Stan Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 AS well as the lack of credibly they cause, not only this forum, but the other adventist forums worldwide. Conferences, Unions and Division would be insane to ever start their own. Using this avenue as their personal playground to take down others. If one does not like or respect what someone else has done then do something better. If 'your calling' is to publicly destroy anything here that does not meet your approval, then go elsewhere. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 rumors are one thing, sharing the truth unpleasant though it may be is another issue correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Here is an example Often, almost 100% of the time, when people are terminated for whatever cause, there is a non-disclosure clause, especially if they are paid more than minimum wage, or higher than the state law. That is how business is done. Rumor and hate mongers insinuate this is a gag order and very rare. Giving a completely different flavor. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 9, 2006 Members Share Posted August 9, 2006 and rumors don't need to be *big* to cause a lot of harm.. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted August 9, 2006 Administrators Share Posted August 9, 2006 The bad thing about rumours or even bad news that is spread, is that it colours the listener's mind negatively toward the subject of the rumour, sometimes forever. Just think- what will you always remember Bill Clinton for? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Quote: Stan Jensen said: Here is an example Often, almost 100% of the time, when people are terminated for whatever cause, there is a non-disclosure clause, especially if they are paid more than minimum wage, or higher than the state law. That is how business is done. Rumor and hate mongers insinuate this is a gag order and very rare. Giving a completely different flavor. Is this also true of our conference offices when they terminate a pastor, teacher, or conference employee?? Not in respect to employment outside the denomination, but re- employment in another state after termination? Do our conference offices refuse or are they not allowed to share pertinent information to prevent a party that has been terminated from repeating his offense in another conference? Fraud, theft of any kind, a moral fall etc? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Gail said: The bad thing about rumours or even bad news that is spread, is that it colours the listener's mind negatively toward the subject of the rumour, sometimes forever. Just think- what will you always remember Bill Clinton for? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Bill Clinton showed who Bill Clinton really was. A man willing without remorse to nationally humiliate his wife and daughter, to compound over and over again by lying, blaming others for this vast conspiracy against him. What is "the bad thing" about remembering what Bill Clinton taught us about Bill Clinton?? Remembering does not say that positive accomplishments can't or shouldn't be remembered, but it is also well to remember the real person Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Quote: Stan Jensen said: Here is an example Often, almost 100% of the time, when people are terminated for whatever cause, there is a non-disclosure clause, especially if they are paid more than minimum wage, or higher than the state law. That is how business is done. Rumor and hate mongers insinuate this is a gag order and very rare. Giving a completely different flavor. no that is not true... I can be fired from my job and I can say anything I want about the working conditions, the supervisors etc... so it depends.... and if in fact people are not allowed to discuss it, then it is a gag order. It may be "how things are done" but it is still a gag order... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> bonnie said: Is this also true of our conference offices when they terminate a pastor, teacher, or conference employee?? Not in respect to employment outside the denomination, but re- employment in another state after termination? Do our conference offices refuse or are they not allowed to share pertinent information to prevent a party that has been terminated from repeating his offense in another conference? Fraud, theft of any kind, a moral fall etc? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> good point... if some of these employees who have been fired for stealing money or having affairs, or molesting kids, then maybe other conferences would not employ them in the same positions allowing them to in essence do the same thing over again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 so let me see if I am understanding this... are you suggesting Stan that no one say anything truth or rumor about anyone or just people in positions of power? If the rumor is that the pastor is having private counseling sessions, late at night, with single females in his church office, and that these "sessions" are lasting several hours... what should be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Just repeating a rumor does damage. I once worked on a political campaign and our opponant had voted for a bill in Congress that someone else had attached an ammendment to for legalized, medical marijuana. So the campaign I was working on printed on our literature that our opponent favored legalizing marijuana. We knew that he not only didn't author the bill but wasn't even aware of the ammendment when he voted for it. Yet the more we talked about it, and forced him to talk about it, the more damage the rumor did. So it is with any rumor. Regardless if it is true or not. The more it is repeated, the more damage it does. Knowing that, we must ask ourselves what motive we have in repeating a rumor. Why do we hope to accomplish by repeating a rumor? Will repeating the rumor do more damage than good? Will innocent people get hurt by repeating a rumor? If so, will it be worth it to achieve our purpose? Probverbs says that where there is no wood there is no fire and where there is no talebearer there is no strife. And Jesus says, blessed are the peacemakers. A talebearer is the opposite of a peacemaker. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> If one does not like or respect what someone else has done then do something better. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Just a hypothetical example: So if I don't like the liberal politics of John Carter getting worked into his sermons, I should start my own ministry instead of criticising his? Is that what is trying to be said? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Quote: bonnie said: Quote: Stan Jensen said: Here is an example Often, almost 100% of the time, when people are terminated for whatever cause, there is a non-disclosure clause, especially if they are paid more than minimum wage, or higher than the state law. That is how business is done. Rumor and hate mongers insinuate this is a gag order and very rare. Giving a completely different flavor. Is this also true of our conference offices when they terminate a pastor, teacher, or conference employee?? Not in respect to employment outside the denomination, but re- employment in another state after termination? Do our conference offices refuse or are they not allowed to share pertinent information to prevent a party that has been terminated from repeating his offense in another conference? Fraud, theft of any kind, a moral fall etc? Yes this is true for the termination SETTLEMENT with an employee, the same is true in most organizations, private or public... The personal records are handled seperately Things that are a matter of public record, are a matter of public record. