The state of the Pharisees

October 10, 2006

And Jesus was also very clear when He said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God......You must be born again.....For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting live....He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already..." Jn 3:3,7,16,18 NKJ.

October 10, 2006

He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed.

Let me point out that the Gospel of our Lord Jesus is contained in the Bible. His words we are to obey are in the Gospels - best concentrated in the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5-7.

It is you, Robert, who claim you do not need to obey Jesus, because you don't need works, rather you are justified by your faith.

This is what you say again and again.

Then when Jesus comes, who will be shut out from His presence?

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." [KJV-Bible: Matthew 7:2]

God has been Merciful to me, Oh to my joy how I pray I will always be as merciful as I can be to His other creations, who, after all, simply suffer from the circumstances I and other Christians have foisted upon them in our selfish ignorance of God's Love, by our selfish refusal to reflect His Mercy and obey the teachings of Christ.

But as for me, the ignorance of that old man was destroyed, put to death, crucified with Jesus when I was born again into His Kingdom where love reigns and where His Promises are True - unimpeachable by the jealousy and wicked designs of men.

I reflect His Mercy, because only His Mercy saves me.

Jesus said: "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, (they) are spirit, and (they) are life." [KJV-Bible: John 6:63]

The Words of God in the Bible are Spiritual. As the Apostle Paul warned again and again, if we read His Word "carnally", or by the flesh, no Spritual profit will we find. Rather, like the Pharisees, we will fall into God's snare for the wicked.

We will end up seeking death for others in the Bible, exalting ourselves rather than serving others, teaching terror of death rather than the life God has promised all.

Here it is again, the very Soul of the Bible, the reason the Messiah came to us, the unchangeable Promises of God that will destroy the earth by Fire when He comes:

"Verily thou (art) a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

"They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together (that are) makers of idols.

"(But) Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I (am) the LORD; and (there is) none else.

"I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

"Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye (that are) escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god (that) cannot save.

"Tell ye, and bring (them) near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? (who) hath told it from that time? (have) not I the LORD? and (there is) no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; (there is) none beside me.

"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I (am) God, and (there is) none else.

"I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth (in) righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

"Surely, shall (one) say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: (even) to him shall (men) come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

"In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory." [KJV-Bible: Isaiah 45:15-25]

This is my God and your God, the God whose Mercy endureth forever.

Hang onto Him and support Him, don't dwell on the jealousy and frustration of his servants. They saved you by spreading the Gospel, now save His servants from their unbelief in His Love! As Paul wrote:

"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

"Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable (are) his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

"For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

"Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

"For of him, and through him, and to him, (are) all things: to whom (be) glory for ever. Amen." [KJV-Bible: Romans 11:29-36]

Nothing could be clearer, Spritually or carnally interpreted.. Praise ye the Lord! :-)

Casey

October 10, 2006

The Bible does not contradict itself. If all verses are read in the context in which they are written with a sound understanding of the conditions which existed, and if we sincerely seek God's help in granting us understanding, we will understand.

I am not going to enter more verses to the many already quoted. But, only ask one simple question. It has been asked before; but for reinforcement.

Let’s reduce this discussion to a basic common concept. Why would anyone want to live their eternal life in a place filled with sin and sinners? That would not be Heaven but just an extension of the life we are living here on this old ball of mud.

There is One Lord, One God, One Creator and we must love and honor him with our minds, bodies, time, talents and resources. On earth as in Heaven.

October 10, 2006

If I preach a God who will break His own Law, break His own Promise, and who will ignore the Blood of Christ whom He Himself sent in order that all the earth might be saved...How many people will believe me?

God has kept His promise in Jesus Christ, but many reject His grace because they see themselves as "good" people. They don't need His righteousness.

October 11, 2006

It is you, Robert, who claim you do not need to obey Jesus, because you don't need works, rather you are justified by your faith.

Why even bring up this point if all will be saved anyway? It really doesn't matter what I believe or what anyone believes, because according to you all men will be saved.

October 11, 2006

The Bible does not contradict itself. If all verses are read in the context in which they are written with a sound understanding of the conditions which existed, and if we sincerely seek God's help in granting us understanding, we will understand.

