On Coming Out of the Closet

[Gregory Matthews]

The Seventh-day Adventist Church is not immune from the issues that are faced by our society at large.  SDA clergy and members have family who have come out of the closet, so to speak.  They have sons and daughters who legally marry people of the same gender.  SDA members transition from one gender to another.  Theological issues associated with such are openly debated within Adventism.

In this thread, I am not going to debate associated theological issues.  Rather, I am coming from a perspective of understanding the human issues that families facing such issues may face.  This also includes the human issues faced by the person who comes out of the closet.

The following article is informative as to the psychological stress that a former SDA pastor underwent who transitioned from being a male to becoming a female.  As you comment on this, I ask that you be respectful of our common humanity that we all share with each other.  In addition, I ask that you remember that God loves every person.  The worst of sinners is loved by God, even if that person remains a sinner.

https://estherloewen.com/writing-blog/2022/3/7/coming-out-of-the-closet-

The above article contains many links to in-depth information on various aspects of this issue.

One important issue in this is that of the woman married for 16 years to a male SDA pastor who transitions to the female gender and therefore leaves the position of a SDA pastor.  In the following link, she tells why she has decided to remain married to the person who transitions.    Her story is of value.

https://www.facebook.com/paige.loewen.1/posts/10159322960280690

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

In one word, I am suggesting compassion for people.

[RonCorson]

I don't think compassion is deep enough to cover something that has become a societal phenomenon. Not that long ago gender dysphoria was considered a mental disorder. Then for some reason it became acceptable and to some extent even desirable. Instead of treating the gender dysphoria the leftist psychological segment began to treat it by what they called gender affirmation. The catch being the gender that was affirmed was the one that was not real. As this trend grows it is hard not to compare it to the psychological craze that was popular when I was in College some 40 years ago. That was the multiple personality disorder and then Satanic ritual abuse (SRA) See https://www.garygreenbergonline.com/w/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Psychiatric_Times_-_When_Psychiatry_Battled_the_Devil_-_2013-12-06.pdf

As my psychology professor put it novel experiences and diagnosis are exciting for the profession and the patients are actually encouraged by the psychologist to continue and grow the stories. So now as this popular denial or reality continues we find that there are people such as the recent SCOTUS Nominee who cannot define what a woman is. Or just this week the abortion activist that thinks a woman is someone that identifies as a woman and that men can get pregnant and have an abortion!  As the above article states: "Clinically speaking, my distress is known and treated as “gender dysphoria” a marked incongruence between a person’s experienced or expressed gender and the one they were assigned at birth" In reality it is extremely rare for anyone to be assigned a gender. Doctors at birth have some really powerful physiological characteristics that identify a person's sex at birth. It is not an assignment of gender it is a recognition of reality. On certain Endocrinopathies (now expanded and called intersex) such as Turner Syndrome, hermaphrodite, extremely rare and with genetic testing doctors are not guessing at what to assign a baby in 99% of cases. 

So the important question is why the great increase of these feelings of "trans" Abigail Shrier has a good book of interviews, none of it is her opinions she is a reporter writing on a subject.  You see lots of articles decrying her book, such as this: "Controversy erupted here on Science-Based Medicine with a recent publication of a review of Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters by Abigail Shrier. As a family physician who provides affirmative care to transgender adults and youth, I’d like to offer my perspective on the topic.

In brief, Shrier’s book is a fear-filled screed, full of misinformation, biological and medical inaccuracies, logical fallacies, and propaganda. In it, she argues that young cisgender women are “seduced” into believing that they’re transgender by a predatory Internet and social environment."

I put the first two sentences here because the author identifies himself as one of those who is practices the so called predatory actions as affirmative care but he seems to not realize it. If one was really being objective and with statistics of over half of trans people reverting to their original sex gender affirmation is pushing for something rather than seeking the best for the patient.

Then there is the new practice of puberty blockers. Something medically unknown it is experimental therapy but already endorsed by much of the leftist movement. Further there are what seem very much like grooming by certain teachers in our public schools. As I recently learned here in Seattle there is a school that: "Seattle high school claims that 80 percent of its students identify as LGBTQ+, non-binary, or transgender" https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/16/seattle-high-school-claims-that-80-percent-of-its-students-identify-as-lgbtq-non-binary-or-transgender/ 

You really have to wonder why such a claim is made. The point is this is far more complex then the feelings of someone with gender dysphoria.

[GHansen]

On 5/19/2022 at 4:53 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

Theological issues associated with such are openly debated within Adventism.

It's unclear to me what theological issues are associated with alphabet sexuality. People on either side of the question freely admit that homosexual practices in Scripture were primarily associated with the worship of heathen gods. There is a great effort on the part the pro gay partisans to distinguish committed homosexual relationships from the heathen worship of Scripture, i.e., sanctified homosexuality. Contrarily, there is the Levitical prohibition against a man with another man as with a woman, in any context, not just heathen worship. There are young gay men who are committed to virginity until they find another gay partner to marry. Then there are outright liars who will say anything to further the gay agenda.

Theological issues concern  things of God such as the doctrine of the trinity, the nature of Christ, redemption in Christ, the Second Advent. Sodomy, oral copulation, frottage, masturbation are not theological issues. Among the lessons passed down from Eden was Adam and Eve, man and woman. Alternatives to the perfection of Eden were sin, disobedience to God, unless clearly mandated by Scripture, e.g., change in diet. It's really quite simple. "Theological" issues often are not.  

[I agree that it is unclear to you--Gregory Matthews.]

[GHansen]

On 5/19/2022 at 8:16 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

In one word, I am suggesting compassion for people.

Anything short of affirmation is not compassionate in the minds of many.

[I have never suggested affirmation.  One can have compassion without affirmation--Gregory Matthews.]

[GHansen]

10 hours ago, GHansen said:

Anything short of affirmation is not compassionate in the minds of many.

[I have never suggested affirmation.  One can have compassion without affirmation--Gregory Matthews.]

 

13 hours ago, GHansen said:

[I agree that it is unclear to you--Gregory Matthews.]

If someone can explain how homosexuality is a theological issue, I'd be happy to consider it. There are people who want to make it a theological issue by causing confusion over what unrepentant sinners can get away with and still be saved. I'm not among that group. Adam and Eve in the Garden is a fact of history more than theology.

Having worked among the gay community for several years, most of them wanted affirmation, not compassion. 

[Theophilus]

On 5/19/2022 at 10:16 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

In one word, I am suggesting compassion for people.

And I agree 1000 percent.

BUT

Aside from from my difficulty wrapping my head around this situation, which is my difficulty, because it takes me a bit to understand where everyone is coming from, I have a problem with Esther changing God to a she, which the author does over and over. The Holy spirit is also a she. 

I don't think you should change  everything to your own format, just cuz. Jesus calls God "Father",  not mother, and i don't know that the Holy Spirit was referred to as anything but neutral. If we assign "she" to both, we are trying to pad our argument, and overstepping . 

That soured me.  a bit of haughtiness in that testimony.. Had she  been speaking to me here, I would've left. 

 

[RonCorson]

Even Progressives like Bill Maher have noticed! 

 

[GHansen]

GLAAD, the gay apologetics group, arrived in Los Angeles in 1988. In 1990, they initiated Project 21. The purpose of Project 21:

"GLAAD begins Project 21 in an effort to ensure that fair, accurate, and unbiased information regarding the nature and diversity of sexual orientation is presented to America's youth during public school."

In 1993, GLAAD received an award for a billboard they created around California depicting a lesbian couple including one pregnant partner.