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Quote: claborn1960 said: Quote: bonnie said: Is this also true of our conference offices when they terminate a pastor, teacher, or conference employee?? Not in respect to employment outside the denomination, but re- employment in another state after termination? Do our conference offices refuse or are they not allowed to share pertinent information to prevent a party that has been terminated from repeating his offense in another conference? Fraud, theft of any kind, a moral fall etc? good point... if some of these employees who have been fired for stealing money or having affairs, or molesting kids, then maybe other conferences would not employ them in the same positions allowing them to in essence do the same thing over again.... This is one of the reasons why RMS wants charges laid against those who need to be charged. If people are not willing to lay charges, then the blood (or whatever of the next victim) in my opinion is on them as well. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Quote: claborn1960 said: so let me see if I am understanding this... are you suggesting Stan that no one say anything truth or rumor about anyone or just people in positions of power? If the rumor is that the pastor is having private counseling sessions, late at night, with single females in his church office, and that these "sessions" are lasting several hours... what should be done? Is it a rumor or is it a fact???? If it is a fact it needs to be dealt with, if it is a rumour that people area spreading all over the internet, because they heard someone say that their cousin is sure that he heard from a friend of his,... then it should be stopped and action taken... Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Quote: no that is not true... I can be fired from my job and I can say anything I want about the working conditions, the supervisors etc... so it depends.... and if in fact people are not allowed to discuss it, then it is a gag order. It may be "how things are done" but it is still a gag order... You do not have to agree to a settlement, if you do agree to it you better keep it, if you are forced under gun point or what ever, you would need to take legal recourse. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Please don't get me wrong, I am not about to turn this into a drawn our conversation. Not am I going to be on the defense and feel like I need to respond to every question people have for me. People are hurting the Church by spreading ugly rumours rather than taking Biblical and legal recourse to everything. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Quote: Stan Jensen said: Yes this is true for the termination SETTLEMENT with an employee, the same is true in most organizations, private or public... The personal records are handled seperately Things that are a matter of public record, are a matter of public record. So if a pastor is terminated, no longer allowed to perform his duties as a pastor because of the issues that forced his termination, he is free to go to another state and begin again? Then the pledge by any denomination to put a stop to corrupt behaviour is an empty one at best. Maybe that explains why a pastor leaving our state after termination for a moral fall with a babysitter is now a highly respected employee of the denomination in another. Ironic that the man that fired him works in close connection with him in the other state. So close in fact that they had their picture in the outlook, shaking hands, profusely praising each other for being such a godly man. Something is just a little wrong with that picture. You made in a following post that a victim has the responsibility for the next victim if they don't report and prosecute. Once again the victim must take responsibility, no matter how scared, how shamed, how alone they feel. They must be willing to face the gauntlet of the saints. And it is formidable, especially at a time they may not even still comprehend what has happened to them. Or they are a terrified child, or a young vulnerable teen. To often they are not believed and they are the problem, not the one they reported. Or if believed they are still responsible somehow and the denomination will see to it that the victim understands that Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Unless charges are laid it is nothing more than a rumor. If a person credentials are taken removed than all kinds of flags go up don't they. Only a fool would recommend someone to another conference that put him and his conference at risk. There have been too many victims, both in members and in Clergy. However this thread is not about sexual abuse. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I know I have mentioned my cute little small country church before. Well... The treasurer told my good lady friend how much tithe a rich member pays. The Treasurer hadnt seen my lady friend in awhile so she wanted to 'keep their closeness' by divulging certain friendly gossip. The lady friend used to be a border on her property so they were very close in years past. My lady friend went to my home right after leaving the Treasurer and was upset. She told me She isnt glad she dont tithe at that church. It kind of spooked her. I could of asked the amount. I have known him or known of him since I was a teen cause that rich guy was married to the family that introduced me to Adventism as a kid. Its a small town and a small church where everybody knows each other business. I know too much and I dont repeat it more often than not. It does nobody good. It just proves 'I'm in the know', and so what. This kind of gossip makes its rounds weekly at my cute little small town church. Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 and I didnt ask how much cause I dont care about him. He is one of many christian men that I grew up with and yet dont know. they are Lone Ranger Christian Men. they read and pray and do right things but are not in Fellowship with people(men). they assemble all right but dont get too close! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted August 9, 2006 Administrators Share Posted August 9, 2006 Exactly- most people don't like when it happens to them. You would think that would make them not want to do it to others as well. I have a neighbour that seems to know everybody's business. I always try to avoid him thinking if he talks that way about others, I wonder what he tells others about me. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Quote: and I didnt ask how much cause I dont care about him. Good 4 U!!! Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Quote: Stan Jensen said: Please don't get me wrong, I am not about to turn this into a drawn our conversation. Not am I going to be on the defense and feel like I need to respond to every question people have for me. People are hurting the Church by spreading ugly rumours rather than taking Biblical and legal recourse to everything. then the point of starting this thread was what? People in church are also hurt and abuse by those in leadership positions... but that's cool... we need not talk about it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> then the point of starting this thread was what? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Name of this section is [:"red"] "Things we don't talk about..." [/] </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> People in church are also hurt and abuse by those in leadership positions... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Yes they are and here at Club Adventist we have talked about that quite a bit. Talebearers like to focus on other people's sins but as soon as someone suggests that they ought not be talebearing they try to justify their actions. Well... maybe the people they are gossipping about justify their actions too. If I am going to repeat something I heard I ask myself the following questions in this order. 1. Will any good come of me repeating it? (if yes I continue) 2. Will any bad that comes of it be outweighed by the good? (if yes I continue) 3. Is it ok with me if the subject of the "story" knows I am repeating it? (if yes I continue) 4. Do I know for sure the story is true (if yes I repeat it) [:"blue"]He that goeth about as a tale-bearer revealeth secrets; But he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth a matter. (Prob 11:13) He that goeth about as a tale-bearer revealeth secrets; Therefore company not with him that openeth wide his lips. (ibid 20:19) The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly. (ibid 18:8) Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth. (ibid 26:20) [/] Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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