October 11, 2006

Why even bring up this point if all will be saved anyway? It really doesn't matter what I believe or what anyone believes, because according to you all men will be saved.

If we do not seek the God of Love in Truth, but only as a tool for our own salvation, it doesn't matter what we believe until Jesus comes...

But at that time if we have allowed ourselves to be misled into self-righteous casting out and scattering sheep, we will under go Spiritual hell-fire, the refining fire that will sanctify us when there is no more doubt...

Spiritually, if we've died our first death by being born again once in His love, but were misled from the Truth by hirelings, we will die the second death as we are born a second time before His Truth, in the presence of the Lamb.

By believing God now we will aviod the second death.

If we love God as I do now, and we want more than anything in the world for the suffering we are causing to end, if we want to be with Him, and have all with Him as He has intended from the beginning, then it matters very much because zeal for God is our all-consuming reason for existing.

My Kingdom of God within me is populated in peace. God, Jesus, and I reside there, along with every creature I see.

Don't get me started... I could go on and on relating the beauty of that Heaven. Still, I await the New Earth with barely containable anticipation.

I want to meet Ellen White. :-)

Casey

October 11, 2006

Casey,

I don't think you understand the gospel, you are very confused.

yongttay

October 11, 2006

Casey, I don't think you understand the gospel, you are very confused.

Thanks for your input, yongttay. God bless you.

Casey

October 11, 2006

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

And Jesus was also very clear when He said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God......You must be born again.....For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting live....He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already..." Jn 3:3,7,16,18 NKJ.

If I preach a God who will break His own Law, break His own Promise, and who will ignore the Blood of Christ whom He Himself sent in order that all the earth might be saved...

How many people will believe me?

I for one, do not believe this demonic doctrine that God would pollute His new creation with saints & sinners & repeat the cycle of tragedy & suffering all over again. Yes, [color:red]"God our Savior, ...desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth," 1 Tim 2:4 NKJ, and that He is "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance," 2 Pe 3:9 NKJ, but the Bible is absolutely plain that Satan & all his sympathizers will be destroyed.

"Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, God and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are.....This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." Rev 20:7-10, 14,15 NKJ.

What could be plainer & clearer than this?

Quote:

Especially since I myself am a sinner and a hypocrite as Jesus even called the disciples time and time again, as Paul himself claimed to be again and again?

Friend, if you are still willfully sinning and willfully hypocritical, then as Jesus said, [color:red]"You must be born again."

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How many people have thusly been condemned by the self-centered teachings of the servants of God?

The doctrine of the destruction of the wicked is not a man-made doctrine, it is plainly taught in Scripture.

Quote:

"I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

I can't believe you can quote a verse like this and still think that unrepentant sinners can abide in the light of God's glory!!! It plainly & clearly says that those who do not believe will abide in darkness!!!

Quote:

"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." [KJV-Bible: John 12:46-47]

Yes, [color:red]"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." Jn 3:17-19 NKJ.

Gerry

October 11, 2006

Quote:

Saints & rebels changed?

Please answer my question... are you claiming to be a Saint at the same time you are accusing God of intending to kill people who believe any God must be a loving God and thus reject your doctrine?

Casey

If by saint you mean in the Roman Catholic sense, then, NOOOOOOOOO, I am not. But in the Biblical sense, yes, I am. I have believed and put my trust in God, and He has promised that He would sanctify me & make me holy.

Do I believe that God would kill you because you believe a false doctrine? I am not the Judge; I can't read your heart. Not every believer in Christ has the full light of truth. All of us hold on to some error in one form or another. If God consigned everyone who unknowingly is holding on to error, then heaven would be a pretty sparsely populated place.

Gerry

October 11, 2006

Quote:

I for one, do not believe this demonic doctrine that God would pollute His new creation with saints & sinners & repeat the cycle of tragedy & suffering all over again.

I'm not sure what doctrine you are talking about. I'm certainly not talking about a new creation with saints and sinners repeating history.

