Pastoral Abuse

[Gregory Matthews]

Spectrum has posted an important article that, with my comments you may want to read.  See:

https://spectrummagazine.org/views/2023/abuse-victim-reflects-her-lifework

 

 

[Gustave]

somewhat saddened to read that article - I noted that the predator of the author appeared to be out of the LGBT community. While it's not politically correct these days to talk about such things history can provide some background on clarification. In the below posted documentary you can see the context in which many of the questions are asked, it's a pride festival / gathering. It wasn't until over a 100 million dollars were "on the line" that the Lesbian and Gay alliance kicked out their vocal members who were pushing to lower the age of consent laws. Other documentaries had same sex attracted interviewees comparing the yearning for young-lings to the difference between lamb and mutton or sucking piglet to boar hog. NAMBLA spent a great deal of time and money researching the history of this type of relationship in ancient cultures in an attempt to justify it. Below is the documentary. 

 

I'd say my hats off to the author of the article you posted - this kind of thing needs to be done accross the board and I'd agree with her that this kind of thing is more common in 'top down' organizations than in others. 

[Gregory Matthews]

NOTE:  The various comments about the Spectrum article are of value, even if I did post some.   

 

[Dr. Shane]

I agree the church needs to maintain its focus on preventing child sexual abuse.  I do not know what goes on in other conferences, but in Texas, those in children ministries must pass background checks and be trained in identifying sexual predators.  That has been the policy since I first started volunteering in children's ministry almost 20 years ago.  If other conferences are not doing that, they need to start.  It is way past time.

I was disappointed by the lack of  journalistic integrity in the article.  The author cites a study that documents sexual abuse by cults as a source to support her assertion that "there is a higher incidence of child sexual abuse amongst ultra conservative pastors".  When I think of an ultra conservative pastor, someone like Doug Bachelor, comes to mind.  I certainly am not a big Amazing Facts fan but I would not classify them as a cult nor suggest that Doug Bachelor, and others like him, are more prone to sexually abuse children.  

Then she goes on to say "A helpful example of this connection between conservative theology and sexual harassment comes from the August 15, 2022, conviction of Harold Dien..."  OK.  I had to pause there.  I hold a Masters of Science and a Doctor of Philosophy.  Both are research degrees.  When doing research, credibility is everything.  What the author is doing here is telling stories.  Stories are considered anecdotal evidence.  Now, that isn't bad, it just isn't very compelling.  If an author is going to assert that the "Southern California Indonesian Adventist community" is comparable to a cult, I would hope to see some empirical data to support such a claim and not a simple story of one pastor gone bad.

What really boggles my mind is that this author has worked in academia and holds a PhD in psychology.  She knows better.  I don't know if she is just overcome with emotion or purposely compromising academic standards in order to push an agenda she feels is worthy (and I agree with her on that).  But I am not one that believes the ends justifies the means.  Let's use good science to support our agenda and not be so sloppy.  She claims that as an educator she knows of hundreds of cases.  Did she document them?  Can she cite them.  The University of Montemorelos would toss someone out on their ear that made such a claim without proper documentation.  And I suspect that she would have done the same to one of her students had they made such a claim.  She uses the word "hundreds".  That means in her personal experience (which is very limited) there are at least 200 cases of children being sexually assaulted by pastors, teachers and coaches! That means on average, she personally knew of more than five children each year being sexually assaulted by pastors, teachers and coaches while she was teaching.  Five per year.  I suspect she would also say they were assaulted by ultra conservative pastors and teachers too.

Sexual abuse, and indeed all childhood trauma, is a major problem in the world and the church is not exempt from it.  When it does happen, the quicker a person can get therapy the better.  I was sexually abused as a child.  The perpetrator was caught in the act and I received therapy right away.  It was a matter related to our church but of all of us children that were sexually abused, not one of us were abused by a pastor, teacher or coach.  In fact, the member that likely started it was not even an Adventist but attended church with some of his family members that were baptized.  So, I am in entire agreement with the author about the church needing to be proactive.  I would need to see some empirical evidence to convince me that ultra conservatives are more prone to abuse children than atheists, agnostics, moderates or liberals.  I find it hard to believe that Satan is only using the ultra conservatives to abuse children sexually. 

