Adventists Join Pope Francis

[Gregory Matthews]

Adventists accept papal invitation: The following Catholic article reports on Adventists accepting an invitation to join Pope Francis. See:

https://catholicreview.org/pope-mongolian-religious-leaders-vow-to-promote-harmony-shun-violence/

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rehab:

Do you think that the SDA Church should not cooperate with the Pope, in some area of human life on which we have common agreement?

The link to the article above pointed out that the area of common agreement was that religious beliefs should NOT be promoted by violence.  Do you think that religion should be promoted by violence?

 

[Rahab]

I believe we should distance ourselves from the papacy and it’s system. 

[Gregory Matthews]

O.K.  So, it appears that in any news about the Roman Catholic Church, you already have a lens by which you will view that news.

[Rahab]

Ephesians 5:11 
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
 

[Gregory Matthews]

O.K. Rahab:

As I understand your position:

*  You would never share a social meal with your next-door neighbor, as that person might be  engaging in works of darkness.

*  You would never join a community effort to reduce crime as that community organization supported some work of darkness.

*  The SDA Church is i imperfect.  As such, and with the assumption that  it may hold to some errors that are works of darkness, you would advocate departing the  fellowship of SDA members.

*  If the Pope is involved in an effort to stop the promotion of Christian values by violent means, that in itself is a work of darkness  and you would not advocate participating in that effort.

By the way, Rahab, did you read the article?

As I understand the Bible, all works of righteousness are works of God.  People of good faith and of heavenly virtue can unite together to promote those common agreements while disagreeing on other matters.  Neither the Roman Catholic Church nor the Seventh-day Adventist denomination is perfect in all of its ways.  God expects all of us to weed out the imperfect.  

[Rahab]

Not be joined to them

but rather correct and be kind to others 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rahab:  Your first quote was an exact quote from the KJV.  The KJV used the word "fellowship."  The KJV did not use the word "joined."  I have to assume that you used the translation that stated it as you wanted it to be.

As you used that Biblical verse, you seemed to be saying that one should have not fellowship with those who engage in deeds of darkness.  However, that is a mis-use of the KJV and all other common translations.  Actually what the KJV and the others are saying is that one should not participate with others in deeds of darkness.

Therefore, regardless of what you may think of the Pope, the Biblical verse is only telling us we should not participate with the Pope in deeds of darkness.  It is not telling us that we should not participate with the Pope in Godly deeds of light.

So, now the issue becomes:  When the Pope says that religious values should not be promoted by violence is that a deed of darkness, or is it a Godly deed?  I say that it is a Godly deed.

Rather it appears to me that your position is getting close to being a deed or darkness as you seem to suggest that it is right to promote religious values by violence.  Of course, that is not what you intended to say.  But you have come close to appearing to say that.

  

[Rahab]

2 Corinthians 6:14 KJV
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rahab:  We have some substantial differences with Roman Catholics on a number of doctrinal issues.  But, the Roman Catholic Church can hardly be said to be an unbeliever.  It is a Christian group with we agree on a number of issues.

Furthermore, taken literally, your position would prevent you from being employed by the majority of businesses.  Outside of denominational employment, the majority of businesses in the United States do not take a Christian position on anything.  I assume that you own an automobile that runs on gasoline.  Do you only purchase your gasoline from a place that openly advocates the doctrinal beliefs that you hold?

I suspect that on a daily basis, you are yoked in business proceedings with many who do not believe as you do.  

Your stated position is neither logical nor Biblical.

 

[Rahab]

Hosea 4:17 
Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.
 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rahab:  Ephraim was the principal tribe of the northern kingdom.  It was a part of the 10-tribes of the Children of Israel.  It had departed from the known faith and therefore was to be left to its fate.  There is nothing in this verse that applies to an individual outside of Israel.  You might say that other verses do.  But, your cited verse does not.  

In its application you might fairly apply it to the SDA Chruch.  If you were to believe that a SDA leader had departed from the fundamental beliefs of Christianity you might be correct is saying to have nothing to do with that person.  But, you would not be correct in applying it either to other members of the Christian faith, or to people who are not affiliated with Christianity.

So, it might be one thing if you applied Ephraim to a high SDA official, but you would not be correct to apply it to joining the Biship of Rome is agreeing that Christianity should not be propagated by violence.

[Gregory Matthews]

The Bible is true and it should be the authority in our lives.  However, it is critical as to how we understand and use it.  There is an ancient story that probably lacks truth, but illustrates the importance of using the Bible correctly.   In this story the person whom I will call a man each morning is said to open the Bible each morning, put his finger on a verse, and assume that verse was God's instruction for him that day.

*  One morning as he did that his finger landed on Matthew 27:5.

*  He did not like what that verse told him to do, so he did it a second time and his finger landed on Luke 10;27.

*  That bothered him, so he did it a third time, and his finger landed on Ecclesiastes 9:10.

My point is not to point a finger at anyone posting in this forum.  Rather, it is to illustrate that the Bible is a word from God that requires careful study to determine what God is saying to us today.

[Gregory Matthews]

At this point, I am going to make a statement as to my thinking about Christianity and the Roman Catholic Church.

I consider there to be central, core elements of belief that determine whether or not a religious group is a part of Christianity.  Those core elements are:

*  The salvation was provided humanity by the work and ministry of Jesus Christ that included the events of Calvary and the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

*  That Jesus Christ was fully God in all aspects of being God.

*  That the Bible, in what it teaches about God and the Christian life is true and valid.

The Roman Catholic accepts all of the above, and therefore, I consider it to be a part of the Christian community.

I do have some differences with some aspects of Roman Catholic teaching.  I do not agree with their understanding of tradition in one's Christian life.  I have some other disagreements on their doctrinal understandings which include sacramental teachings among others.  But, this is true for my disagreements with the doctrinal understandings of other religious groups that I consider to be Christian.

There is a reality that there is a human element in every Christian group.  None are perfect in all of their ways.  The SDA denomination is not perfect in all of its ways.  That is why it has moved over the years on some   doctrinal issues.  it is also why the SDA Chruch follows in some ways is a so-called "Big Tent" philosophy in which its members do not all agree on everything.

But, through all of our imperfections, God is leading.