God and Jesus both say all sinners will repent, every knee will bow, every tongue shall swear love for God. It's called "the Plan of Salvation". I'm talking about a new creation where only perfect saints exist because that evil history will always be there proving the failure of mankind's efforts to live without God amongst us.

Satan's goal has always been to cast doubt on God's Character and convince us that God is too weak, too much of a hypocrite, to keep His Promise.

Satan loves to tell sinners they are lost, that God is too weak to save them, to bring them to repentence.

Satan has mischaracterized Jesus through the evil "I'm better than you are" doctrine of most churches today.

Yet our ancestors crucified Jesus, so no sinner since has been given the opportunity to believe in Jesus Christ in the Flesh as He came to save...

Because none have seen Him.

All they've seen is people like you and me, who have taught the doctrine of Satan claiming God is not powerful enough to bring all of mankind to repentence, and teach all of mankind righteousness.

Such a doctrine not only not Jesus Christ in the Flesh that will give a sinner a chance to make a choice for salvation, it is so destructive that we ourselves become wicked, casting out others and condemning them on the authority of Satan.

God never gave us the authority to condemn anyone.

Rather God sent us to love and serve and minister to those sinners regardless of what they do or what persecution we suffer as a result.

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Yes, "God our Savior, ...desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth," 1 Tim 2:4 NKJ, and that He is "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance," 2 Pe 3:9 NKJ, but the Bible is absolutely plain that Satan & all his sympathizers will be destroyed.

Indeed they will be destroyed, their old man Spiritually destroyed, but reborn by the Holy Spirit into God's Love.

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Especially since I myself am a sinner and a hypocrite as Jesus even called the disciples time and time again, as Paul himself claimed to be again and again?

Friend, if you are still willfully sinning and willfully hypocritical, then as Jesus said, [color:red]"You must be born again."

Perhaps you could clarify for me here exactly what an "unwillful sin is". Are you really questioning the Holy Spirit within me, claiming I'm not born again?

Why?

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"I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

I can't believe you can quote a verse like this and still think that unrepentant sinners can abide in the light of God's glory!!! It plainly & clearly says that those who do not believe will abide in darkness!!!

Are we Jesus Christ, Jerry? Can we heal people, cast out devils, walk on water, raise the dead?

Are we that Light God sent into the world? If not, then we must recognize that it was our ancestors who extinguished that Light, so it is not available anymore to save sinners.

That Light in the Flesh is what is promised, not a light taught by errant people like you and me.

You are not that Light. I am not that Light. We cannot save sinners, all we can do is tell them about Christ in the hope that they will believe in God's salvation - even though we ourselves are sinners.

If a sinner is turned off of Christ because of our witness of Him, because we tell them their mother and father will be literally burned up by God, or because they don't happen to like our voice, our looks, or whatever...

That is sinner is not lost. We are not God. We are supposed to be teaching about God's promise to save all sinners in the end, to heal and bind them up, to save all from the coming destruction of the earth brought on by saints and sinners alike.

We are supposed to be preparing the world for the Second Coming of Christ by making all aware of God's Love and Mercy - assuring them of His very existence because they can see some of His Love in us.

We are not supposed to be contradicting God by judging sinners.

Again, the Promise of God is that all the earth will be saved by Him and will Glory in Him.

Satanic doctrines are any that contradict that Promise, lulling God's saints into a state where they preach death to others, and seek justification for the death of others in order to relieve them of carrying out the Great Commission of Jesus Christ.

Serve, Witness, Love - to the death as Jesus commanded.

Casey

October 11, 2006

If by saint you mean in the Roman Catholic sense, then, NOOOOOOOOO, I am not. But in the Biblical sense, yes, I am.

What is Jesus Christ's Biblical definition of a saint?

It seems to me that if I don't live up to that definition, I have no business calling myself a saint.

I might end up calling other creations of God "sinners".

Casey

October 11, 2006

Indeed they will be destroyed, their old man Spiritually destroyed, but reborn by the Holy Spirit into God's Love.

Where do you get this non-sense? It doesn’t come from the Bible, therefore what you are teaching is the doctrine of devils. It goes something like this: "Don't sweat it people...don't worry about believing because God's going to MAKE you believe later."