For transparency sake, let me clarify that I consider myself theologically to be a moderate (neither conservative nor liberal) and there are many theological issues that I have not cemented a belief about.

 

 

[B/W Photodude]

This will make the Trump haters angry, but it is easy to post many many links to stories about how adult child sex is being actively promoted in liberal circles. Many articles have been posted here about getting information about supposed Trump illegal acts, but why hasn't the "little black book" of Ghislaine Maxwell ever been published. Why hasn't Biden's suspicious activity around children ever been looked at. (One family member of Biden reports that she used to have to carefully wait until Biden had gone to bed before she could shower. Many videos of Biden inappropriately touching young girls are all over the internet.)

So, the smear campaign against "conservative Christians" continues. At some point in the past I post a book review of a book entitled "Sexual Abuse in Nine North American Cultures" which included Seventh-day Adventists. Unfortunately, the entire book read like the repressed memory movement and just was not believable.

[Gustave]

10 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

This will make the Trump haters angry, but it is easy to post many many links to stories about how adult child sex is being actively promoted in liberal circles. Many articles have been posted here about getting information about supposed Trump illegal acts, but why hasn't the "little black book" of Ghislaine Maxwell ever been published. Why hasn't Biden's suspicious activity around children ever been looked at. (One family member of Biden reports that she used to have to carefully wait until Biden had gone to bed before she could shower. Many videos of Biden inappropriately touching young girls are all over the internet.)

So, the smear campaign against "conservative Christians" continues. At some point in the past I post a book review of a book entitled "Sexual Abuse in Nine North American Cultures" which included Seventh-day Adventists. Unfortunately, the entire book read like the repressed memory movement and just was not believable.

What you say is true and why I posted that old documentary. 

Toddler / drag queen story hour. 

Not all that long ago we had a group of folks in Washington who "self-identified" as various animals - these "alternative lifestyles" (alphabet) people were having sex with animals from large breed dogs to horses & documenting what they called wholesome goodness by making videos and distributing them.

Well, some sort of accident happened during one of these "sessions" and some men dropped off an injured man at a hospital who soon died from his severe injuries. The police got the License plate from the hospital security video system and that turned into a fairly long investigation into the animal sex farm - an investigation that revealed hundreds of hours of video's had been made pertaining to this kind of activity - these were people of means, education, status in the community. 

The LGBT Newspaper in Seattle had an advice column that was a play on "Dear Abby" - the advice column was called "Hey Faggot" where folks would write in seeking advice pertaining to their lifestyle and community. Well, there was an article about a young man who lived with another older man and after the older man went to work the older man's big dog would bugger the young man - the young man felt guilty about this as he believed he was "cheating" on his partner and wanted to know what he should do about it as he had become addicted to the dog - the advice given in the column was honesty is the best policy and perhaps the older man knowing more about it might spice up their sex lives! 

The reason I laid all this out here was BOTH incidents (the farm AND the advice column) happened when bestiality was LEGAL in Washington State. As the Legislature was in the process of making bestiality illegal alphabet people were campaigning about why this was a bad thing - after-all some people identify as / with animals. Ultimately the law was passed prohibiting sex with animals however...........

the point to take home here is that if a human can identify as another species, as a gender other than what he/she was born as WHAT is to prevent a person from self-identifying as a much younger age? Think about this for a minute in the context of that Chickenhawk video I posted earlier - Kids need to be protected from all this kind of stuff while they are kids and this approach is the opposite of what I'm seeing the Democrat party adopt. 

 

[Dr. Shane]

54 minutes ago, Gustave said:

Not all that long ago we had a group of folks in Washington who "self-identified" as various animals - these "alternative lifestyles" (alphabet) people were having sex with animals from large breed dogs to horses & documenting what they called wholesome goodness by making videos and distributing them.

