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Dr. Shane

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Saddam Hussein To Hang

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Angry, shaking and defiant, Saddam Hussein was sentenced to death this morning by hanging for ordering the massacre of Iraqi civilians.

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Saddam was convicted of ordering the deaths of 148 Shia men and teenage boys in the town of Dujail in 1982.

The killings followed a failed assassination attempt against him and were intended to act as a grim warning to others not to oppose him.

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He had wanted to face a firing squad - that request was refused.

Celebratory gunfire echoed across Baghdad while fighting broke out in the north of the city.

Saddam's lawyer said the former president urged Iraqis "not to take revenge" on the US coalition and to "unify in the face of sectarian strike".

Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com

Author of  Peculiar Christianity

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Court: Execute Saddam Within 30 Days

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Iraq's highest appeals court on Tuesday upheld the death sentence for Saddam Hussein in his first trial and said it must be carried out within 30 days. The sentence "must be implemented within 30 days," chief judge Aref Shahin. "From tomorrow, any day could be the day of implementation."

I was kind of hoping he would be tried on some of the other charges so that the world could really see what a monster he was. As bad as the masecure that he was convicted of was, he had done many other things that were worse.

Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com

Author of  Peculiar Christianity

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Court: Execute Saddam Within 30 Days

...I was kind of hoping he would be tried on some of the other charges so that the world could really see what a monster he was. As bad as the masecure that he was convicted of was, he had done many other things that were worse.

Yes, such as being responsible for the deaths of over a million people in the war with Iran, the ruthless killings in Kuwait, to say nothing of the terrible murders by his sons which Saddam condoned. His sons would sometimes have enemies stripped naked and fed feet first into a tree shredding machine in front of their spouses or children.

I am never happy to see anyone die or be executed, but if anyone deserves it, it's clear that Saddam does.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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The reason we are over there now is because Saddam invaded Kuwait. If he hadn't done that we would not be losing all of our boys over there. So ... he is responsible for that also.

If he had then honored the cease fire we would not have to be in there this second time. The cease fire required him to submit to regular inspections to prove he was not having weapons of mass distruction. He may have hidden them in syria but the point is the war had to start up again when he disobeyed the cease-fire.

So ... I want him to be responsible for all the current deaths of our boys over there now.

REDWOOD

May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.
 

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Remember, the American Ambassador to Iraq stated publicly the Bush SR, gave his OK to invade Kuwait and told Saddam "the borders of the Muslim countries are not of a concern to the American People" or words very similar to that.

It is 'odd' that people can not find her now.

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Well, of course, they have different standards than we do about that sort of thing. They televise their hangings, as they did just recently of 7 or so criminals.

It might do some good for them to see him hang because they were so afraid of him that many won't believe he's dead unless they see it for themselves. A lot people didn't believe his sons were dead until they saw photos of their bodies. It could be important for them as a society to know there's no hope and no reason to fear that Saddam could ever return to power.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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Remember, the American Ambassador to Iraq stated publicly the Bush SR, gave his OK to invade Kuwait and told Saddam "the borders of the Muslim countries are not of a concern to the American People" or words very similar to that.

It is 'odd' that people can not find her now.

Do you have a link to this information about the woman you refer to that cannot be found?

No doubt Americans have made some big mistakes, and maybe we did indeed set him up for a big fall, but Saddam is responsible for a lot more evil than the invasion of Kuwait and even than the war against Iran. If for nothing else, he deserves to die simply based on how he condoned his sons' murdering people in some of the most horrific ways imaginable. They really can't possibly try him for all the evil he is responsible for.

For instance, what about Saddam's penchant for watching film of his enemies being blown up by dynamite that was placed in their shirt pockets?

And I'll never forget the film I saw of Saddam smiling as men in his government were being told they were going to be taken outside and hanged simply because Saddam felt they weren't loyal enough to him. He took obvious pleasure in watching people squirm and sweat and in some cases vomit from fear in their seats as the condemned men's names were read.

