Teen pregnancy

[Gail]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Maybe its because the subject is about (s e x)!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It could very well be. After all, nobody wants to watch other people's amorous advances. It's like being privy to something that inwardly we feel is a private matter

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "As to the rape statement, in the 40-plus couples we have had the privilege of working with in the last two years, each of them has had some cleaning to do in the moral area."

Rape does not rule out the above. The above does not rule out rape.

Rape occurs after the woman says NO! Up to that point it is not rape.

My fundamental point is not to argue rape, it is to suggest that we who look at a pregnant teen female, and assume sin probably do not know enough about it to determine sin, or what that sin might have been.

Rape can occur between a dating couple. There are times when it does occur.

[olger]

"There are times when it does occur." Dear Greg. There are indeed times, but the very small percentage of them make your example an abstract one at best.

Sexual abuse is more common.

olger

[Dr. Shane]

I think the response in most NAD churches would be to ignore the pregnant teen. She would feel condemned without anyone speaking to her and most likely leave the church never to return again.

Another common response would be to show her how unjudgmental the church is, shower her with "love", maybe a baby shower and then feel like the church did its part. Ignore her, not pay her any more special attention. Since her sin was never addressed, she never felt forgiven and clensed. She still ends up leaving the church and most of the folks wonder why, what could have they done differently.

The third common response is the judgmental one. Someone or a group condemn her and maybe she gets disfellowshipped. She leaves the church and never returns.

The best response and probally the least common is to approach her as Brother Olger has demonstrated. Show her love, bring her to repentance so she knows forgiveness and feels clensed.

The reason this sin is different is because it is public. Not so much because it is about sex. It is simular to a church member getting arrested for fraud or losing his or her children due to child abuse. These are public sins and thus the "sinner" feels much more sinful and needs reconcilation with both the Lord and the church.

[Stan]

I was working a shift in emergency once, and the paramedics (I had taken training with one of them) brought in a 2 year old child they had tried to resuscitate. Her mom left her alone in the bathtub when she went to get a phone call. She had tied to get out of the tub and slipped landing face down, I do not remember all the details, but I think the baby did not last more than a few hours, or maybe she was DOA.

What I do remember is 2-3 Nurses telling the mom (at different times) she should not leave a 2 year old alone in the tub. Common sense to me, would be to realize maybe she picked up that thought by that time.

Would the unwed mother perhaps already pick this thought up, how would one bring her to repentance?? Chances are good that her and God have had a few conversations without her being humiliated publicly even more...

All of us have done things we have regretted, those who have no regrets maybe be psychopathic <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Dr. Shane]

The pregnant teens I have worked with have not even been members of the church. "Bring to repentance" perhaps isn't the right termenolgy because they are normally quite repentant. My point is that if the sin issue is ignored, they may never feel forgiven or clensed.

I am not suggesting one say, "You know what you did was wrong?" but more along the line of, "You know each of us makes mistakes and needs God's forgiveness and He is always faithful to forgive."

[olger]

Right on, Shane.

olger

[olger]

Dear CoAsp. How are you today?

Your comparison of sexual immorality to breaking a bone, while no doubt well-intended could well be one of the weakest analogies I've yet heard. Sorry.

""Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star" (The Last Chapter of The Book).

God is able to heal AND to cleanse us. If the first Adamic nature was sufficient, there would have been no need for the second one (Romans 5).

All the best,

olger

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Why must someone get up in front of the whole congregation and *confess*? What is so *cleansing* about that? The girl didn't sin against the congregation.

And whose job is it to bring a person to repentance anyway? []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/]

[olger]

Dear Rudy: She wanted to do this, remember? No one forced her. Don't forget that... Her courage was rewarded with reconciliation and love from her fellow members.

It is the job of the Holy Spirit to bring us to repentance. When we humble ourselves and speak the truth in love, it will open the door for others to respond to us.

There are three things that amaze me:

I am amazed how sin binds us and brings defeat into our lives.

I am amazed how accurate the Bible is to give solutions to every problem that we face.

I am amazed how repentance & cleansing frees a person.

Have a good week,

olger

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Dear Olger,

My name is Pam.

The idea of getting up in front of everyone was NOT the girl's idea...you stated it was given as an option by you.. I have an idea that she was not wild about the idea, but felt compelled to do it (but compelled by what or who?).

