bonnie1962 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 U.S. Supreme Court strikes down university race-conscious admissions policies ANDREW CHUNG June 29, 2023 at 9:21 AM By Andrew Chung (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday struck down race-conscious student admissions programs currently used at Harvard University and the University of North Carolina in a sharp setback to affirmative action policies often used increase the number of Black, Hispanic and other underrepresented minority groups on campuses. The justices ruled in favor of a group called Students for Fair Admissions, founded by anti-affirmative action activist Edward Blum, in its appeal of lower court rulings upholding programs used at the two prestigious schools to foster a diverse student population. The affirmative action cases represented the latest major rulings powered by the Supreme Court's conservative majority. The court in June 2022 overturned the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that had legalized abortion nationwide and widened gun rights in a pair of landmark rulings. Many institutions of higher education, corporations and military leaders have long backed affirmative action on campuses not simply to remedy racial inequity and exclusion in American life but to ensure a talent pool that can bring a range of perspectives to the workplace and U.S. armed forces ranks. According to Harvard, around 40% of U.S. colleges and universities consider race in some fashion. Harvard and UNC have said they use race as only one factor in a host of individualized evaluations for admission without quotas - permissible under previous Supreme Court precedents - and that curbing its consideration would cause a significant drop in enrollment of students from under-represented groups. Critics, who have tried to topple these policies for decades, argue these policies are themselves discriminatory. Many U.S. conservatives and Republican elected officials have argued that giving advantages to one race is unconstitutional regardless of the motivation or circumstances. Some have advanced the argument that remedial preferences are no longer needed because America has moved beyond racist policies of the past such as segregation and is becoming increasingly diverse. The dispute presented the Supreme Court's conservative majority an opportunity to overturn its prior rulings allowing race-conscious admissions policies. Blum's group in lawsuits filed in 2014 accused UNC of discriminating against white and Asian American applicants and Harvard of bias against Asian American applicants. Students for Fair Admissions alleged that the adoption by UNC, a public university, of an admissions policy that is not race neutral violates the guarantee to equal protection of the law under the U.S. Constitution's 14th Amendment. The group contended Harvard, a private university violated Title VI of a landmark federal law called the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which bars discrimination based on race, color or national origin under any program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. Lower courts rejected the group's claims, prompting appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court asking the justices to overturn a key precedent holding that colleges could consider race as one factor in the admissions process because of the compelling interest of creating a diverse student body. Affirmative action has withstood Supreme Court scrutiny for decades, most recently in a 2016 ruling involving a white student, backed by Blum, who sued the University of Texas after being rejected for admission. The Supreme Court has shifted rightward since 2016 and now includes three justices who dissented in the University of Texas case and three new appointees by former Republican President Donald Trump. (Reporting by Andrew Chung; Editing by Will Dunham) e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U.S. Supreme Court strikes down university race-conscious admissions policies ANDREW CHUNG June 29, 2023 at 9:21 AM By Andrew Chung (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday struck down race-conscious student admissions programs currently used at Harvard University and the University of North Carolina in a sharp setback to affirmative action policies often used increase the number of Black, Hispanic and other underrepresented minority groups on campuses. The justices ruled in favor of a group called Students for Fair Admissions, founded by anti-affirmative action activist Edward Blum, in its appeal of lower court rulings upholding programs used at the two prestigious schools to foster a diverse student population. The affirmative action cases represented the latest major rulings powered by the Supreme Court's conservative majority. The court in June 2022 overturned the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that had legalized abortion nationwide and widened gun rights in a pair of landmark rulings. Many institutions of higher education, corporations and military leaders have long backed affirmative action on campuses not simply to remedy racial inequity and exclusion in American life but to ensure a talent pool that can bring a range of perspectives to the workplace and U.S. armed forces ranks. According to Harvard, around 40% of U.S. colleges and universities consider race in some fashion. Harvard and UNC have said they use race as only one factor in a host of individualized evaluations for admission without quotas - permissible under previous Supreme Court precedents - and that curbing its consideration would cause a significant drop in enrollment of students from under-represented groups. Critics, who have tried to topple these policies for decades, argue these policies are themselves discriminatory. Many U.S. conservatives and Republican elected officials have argued that giving advantages to one race is unconstitutional regardless of the motivation or circumstances. Some have advanced the argument that remedial preferences are no longer needed because America has moved beyond racist policies of the past such as segregation and is becoming increasingly diverse. The dispute presented the Supreme Court's conservative majority an opportunity to overturn its prior rulings allowing race-conscious admissions policies. Blum's group in lawsuits filed in 2014 accused UNC of discriminating against white and Asian American applicants and Harvard of bias against Asian American applicants. Students for Fair Admissions alleged that