ReturntoDar Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I am surprised that any discussion concerning the Son of God is instantly seen as a Trinity issue. As I understand the typical take on the trinity (and I'm no expert on this subject) they believe that at some point, Christ came into existence. This seems to be the conclusion for "begotten" and "brought forth". Ellen White is very clear that Christ is eternal, no beginning, no end. And yet, He IS God's Son, He WAS begotten and brought forth. He is eternal. Immensed damage has been done, by the pioneers, since Ellen Whites death and by the modern SDA Church in attempting to define, analyze, figure out how this apparent contradiction works! This is beyond human reasoning. The Trinity folks are tragically mistaken in their position that at "some point" Christ came into existence. Ellen White is clear on this: there was never a time when the Father and the Son were not in close connection" (words to the effect). In other words: Christ is eternal, period, done, no beginning, no end. Again, yet, He is begotten, He was brought forth. The official position of the Church is in the ditch on the other side of the road from the non-trinity. They are BOTH wrong to even ATTEMPT to figure out how this works. The secret things belong to God. Attempts to reason the unreasonable when it comes to God (the Father of Christ) will always lead to error. The fact that the bible, and Ellen White are abundantly clear that Jesus is the Son of God cannot be disputed. Yet it is! How do modern SDA resolve this? They say (and I'm not kidding, they literally say) that the three members of the God Head are "role playing", they are "pretending", they are "actors on a stange". The end result: the bible is NOT telling the truth on this issue, it too is "pretending". Do you see how dangerous this is? This is spiritualism! You cannot explain in any kind of human logic how it is possible that Christ was begotten AND eternal. But here's the thing, you better believe it! Because the bible and Ellen White are very clear on this. "God is the Father of Christ. Christ is the Son of God". You can believe the prophet, or not, that is an individual choice. As for me and my house, I take the bible, and Ellen White, "just as it reads". I don't have to explain it, but it is salvation issue as to how you believe it. This is no minor issue. It is NOT a trinity issue, it is absolutely a fundamental issue of the gospel. The Son asked His Father's permission to come and die for man, THREE TIMES! God (the Father of Christ) had to consider the matter carefully before granting permission. Ellen White saw this in vision. She saw the anguish on the face of Jesus, and finally, the peace that His desire, to die for my sins, was authorized by His Father. I am sad this issue has become so controversial. I truly believe this is the OMEGA deception. It is not going away, it WILL be resolved. It is highly likely that on THIS issue the Church will in due time, "appear as about to fall". This. Is. Dead. Serious. And we almost instantly reject it as "anti-trinity" speak. It is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Greetings ReturntoDar, 22 hours ago, ReturntoDar said: Do you see how dangerous this is? This is spiritualism! You cannot explain in any kind of human logic how it is possible that Christ was begotten AND eternal. But here's the thing, you better believe it! Because the bible and Ellen White are very clear on this. I believe that Jesus was begotten when God the Father was the father and Mary was the mother in the conception / birth process. I believe that Jesus did not exist before this. I will leave your irrational discussion and problems to other forum members, but suggest that the obvious contradictions should awaken you to the conclusion that some of your claims are wrong. The maxim of Vincent de Leyrins, more boastful than true, ‘the Church, when it employs new terms, never says anything new’, influenced the entire history of Christianity; philosophers and submissive believers were equally satisfied with it. 23 hours ago, ReturntoDar said: The secret things belong to God. " … the religious sentiment … is not in the least alarmed at contradictions; on the contrary, there are times when it might be said that it seeks and delights in them. They seem to strengthen the impression of mystery, an attitude which belongs to every object of adoration." Albert Reville Kind regards Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturntoDar Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 God is the Father of Christ. Christ is the Son of God. This is not complicated. Jesus was brought forth before anything was created. The bible says so. For nothing was created that was created without Him. John 1:1-5 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 Greetings again ReturntoDar, 10 hours ago, ReturntoDar said: John 1:1-5 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. Yes, The Word John 1:1 and the wise woman Wisdom Proverbs 8 pre-existed the Creation. Jesus on the other hand was born about 2000 years ago and did not pre-exist Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35, John 1:14. I consider that you would be more interested in trying to convert your Trinitarian SDAs to your Arian or similar position. I am not really interested in having a thorough discussion on the Trinity or views similar to the Arian position. I believe that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is a human, the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. He grew in wisdom Luke 2:40,52 and did not have two minds. Kind regards Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturntoDar Posted November 3, 2022 Author Share Posted November 3, 2022 "Another dangerous error is the doctrine that denies the deity of Christ, claiming that He had no existence before His advent to this world. This theory is received with favor by a large class who profess to believe the Bible; yet it directly contradicts the plainest statements of our Saviour concerning His relationship with the Father, His divine character, and His pre-existence. It cannot be entertained without the most unwarranted wresting of the Scriptures. It not only lowers man's conceptions of the work of redemption, but undermines faith in the Bible as a revelation from God." The Great Controversy, 1911. PDF, pg. 548 phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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