I was given the same sort of *option* about my witchcraft. "Let the congregation get to knnooooowww you, Pam, so they can feel like they want to heeellllllppppp you, Pam." Well, I got up and *confessed.* And ever since I've felt like a pariah. The pastor quotes the text of *Thou shall not suffer a witch to live..* - all heads turned towards me. The pastor quotes Paul about sorcerers, and all heads turn towards me. Almost in unison. And I've been told people in the congregation are afraid of me.

I would never in a million years suggest to a person to get up and *confess* their sins in front of a congregation.

But this is just the opinion of an exwitch who's been *burned.*

[Stan]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

The pastor quotes the text of *Thou shall not suffer a witch to live..* - all heads turned towards me.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Remember 50% of Pastors have people/professional skills of the bottom 1/2 of their colleagues...

[cricket]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

The idea of getting up in front of everyone was NOT the girl's idea...you stated it was given as an option by you.. I have an idea that she was not wild about the idea, but felt compelled to do it (but compelled by what or who?).

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I wonder what her other options might have been. a) Confess the sin in a public way, or face censorship or excommunication?

Of course there is also the other option that is never given by the church: leave the church and never come back.

[cricket]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Remember 50% of Pastors have people/professional skills of the bottom 1/2 of their colleagues...

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

And yet...all pastors should have better people/professional skills than the majority of the general public. After all, the focus of the profession is "people".

[olger]

Hi Pam.

There is a fourth thing that amazes me. I am amazed how you know more about the situation that I referenced than I do.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, not all of them are.

As to the witchcraft, I am glad that you renounced darkness. God is good. He will continue to bring good out of His light in your life. Tell me about the experience, if you like.

I had a girl call us for counseling with an SRA background, recently.

olger

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

I am amazed how you know more about the situation that I referenced than I do.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

::bows::

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/focus.gif" alt="" />

[olger]

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Gail]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Of course there is also the other option that is never given by the church: leave the church and never come back.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I have heard of a situation where a girl in that condition did get up and publicly confess.

But I think that if it were me, I would be mortified to do that and the option that Chris mentioned above would probably be where I would find myself.

Sometimes I wonder if such a procedure is good for the viewing audience, but those are just my ponderings.

[Dr. Shane]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Why are we even concerned about the pregnant teen 'sin' any more than any other 'sin'?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It is a public sin. That is the major difference. The church has a responsability to try and restore the fallen member. This is equally so with those convicted of crimes or those that have their children taken away due to child abuse. Yes, we all have sins but the church cannot be expected to help me with my secret sins since they are 'secret'.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Why are so many christians bent on always trying to correct the 'sin' in others lives.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I think this is assuming the worst about others. Sure, some in the church are judgmental hypercrits. But a lot are good-hearted, loving people that wish to help in a goddly way.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

::timidly raises hand::

But isn't the sin of hypocrisy just as public as any other *public* sin? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Nobody seems to want to condemn *that*...In fact, that's where the *You-need-to-be-looking-at-Jesus-instead-of-anyone-else* mantra comes into play.

[Dr. Shane]

Hypocracy is a peculiar sin. One could observe that some who want to be compassionate with preganant teens but not with judgemental hypocrits are themselve hypocrits too. Why should we be compassionate with a preganant teen but not a judgemental hypocrit? And when we judge the judgemental hypocrit for being judgmental don't when then become a hypocrit ourselves?

Wheeeeeeeeeeeew... I think it is easier to focus on one sin issue at a time.

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/focus.gif" alt="" />

[olger]

Hypocrisy

Moral Failure

Pride

Rebellion

Occult

Bitterness

Each of these are spiritual sins and will damage our relationship with God and others. The way of freedom is to acknowledge & renounce them.

I had some of these issues too, and used the tools God gave us to resolve them. The Lord is better than we thought.

olger

[Dr. Shane]

I have found that secrets keep me sick. When someone else discovers a secret sin of mine, and helps me with it... It is like a great burdon is being lifted off my sholders.

[GodsOath]

There are some sins you don't want to reveal because that can help someone backslide as you are cleansing yourself from sin. I've noticed that some people have joined our church because their sins are well known in their other church and they want a clean break. Also I wouldn't feel equipped to deal with a teenage pregnancy. I would make known I'm there if they need help. I feel that the only one that needs to speak to the teen is the pastor and maybe the elders and then a public declaration made by the pastor of reconciliation with the teen followed by the congregations show of support.