the adoption by UNC, a public university, of an admissions policy that is not race neutral violates the guarantee to equal protection of the law under the U.S. Constitution's 14th Amendment. The group contended Harvard, a private university violated Title VI of a landmark federal law called the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which bars discrimination based on race, color or national origin under any program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. Lower courts rejected the group's claims, prompting appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court asking the justices to overturn a key precedent holding that colleges could consider race as one factor in the admissions process because of the compelling interest of creating a diverse student body. Affirmative action has withstood Supreme Court scrutiny for decades, most recently in a 2016 ruling involving a white student, backed by Blum, who sued the University of Texas after being rejected for admission. The Supreme Court has shifted rightward since 2016 and now includes three justices who dissented in the University of Texas case and three new appointees by former Republican President Donald Trump. (Reporting by Andrew Chung; Editing by Will Dunham)
U.S. Supreme Court strikes down university race-conscious admissions policies ANDREW CHUNG June 29, 2023 at 9:21 AM
Rahab Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Just don’t know how this will impact those who are less fortunate. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie1962 Posted June 29, 2023 Author Share Posted June 29, 2023 36 minutes ago, Rahab said: Just don’t know how this will impact those who are less fortunate. What do you mean by less fortunate? Grades, Money, Wealthy Parents, Sexual Orientation, Transgender, Skin Color, Race, Sex?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahab Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Money phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanseng Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 AA benefits people of color, primarily. Obviously, the whole slavery business was and continues to be a terrible blot on America. Degrading people through slavery for ~250 years and then just setting them free was a recipe for disaster. The Israelites were enslaved for a longer period. When they were "set free" they were subject to a strict set of laws in which the death penalty for transgression played a significant roll. Eventually, due to their recalcitrance, the ~ entire group of liberated Israelite. slaves were killed. They were never assimilated. Clarence Thomas, who was admitted to Yale regrets going. Going to Yale because of AA has been a lifetime stigma. He is probably unique in that respect. Entitlement permeates the former slave community, as the current calls for reparations evinces. Interesting that as AA ends, the demand for reparations grows louder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanseng Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie1962 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Rahab said: Money If money or the lack of it means a person will be impacted by doing away with affirmative action can you explain how poor white students go to college without parental help and without affirmative action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanseng Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 I slept in the back of my car for a while, showered in the gym, when I started college. Borrowed money, then drove a wreck of a car for a few years until I paid off my loans. I happened to pass by a university class, informally known as a "bonehead" class. Don't recall a white face in the room. Those students should have never graduated high school; however, diversity types let them advance, figuratively kicking the can down the road to burden the universities. It never ends. Those kind of people will always be incompetent unless they are truly helped by vocational counsellors who can steer them into fields that they will excel in. Want to be a rocket scientist but can't do math? Don't borrow money you will never pay back. Develop a realistic career goal that fits your capabilities. An acquaintance of mine was working as a psych tech. He was approaching 30 years of age. He'd gotten into med school on affirmative action but did something that got him expelled. He then went to an overseas med school but couldn't pass the FGMAT. He might have made a good psychologist or an LCSW, even a good psych nurse. He obviously wasn't going to make it as a physician. By the time I met him, he already had children and a wife. AA can ruin lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie1962 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 Some have decided that the end of affirmative action means the end of success based on merit and hard work. Now the whining is getting louder over the Supreme Court saying "step up and pay your own student loan. There is something drastically missing in this country. I really enjoy history and I recall some very impressive people, black and white achieving outstanding success without affirmative action or money. I am pretty sure no one offered them a safe place to protect their delicate sensibilities. The race baiting , the victimization, and the constant drum beat of white supremacy is grtting really tiresome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanseng Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 1 hour ago, bonnie1962 said: Some have decided that the end of affirmative action means the end of success based on merit and hard work. Whoever thought that one up must have been a beneficiary of AA. AA was about rewarding people based on their skin color, rather than hard work and merit. If you want to understand, in a practical manner, what happens when AA is put into practice, read the story of the Drew/King hospital in the L.A. Times. Long story short: The L.A. Black community was gifted with a hospital after the Watts riots. It was staffed and managed by mostly members of that community. It became one of the most dangerous and corrupt hospitals in America, eventually being shuttered. That's what happens when social engineers get in the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanseng Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 When I say Black community, I am referring specifically to the descendants of American slaves, not recent African immigrants such as Ethiopians and others. Not every slave