Paul doesn't give this satanic view. Here's what Paul says:

Heb 3:12 Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end; 15 while it is said, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked Me.”

Robert

October 11, 2006

Originally Posted By: CaseyButler

Indeed they will be destroyed, their old man Spiritually destroyed, but reborn by the Holy Spirit into God's Love.

Where do you get this non-sense? It doesn’t come from the Bible, therefore what you are teaching is the doctrine of devils. It goes something like this: "Don't sweat it people...don't worry about believing because God's going to MAKE you believe later."

Paul doesn't give this satanic view.

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures...

Paul wrote:

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with (him), that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." [KJV-Bible: Romans 6:6]

This is a Spiritual crucifixion, not a carnal one.

"That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;" [KJV-Bible: Ephesians 4:22]

"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;" [KJV-Bible: Colossians 3:9]

Paul understood Spiritual death, destruction, and desolation.

God is Spirit. God is a God of the Living.

Lets examine Paul's message from Hebrews that you posted:

"Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God."

Are you not the one telling me that God's Promise to all is really only to you and those you approve of, and not to those whom you consider "sinners" worthy of a literal death by Fire?

That really is Satanic doctrine, isn't it. Do you see how mankind has been misled - misled itself really - as Mrs. White said?

We must return to God.

"But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin."

Have you encouraged many lately with this doctrine of a God that will kill His creations, Robert? You certainly aren't encouraging me. I'm reminded of the Pharisees who called Jesus of Satan.

But how can Satan point out Satan's deceptions, His mischaracterization and lies about God?

How could Satan teach love for God and all of His Creation?

It would be impossible.

Yet I am here to encourage you, and all others in our church.

"14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end; 15 while it is said, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked Me.”"

I say it to you as well. Please do not harden your heart against God's Will to save that 100th sheep, to save the world.

How can we be true partakers of Christ if we do not believe in His very purpose in laying down His Life, in God's Promise?

To save all the world?

To believe otherwise makes us partakers of Satan.

You are using this verse to imply that a hard-hearted person loves all of God's creations, and supports His Will to save all and His Son's Will to save all?

Soften your heart, look around you at what the world situation is today.

May God bless you and shower His love upon you, Robert, you, and all the others in our church have who sacrificed so much for the sinners whom God intends to bring to repentence in these last days.

From Jesus to all of you:

"For the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a man (that is) an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

"And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

"And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

"And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

"Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

"And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

"They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, (that) shall ye receive.

"So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them (their) hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

"And when they came that (were hired) about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

"But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

"And when they had received (it), they murmured against the goodman of the house,

"Saying, These last have wrought (but) one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

"But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

"Take (that) thine (is), and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

"Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

"So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen." [KJV-Bible: Matthew 20:1-16]

Jesus is coming soon... Prepare to be welcomed into everlasting habitations.

Casey

October 11, 2006

Originally Posted By: CaseyButler

Indeed they will be destroyed, their old man Spiritually destroyed, but reborn by the Holy Spirit into God's Love.

Where do you get this non-sense? It doesn’t come from the Bible, therefore what you are teaching is the doctrine of devils. It goes something like this: "Don't sweat it people...don't worry about believing because God's going to MAKE you believe later."

Paul doesn't give this satanic view.

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures...

Paul wrote:

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with (him), that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." [KJV-Bible: Romans 6:6]

This is a Spiritual crucifixion, not a carnal one.

"That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;" [KJV-Bible: Ephesians 4:22]

"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;" [KJV-Bible: Colossians 3:9]

Paul understood Spiritual death, destruction, and desolation.

God is Spirit. God is a God of the Living.

Lets examine Paul's message from Hebrews that you posted:

"Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God."

Are you not the one telling me that God's Promise to all is really only to you and those you approve of, and not to those whom you consider "sinners" worthy of a literal death by Fire?

That really is Satanic doctrine, isn't it. Do you see how mankind has been misled - misled itself really - as Mrs. White said?

We must return to God.

"But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin."

Who have you encouraged many lately with this doctrine of a God that kills, Robert? You certainly aren't encouraging me. I'm reminded of the Pharisees who called Jesus of Satan.