Mixing civil politics into a religious discussion can do more harm than good.  In some situations, it is difficult to avoid, but in most it isn't hard to avoid it and is beneficial to keep the two areas separate.  The topic in this thread was focused on the Seventh-day Adventist church policy in regard to sexual abuse of minors.  My criticism of the article was that it was poorly cited and the anecdotal evidence was less than convincing to make the case that was trying to be made.  Talking about what the LGBTQ+ or NAMBLA is doing muddies the water in the discussion.  Focusing on church policy and attitudes in the church keeps the focus clearly on the issue being discussed.

I will say that the claims being made in regard to the LGBTQ+ community in this thread are also made without citations or empirical evidence.  Of course, this is a discussion forum and the standard is much less than a publication like the one linked to in the original post. Nonetheless, if want desire to provide good information regarding controversial subjects, providing citations and empirical evidence is helpful in a forum like this.  Citations are not as helpful when we say things that are common knowledge with little controversy.  However the more controversial a statement is, the greater need there is to provide citations and empirical data. 

Finally, I will say, politically, I do not like many politicians.  I was accused of being an "Obama hater" and being a "Trump hater".  I am not too much of a fan of the current president but neither do I see many good alternatives.  I believe we are nearing the soon return of our Lord and my faith is far more important to me than civil politics.  As a Christian, we are to love people and show them the love of Christ.  Calling them names like "alphabet people" is not going to draw them into a loving relationship with the Lord and Savior.  It is far better to meet them where they are at.  Accept them how they are.  Model Christian behavior for them and let the Holy Spirit draw them to the lovely Savior. 

[Gustave]

7 hours ago, Dr. Shane said:

Mixing civil politics into a religious discussion can do more harm than good.  In some situations, it is difficult to avoid, but in most it isn't hard to avoid it and is beneficial to keep the two areas separate.  The topic in this thread was focused on the Seventh-day Adventist church policy in regard to sexual abuse of minors.  My criticism of the article was that it was poorly cited and the anecdotal evidence was less than convincing to make the case that was trying to be made.  Talking about what the LGBTQ+ or NAMBLA is doing muddies the water in the discussion.  Focusing on church policy and attitudes in the church keeps the focus clearly on the issue being discussed.

I will say that the claims being made in regard to the LGBTQ+ community in this thread are also made without citations or empirical evidence.  Of course, this is a discussion forum and the standard is much less than a publication like the one linked to in the original post. Nonetheless, if want desire to provide good information regarding controversial subjects, providing citations and empirical evidence is helpful in a forum like this.  Citations are not as helpful when we say things that are common knowledge with little controversy.  However the more controversial a statement is, the greater need there is to provide citations and empirical data. 

Finally, I will say, politically, I do not like many politicians.  I was accused of being an "Obama hater" and being a "Trump hater".  I am not too much of a fan of the current president but neither do I see many good alternatives.  I believe we are nearing the soon return of our Lord and my faith is far more important to me than civil politics.  As a Christian, we are to love people and show them the love of Christ.  Calling them names like "alphabet people" is not going to draw them into a loving relationship with the Lord and Savior.  It is far better to meet them where they are at.  Accept them how they are.  Model Christian behavior for them and let the Holy Spirit draw them to the lovely Savior. 

Citations or empirical evidence. 

 

The documentary Chickenhawk dovetails with the above song which pretty much summarizes what happened to the author of the article in the O.P.  I'm reasonably certain that Donnald Trump wasn't the San Francisco gay men's choir's President. 

I must have missed where someone was bashing you for your views on Trump? All I think conservatives are saying is that the visible push to sexualize Children is coming out of the Liberal camp. If we want to protect kids we need to start by not giving them ideas they wouldn't think of for years had they not been 'taught' about those things. 

A Democrat back in JFK's day would have been up in arms, literally, had a group of folks been advocating elementary aged kids be given a front row seat at a drag show, this isn't the reaction we're seeing today is what I'm saying. We are seeing something else.