descendant is unfit for a place in American society. "By their fruits you shall know them." Instead of reparations, the government could just pay the cartels to not ship drugs into the States. A significant portion of reparation money is going to end up in the pockets of the cartels any way. Drug dealers, corner liquor stores, big screen tv retailers and the like, will be the ultimate beneficiaries of "reparations." Since reparations are in the wind, how about a check for those Jews who were turned away from America when they were fleeing Hitler. The Chinese could use some extra money as well. They were shamelessly persecuted in California and deprived of their rights. That money will likely go into the education of their children, the stock market, and real estate, not the corner liquor store and bling. Here's what happened when affirmative action ended in California : NPR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie1962 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 9 hours ago, Hanseng said: When I say Black community, I am referring specifically to the descendants of American slaves, not recent African immigrants such as Ethiopians and others. Not every slave descendant is unfit for a place in American society. "By their fruits you shall know them." Instead of reparations, the government could just pay the cartels to not ship drugs into the States. A significant portion of reparation money is going to end up in the pockets of the cartels any way. Drug dealers, corner liquor stores, big screen tv retailers and the like, will be the ultimate beneficiaries of "reparations." Since reparations are in the wind, how about a check for those Jews who were turned away from America when they were fleeing Hitler. The Chinese could use some extra money as well. They were shamelessly persecuted in California and deprived of their rights. That money will likely go into the education of their children, the stock market, and real estate, not the corner liquor store and bling. Here's what happened when affirmative action ended in California : NPR Equal outcomes are never successful. Impossible to achieve and it will always take away from one to give to another. My boys were among the more unfortunate as some think. After four boys thru academy, three at once and then my husbands health we could not contribute to a college education. They didn't have the advantage of affirmative action. They did achieve based on merit and hard work and very little money. They worked at what ever was available during school and long grueling hours in the summer,6 days a week,12 hour days. It isnt just people of color, lower the requirements, make allowances for any group and the results are the same Lack of money is not a terminal illness. There is a cure for that If reparations become a fact it will be interesting. Are the scores of what families and their ancestors that never owned slaves exempt from paying? Are the current families of black slave owners going to have to pay part of the reparations? What of the current black population that came willingly long after slavery? Will they receive reparations? I did years of genealogy research ,was able to trace family back to the 1600. Not a slave owner among them. So do I get taxed along with those that did own slaves? Slavery was a hideous practice, but the US did not invent the practice, it has been practiced, since bible times. But the US seems to be expected to fix the sins of the past while being blamed for all things racist. It isn't a white skin disease. It is an insult to apologize for actions of someone else hundreds of years ago and try to undo with money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie1962 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 For those trying to fix the problems of the past with acts like Affirmative action , support reparations and generally are pretty judgmental towards those that don't share your view, who would you have been 400 years ago? Slavery is about as horrific as it gets, I can't even begin to understand having my children taken from me and sold. That is about as evil as it gets from my point of view. Would I think the same if I had been raised in a culture that said this is normal, these people are beneath me and a little less than human? That had been the thinking and was taught to the next generation for thousands of years. I doubt if to many here would have been much different. You cant apply the culture of today to that hundreds and thousands of years regarding slavery. Affirmative action in todays world doesn't do a thing to correct that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanseng Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 "All men are created equal." Actually not. A child born to a drug addicted prostitute whose father was on parole and is back in prison is not equal to the child of God-fearing physician parents. There is inequality in this world. Social programs won't fix them. If you want to meet some people who are not only ignorant but low I.Q. individuals with sociopathic tendencies and personality disorders, get a job in the civil service of California. See what DIE leads to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie1962 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 24 minutes ago, Hanseng said: "All men are created equal." Actually not. A child born to a drug addicted prostitute whose father was on parole and is back in prison is not equal to the child of God-fearing physician parents. There is inequality in this world. Social programs won't fix them. If you want to meet some people who are not only ignorant but low I.Q. individuals with sociopathic tendencies and personality disorders, get a job in the civil service of California. See what DIE leads to. We seem to have a different understanding as to what "All men are created equal " means. I don't believe we are equal in all things as you pointed out. To me that is not what it means. We all are born with the natural right to life, the pursuit of happiness, and liberty. That is what I believe all men are created equal means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanseng Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Slave traders and the courts that justified the practice didn't believe that. Perhaps they meant "All [white] men are created evil?