Woody Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Quote: dude ???? Interesting choice of words. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 A Mary Poppins show has songs that appeal to the women more than men. "And IIII...I'm desperate for you..." is not really a line that true males can go along with. I believe the singer of that song was originally a man. I believe it takes a true man (or woman) to recognize and admit their desperate need for God. Maybe the question should be, how can we help our men to get to that point. But then again, I'm a female.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Point those men to Jesus. I think that when you study the life of Jesus he can convict any gender. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Quote: "And IIII...I'm desperate for you..." My wife I both agree that that one stinks... oG Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Male Man Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 All I can do is point you to the stats. You can reason it away if you like but in the end something aint right. The problem has been in asking fringe dwelling guys why they don't attend being made difficult by the men themselves who try to not sound judgemental as they have been indoctrinated to do. They may not want to offend their wives who go to church without them or they may not want to insult the member who asks. They will make up something to avoid hurt and discomfort for you - why? Because that is what they have been taught about church - you don't speak your mind and you must be on your best behaviour at all times. You will not get a straight answer from these guys unless you are there at the bar when they talk to their mates - then the truth will come out. Church men who have been freed by this message however well know what I am saying but few are here on this site because it is not a very tolerable place for such. In the US and Australia this message has taken hold quite radically and strongly. It will come to a church like yours but it depends on the leaders reaction to it when it comes. Some may reject it as some of you have and some may mold it into what they want but some churches thankfully are looking very seriously at it and wondering if this is a researgance of the Holy Spirit to take the church to a place where they don't normally want to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Quote: "And IIII...I'm desperate for you..." My wife I both agree that that one stinks... oG I can't take the credit that you gave me for this quote Olger. But I am curious how your wife got involved in this issue. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Quote: All I can do is point you to the stats. You can reason it away if you like but in the end something aint right. My daughter says that she is avoiding the eating of pickles. She says that pickles were common in the 1800 and that all people, who ate them, and born during the 1800s are either dead or soon to be ... Stats can say a lot of things...and many times, not what is intended...Some people will point to one set of stats, but not the other set that refute what is implied with the first set. Sure, we can say that there is a 30-40% attendence of males in church...But the cause of that is subject to speculation... Church doesn't appeal to some males..who wants to go there and listen to someone preach...got better things to do....got friends to hang out with.... There are a whole host of reasons....but to suggest that church is excusively female orientated is spurious at best.. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Male Man Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Quote: Church doesn't appeal to some males..who wants to go there and listen to someone preach...got better things to do....got friends to hang out with.... There are a whole host of reasons....but to suggest that church is excusively female orientated is spurious at best.. "Who want's to go there and listen to someone preach" - yeah exactly. Who wants to go and listen to someone ramble on about nothing in such a weak fashion that it doesn't heckle the devil. Stats on their own can seem like they are saying nothing but combined with other facts can pinpoint a problem. Evidence for me that church has become weak and feminised; 1. The stats 2. Personal experience 3. Satan not angry enough 4. No persecution arising from preaching in our churches (I'm not talking of poorer countries where persecution is) 5. The way this subject is always downplayed - not just here but in most feminised churches 6. The bible and EGW talk of the Laodicean spirit on our churches in the last days and that the preaching of this message will catapalt us into the end times. (the Laodicean being a church person who sees nothing wrong and is comfortable and doesn't want to rock the boat) 7. Preachers are not renowned today as they used to be. if you analyse the words spoken by the preachers of the reformation and those now in print then there is a vast difference - a weakness of modern preachers messages. 8. Churches where males are catered for produce better outcomes whith young people. 9. Churches where male services are done produce happier families. 10. God designed that men figure prominently in the messgae and church life. When this is out of balance then the message loses it's impact in many areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Quote: church has become weak and feminised Would this qualify as an attack on the church? Or is it classified as calling sin by its name? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there buster Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Donald Joy and George Barna have both done some serious work on this issue. You may not like MaleMan's approach, but his basic position is undeniable. The SDA church is overwhelmingly female, and those men who remain and gain success in that structure have adapted their behavior to that environment. There are exceptions, but the church--and this forum--exhibit definite feminized tendencies. Some time ago, when I gave a men's retreat, I confessed to the organizer that I seldom go to men's retreats. When asked why, I said, "Because they're generally not men's retreats. They're women's retreats for men." He was a little miffed. After the men's retreat, he said, "I see what you mean, now. This was really a men's retreat." It is possible for a church to overly masculinized. But that doesn't happen to be where the culture of Adventism is these days. For the record, I see no bar to the ordination of women. A woman pastor who resonated with a feminized congregation would make the church even more inhospitable to men, but we're already at 70/30 or thereabouts. We're losing the young people of both sexes so rapidly it soon will be a moot point. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Quote: Church doesn't appeal to some males..who wants to go there and listen to someone preach...got better things to do....got friends to hang out with.... There are a whole host of reasons....but to suggest that church is excusively female orientated is spurious at best.. "Who want's to go there and listen to someone preach" - yeah exactly. Who wants to go and listen to someone ramble on about nothing in such a weak fashion that it doesn't heckle the devil. Stats on their own can seem like they are saying nothing but combined with other facts can pinpoint a problem. Evidence for me that church has become weak and feminised; 1. The stats 2. Personal experience 3. Satan not angry enough 4. No persecution arising from preaching in our churches (I'm not talking of poorer countries where persecution is) 5. The way this subject is always downplayed - not just here but in most feminised churches 6. The bible and EGW talk of the Laodicean spirit on our churches in the last days and that the preaching of this message will catapalt us into the end times. (the Laodicean being a church person who sees nothing wrong and is comfortable and doesn't want to rock the boat) 7. Preachers are not renowned today as they used to be. if you analyse the words spoken by the preachers of the reformation and those now in print then there is a vast difference - a weakness of modern preachers messages. 8. Churches where males are catered for produce better outcomes whith young people. 9. Churches where male services are done produce happier families. 10. God designed that men figure prominently in the messgae and church life. When this is out of balance then the message loses it's impact in many areas. I am sorry, but while you emphasize "men", my understanding is that it is NOT the lack of men who make a 'weak emfeminanate church" happen...No, to correct the problem is not to emphasize men's lack of work in the church, nor the church service's catering to men desire/interests...No, the proper emphasis is God. And when men walk away from God, they do other things, like hang with like minded friends, complain about poor preaching in the church, and other things that just doesn't appeal to unchurched men.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there buster Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Quote: And when men walk away from God, they do other things, like hang with like minded friends, complain about poor preaching in the church, and other things that just doesn't appeal to unchurched men It's a mistake to equate walking away from the church to walking away from God. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 19, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 19, 2008 Never had heroes. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Male Man Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Quote: Would this qualify as an attack on the church? No. An "attack" on the church would be designed to hurt the church in a negative way. The motive would be to bring it down or damage it in it's mission. I support the church with my tithes and offerings but that does not mean I don't speak out about what I see as a serious trend towards danger in our church. More like a warning rather than an attack I should think. Quote: They're women's retreats for men." He was a little miffed. Stands and salutes you. That is very interesting because I went to one recently and felt the same way. The chosen conference speaker was saying we had to get in touch with our feminine side which rankled a few me present. Quote: the proper emphasis is God. And when men walk away from God, they do other things, like hang with like minded friends, complain about poor preaching in the church, and other things that just doesn't appeal to unchurched men.... Again, if it were our youth would you be saying the same thing. Are these men walking away as you say or is church boring the hell out of them that they can't stomach it anymore? Your answer is an effeminate one which has as it's basis the belief that men are to blame because they are less spiritual than women - bollocks. Have aread through the bible tonight - particularly the NT. Quote: It's a mistake to equate walking away from the church to walking away from God. Icabod shall be remembered. It is more than a mistake - it's an irresponsible and foolish thing to say or think. it highlights classic SDA thinking on sensitive issues. As in the past, when a problem arises the church is never at fault but always the individual. This mentality was seen when I was a pastor at the upper levels and it filters down to those who are converts of the current idiocracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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