Jimmy Akin looks at and reviews Ellen White

[Gustave]

Here is a Catholic's view of Ellen White from a Catholic perspective. I think anyone watching this will find this isn't what they were expecting. I'd be interested in hearing what folks have to say about this. 

 

 

 

[Hanseng]

I can't watch this video; nevertheless, this endless fascination with EGW is a child's game. Doesn't matter whether it is creeds, theologians, philosophers. Paul said that men put away childish things. The Bible is the rule of faith and practice for Protestants. If you are going to let scholars, EGW, or the magisterium of any denomination tell you what to believe, you are not a man.

[Gregory Matthews]

I am profoundly impressed with the first video which I watched.  I will watch the second later. The intellectual honesty of Jimmy Akin is impressive.  His use of SDA sources is impressive and results in establishing a foundation that cannot be challenged on a factual basis.  His willingness to acknowledge SDA rebuttals to a position that he might hold is appreciated.  He clearly seeks to accurately describe SDA positions.

 

Video # 229:   This is mostly a historical view of the development of the SDA Church and the life and ministry of EGW:

*  Jimmy Akin is generally accurate in his description of the historical development of the Millerite Movement, the early life of EGW, the prediction and failure of the predicted Second Advent and the early doctrinal beliefs of those who developed into the SDA Chruch.

*  I have a very minor disagreement with one historical aspect of his view of the predicted Second Advent.  But, his view has been repeated by others.

*  He cites a recent book by Steve Dailly.  That book is controversial in Adventism.  In his honesty, he has stated that in the next video, he will cite and discuss SDA Criticisms of that book.

*   In this video he is limited in his treatment of what EGW actually wrote.  In his reference to a passage that has been criticized he presents the SDA view.  My reference is to the EGW description of life on another planet and the view of Joseph Bates on that description.

*  He, like many SDA members, has failed to understand that EGW gave advice that was specific to a time, place. person and situation.  In other words, her advice was not intended for the general membership of the SDA denomination.  It was for a specific person.

*  His discussion of the issue as to the inspiration of the EGW Writing vs. the visions that preceded their writing is an important issue.  He presents EGW as more rigid on this issue that I consider to be accurate.  This is a difference on my part, in the analysis of what she stated on this issue.

*  He is fair in presenting the Antiochus Epiphanes IV view of the 2300-day prophecy.   This is the general understanding of that prophecy that disagrees with what has been the general SDA view.   

 

Video # 230:   Is an analysis of the work and ministry of EGW:

 

·          My comments as to the video above generally apply to this second video.

·         In general, Jimmy Akin is very respectful of EGW and in rejecting as unsupported many of the criticisms that have been made about EGW and her work.

·         I wish that he had relied less than he did on the book by Steve Daily.  The issues that Daily raised are important and need to be addressed.

·         He spends a lot of time in discussing how EGW has copied material from other writers and the work of those who edited her writings.  Actually he is out of date on this as today SDA scholars are much more aware of this issue. 

·         However, I am surprised that he does not cite the 8-year study of EGWs use of source material in the book The Desire of Ages.  The following links take you to two articles published in the December 1990 issue of Ministry, on this issue.  Today we know much more than we did in 1990.

 

https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1990/12/the-desire-of-ages-project-the-conclusions

https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1990/12/olson-discusses-the-veltman-study

·          *  Generally he has used sources that SDAs consider to be creditable.  This video present some exceptions.  He has taken a view on her use of the word  “amalgamation” that is subject to debate.

·         *  It is clear that Ellen White was not perfect in her understanding of God and Biblical teachings at the age of 17.  She grew spiritually as must all of us.  God did not step directly in to correct her when her understanding was either incomplete or in error.

·         *  The same is true for her understandings of science, human anatomy, and much more about human life.   Yes, EGW believed in Phrenology.  She was wrong.  So, What?  Her human error, and being wrong, does not mean ipso facto that she was not inspired by God.