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie1962 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Hanseng said: Slave traders and the courts that justified the practice didn't believe that. Perhaps they meant "All [white] men are created evil?" I don't think we are on the same page. What our God given rights are and each and everyone of us have, doesnt have a thing to do with what slave traders thought hundreds of years ago or the idea now that is so popular and taken for granted. Not all white men are evil anymore than all black men are. There are evil rich just as there is evil poor, black and white. Regardless of skin color when you dangle this so called free carrot in front of people you create problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanseng Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 6 hours ago, bonnie1962 said: What our God given rights are and each and everyone of us have That's the issue. Black folks believe they were deprived of those "rights." They now want to be paid. America brought this on itself. Framed like this, they have a good argument. The Chinese in America should join them. They were also deprived of their rights, even though they were not slaves. Jews should also be paid, since America refused to help them in their time of need fleeing Hitler. Once America becomes bankrupt, China can buy up the country, install a communist government and resolve the social problems America created for itself and can't fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahab Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 I understand your point Bonnie. Scholarships are available. Jobs are available for those willing to work and stay out of debt. It’s hard for man to fix what has happened in the past. Seems that something always goes wrong. SOP says that slavery will return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie1962 Posted July 2, 2023 Author Share Posted July 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Hanseng said: That's the issue. Black folks believe they were deprived of those "rights." They now want to be paid. America brought this on itself. Framed like this, they have a good argument. The Chinese in America should join them. They were also deprived of their rights, even though they were not slaves. Jews should also be paid, since America refused to help them in their time of need fleeing Hitler. Once America becomes bankrupt, China can buy up the country, install a communist government and resolve the social problems America created for itself and can't fix. For those in this country that believe China has the answer to social problems I think it is safe to say China would welcome them and the US would do well to help them pack. Slavery was never unique to America. Perhaps if there are reparations they should begin in Africa with the blacks that enslaved their fellow blacks before there was America. The blacks that sold their country men to the Atlantic slave trade before they start here. Slaves of course were deprived of their rights. Slavery has a way of doing that. Nothing makes slavery in America right and nothing can undo it, no amount of money can erase that. But it does get tiresome to have the whole issue of slavery in America the white man's fault. We didn't invent it, we didn't start it, slavery was outlawed in the US after what really was a short time in comparison to all other countries that practiced it. In fact slavery is still going on in Africa I believe. Reparations and condemnation should begin where this originated. The same mentality drives the Native Americans in their condemnation of all things/people white. What the european settlers did to the Native Americans was absolutely hideous, however they had ben doing it to other tribes before the settler arrived. Then it was simply a way of life, when done to them by someone bigger and stronger it became something else. No one alive today was a slave or a slave owner. Just as I cannot be held liable for my parents debts on their death, I should not be liable for something that happened hundreds of years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie1962 Posted July 2, 2023 Author Share Posted July 2, 2023 8 minutes ago, Rahab said: I understand your point Bonnie. Scholarships are available. Jobs are available for those willing to work and stay out of debt. It’s hard for man to fix what has happened in the past. Seems that something always goes wrong. SOP says that slavery will return. You simply cannot repair the past. My boys had zero for college, yet they all went. They succeeded,not because they were white, but because they did not expect anyone to hand them a single thing. They took whatever work they could find, long hard hours. Poverty is not a terminal illness unless you let it be. Maybe most don't become wealthy but most of us aren't and do fine. I guess I am just getting tired of the continual whine of victimhood. I used to have a lot more patience and sympathy for some of this . After George Floyd and watching "the victim class" burn MPLS I lost a lot of sympathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanseng Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 40 minutes ago, bonnie1962 said: For those in this country that believe China has the answer to social problems I think it is safe to say China would welcome them and the US would do well to help them pack. China doesn't do stupid things like letting hoards of foreigners, lacking marketable skills, the ability to communicate, lack of desire to integrate, into the country. They protect their nation's borders. it's called national integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie1962 Posted July 2, 2023 Author Share Posted July 2, 2023 10 minutes ago, Hanseng said: China doesn't do stupid things like letting hoards of foreigners, lacking marketable skills, the ability to communicate, lack of desire to integrate, into the country. They protect their nation's borders. it's called national integrity. True, but that does not make it a desirable country to live in. For those that think their national integrity is so much better they should probably think about a change. Most people would not use integrity and China in the same sentence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanseng Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 hordes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanseng Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 1 minute ago, bonnie1962 said: Most people would not use integrity and China in the same sentence How much time have you spent in China? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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