendency to do this we may see the working of the enemy to destroy souls. {1SM 38.3} To every soul whom God has created He has given capabilities to serve Him, but Satan seeks to make this work of service hard by his constant temptation to mislead souls. He works to dim the spiritual perceptions that men may not distinguish between that which is common and that 39 which is holy. I have been made to know this distinction through a life's service for my Lord and Master.... {1SM 38.4} The message came to me, Dedicate yourself to the highest work ever committed to mortals. I will give you high aspirations and powers and a true sense of the work of Christ. You are not your own, for you are bought with a price, by the life and death of the Son of God. God calls for your child's heart and service under the sanctification of the Holy Spirit. {1SM 39.1} I gave myself, my whole being, to God, to obey His call in everything, and since that time my life has been spent in giving the message, with my pen and in speaking before large congregations. It is not I who controls my words and actions at such times. {1SM 39.2} But there are times when common things must be stated, common thoughts must occupy the mind, common letters must be written and information given that has passed from one to another of the workers. Such words, such information, are not given under the special inspiration of the Spirit of God. Questions are asked at times that are not upon religious subjects at all, and these questions must be answered. We converse about houses and lands, trades to be made, and locations for our institutions, their advantages and disadvantages. {1SM 39.3} I receive letters asking for advice on many strange subjects, and I advise according to the light that has been given me. Men have again and again opposed the counsel that I have been instructed to give because they did not want to receive the light given, and such experiences have led me to seek the Lord most earnestly.--Manuscript 107, 1909. {1SM 39.4} See also 1 SM 27-29 below: Quote: "Yet now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God. You know how the Lord has manifested Himself through the Spirit of prophecy. Past, present, and future have passed before me. I have been shown faces that I had never seen, and years afterward I knew them when I saw them. I have been aroused from my sleep with a vivid sense of subjects previously presented to my mind and I have written, at midnight, letters that have gone across the continent, and arriving at a crisis, have saved great disaster to the cause of God. This has been my work for many years. A power has impelled me to reprove and rebuke wrongs that I had not thought of. Is this work of the last thirty-six years from above or from beneath? ... {1SM 27.1} "When I went to Colorado I was so burdened for you that, in my weakness, I wrote many pages to be read at your camp meeting. Weak and trembling, I arose at three o'clock in the morning to write to you. God was speaking through clay. You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, it was a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your minds things that had been shown me. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne.... {1SM 27.2} "What voice will you acknowledge as the voice of God? What power has the Lord in reserve to correct your 28 errors and show you your course as it is? What power to work in the church? If you refuse to believe until every shadow of uncertainty and every possibility of doubt is removed, you will never believe. The doubt that demands perfect knowledge will never yield to faith. Faith rests upon evidence, not demonstration. The Lord requires us to obey the voice of duty, when there are other voices all around us urging us to pursue an opposite course. It requires earnest attention from us to distinguish the voice which speaks from God. We must resist and conquer inclination, and obey the voice of conscience without parleying or compromise, lest its promptings cease, and will and impulse control. {1SM 27.3} "The word of the Lord comes to us all who have not resisted His Spirit by determining not to hear and obey. This voice is heard in warnings, in counsels, in reproof. It is the Lord's message of light to His people. If we wait for louder calls or better opportunities, the light may be withdrawn, and we left in darkness.... {1SM 28.1} "It pains me to say, my brethren, that your sinful neglect to walk in the light has enshrouded you in darkness. You may now be honest in not recognizing and obeying the light; the doubts you have entertained, your neglect to heed the requirements of God, have blinded your perception so that darkness is now to you light, and light is darkness. God has bidden you to go forward to perfection. Christianity is a religion of progress. Light from God is full and ample, waiting our demand upon it. Whatever blessings the Lord may give, He has an infinite supply beyond, an inexhaustible store from which we may draw. Skepticism may treat the sacred claims of the gospel with jests, scoffing, and denial. The spirit of worldliness may contaminate the many and control the few; the cause of God may hold its ground only by great exertion and continual sacrifice, yet it will triumph finally. {1SM 28.2} "The word is: Go forward; discharge your individual duty, and leave all consequences in the hands of God. If we move forward where Jesus leads the way we shall see His triumph, we shall share His joy. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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