·         *  I use the word “species” in the manner of scientific taxonomy today.  She did not use that word in that sense as she had no understanding of the sense in which I use it.

·         *  While not generally known it is true that until late in her life she enjoyed eating oysters.  What he failed to point out is that The SDA Church was not in agreement as to whether or not oysters, and several other foods, were part of the so-called “unclean.”

In brief, there is much that I appreciate in this second video.  I think very highly of Jimmy Akin and the work that he has done in those two videos.  But, I do not consider them to be perfect in every sense.

Gregory Matthews

 

[Hanseng]

Sounds like this writer simply went to an anti EGW website and copied various objections made through the years. Is there anything in this study which hasn't already been said? A Roman Catholic criticizes EGW? Nothing unexpected there. RCs have been on Luther's case for centuries. Both Luther and EGW identified the papal power as a manifestation of the anti-Christ. Generally, RC scholars can't hold a candle to Protestants. Jesuit Fitzmyer's Romans Commentary is hardly comparable to Cranfield or even F.F. Bruce's Tyndale commentary on Romans. Fitzmeyer's work on the historical background to Romans is worth reading. Note that historical backgrounds are not Biblical exegesis or interpretation.

I once gave a portion of Desire of Ages to the spiritual director of a RC teaching order. He reviewed it, then said he would not recommend the book since it was full of errors. He would not allow it to be placed in the library of the monastery where the teachers lived. RCs and many SDA now dismiss EGW as a typical anti-Catholic writer of her era. The man was, from what I know of him, a fine Christian gentleman and a very gracious person. He definitely didn't like Desire of Ages.

Works published under the name of EGW, such as Ministry of Healing, are a valuable contribution to the interpretation of the Life of Christ. The emphasis on Christ's healing ministry, as well as the health of the individual believer, is a valuable contribution to Christian life.

[Gustave]

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Hanseng said:

Sounds like this writer simply went to an anti EGW website and copied various objections made through the years. Is there anything in this study which hasn't already been said?

You evidently need to watch it again if you even watched it. Your statement would appear to indicate you didn't, or at the least, didn't retain anything you saw and heard. 

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Hanseng said:

Both Luther and EGW identified the papal power as a manifestation of the anti-Christ. Generally, RC scholars can't hold a candle to Protestants. Jesuit Fitzmyer's Romans Commentary is hardly comparable to Cranfield or even F.F. Bruce's Tyndale commentary on Romans. Fitzmeyer's work on the historical background to Romans is worth reading. Note that historical backgrounds are not Biblical exegesis or interpretation.

You are clearly not well read if you really feel the way you do about RC scholars. In any event Ellen claimed a more powerful office than any Pope has. You're no more Protestant than the LDS Church is. 

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Hanseng said:

I once gave a portion of Desire of Ages to the spiritual director of a RC teaching order. He reviewed it, then said he would not recommend the book since it was full of errors. He would not allow it to be placed in the library of the monastery where the teachers lived. RCs and many SDA now dismiss EGW as a typical anti-Catholic writer of her era. The man was, from what I know of him, a fine Christian gentleman and a very gracious person. He definitely didn't like Desire of Ages.

If the section he referred to contained teachings that Christ could have sinned, lost His Salvation and eternally become as if He never existed, he was right to not want it in his [theological] library. It would be like having a book that purports to be a religious devotional which suggests the form God like to take the most is that of an African Giant Toad. 

Have you ever considered that some of these people who dismiss Ellen White may have had other reasons for dismissing Ellen white aside from claiming she was an anti-Catholic writer? 

 

 

 

[Hanseng]

8 hours ago, Gustave said:

if you even watched it.

A previous post stated that I did not watch it. I was responding the summary provided by Chaplain Matthews. If you have issues with his summary, take it up with him.

[Hanseng, not once did I say that I intended to summarize the two videos.  I evaluated them and him.  There is a major difference.  If you want to know what he said in the videos, you will have to watch them.   Yes, it is clear from your comments that you did not watch the videos--Gregory Matthews.]