It seems to me almost a crime against humanity every day that such a man is allowed to see another sunset or breath air.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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I am never happy to see anyone die or be executed, but if anyone deserves it, it's clear that Saddam does.

But from God's point of view you and Saddam are equally guilty and deserve the 2nd death. Food for thought.

Rob

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Bush lied to get us in that war

I had a long post composed to deal with this oft-repeated mistake. But having experienced the attacks of 'Christians' who dislike Bush and his policies more than they value simple facts, I demurred.

God have mercy on those who impute negative motivations on others, that they be not subjected to the same abuse.

“the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell

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Bush lied to get us in that war

I had a long post composed to deal with this oft-repeated mistake. But having experienced the attacks of 'Christians' who dislike Bush and his policies more than they value simple facts, I demurred.

God have mercy on those who impute negative motivations on others, that they be not subjected to the same abuse.

My God have mercy on those who cover up for Bush....

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If Bush lied he must be one of the best liars ever to convince the US Congress and 36 other nations all to go to war.

More likely, Saddam was bluffing and Bush with the world behind him, called his bluff. Now Saddam pays with his life and Bush will soon retire and live his days out in peace.

Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com

Author of  Peculiar Christianity

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Ed ... I also get very confused about HOW people can say that Bush lied. No one has showed me that he lied.

They frequently say that he lied about WMD. He simply passed on the intelligence that pointed that direction. And the simple truth is they DID find WMD. MAYBE not to the degree they expected. But, there were hundreds of missles with tons of Mustard Gas which is a WMD.

There were so many good reasons for getting Saddam that I lost track of all the reasons he gave. The number one was he was an evil man that was raping his country. That ALONE was a good Christian reason to rescue the Iraqi people which we did.

The second one was that he violated the terms of the cease fire signed after BUSH 1 . He violated 17 UN resolutions. Was that enough? He knew what was coming. He had agreed to the terms of war in writing.

Redwood

May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.
 

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I think it fair to hold Bush accountable for the war going so bad. I believe he had reason to go into Iraq and the effort was noble. However things started going bad right away and Rumsfeild was kept on board way too long - way too long.

Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com

Author of  Peculiar Christianity

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Wondering out loud again, I pray that this sinner of sinners will have the opportunity to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ before he is put to death, that he may have a chance to receive God's forgiveness and eternal life as is the great commission given. We must do as Jesus would do, offer to all men the gift of salvation freely. There is only one unpardonable sin afterall.

annie

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YES I agree but like Lucifer who had hardened his heart ... and had to be kicked out of heaven ... I think Saddam will need to be kicked out of this earth. GOD's Will be done.

May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.
 

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I think it fair to hold Bush accountable for the war going so bad. I believe he had reason to go into Iraq and the effort was noble. However things started going bad right away and Rumsfeild was kept on board way too long - way too long.

But why did it "start going bad right away"

1. Not enough troops

2. Poor post-war planning

3. No WMD

There is evidence that there were some in/out of the administraion that called attention to these issues. A different decision could have been made. It was not. The decision was flawed. The resulting nightmare is the cold hard evidence of it.

Furthermore when the Whitehouse spokesman says " it has never been stay the course" we know that things are even more disfunctional that we feared!

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence.

Einstein

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Wars by their nature are unpredictable. A nation that goes to war never knows exactly what they are getting into until they have gotten into it. So when idealogues start saying things like not enough troops were sent initciallly or not enough planning was done, we know this is just partisan rhethoric to create strawmen.

We can go back through any war and find major errors made. That is because hindsight is 20/20. Where this administration is to blame is that after they realized how much resistance was being encountered in the sunni triangle, changes were not made. More troops should have been brought in and the training of Iraqi troops should have been accelerated.

Many of the WMDs Saddam claimed he had destroyed have been found. Those were made prior to the first Gulf War. The WMDs that did not exist were the ones many believed he made after 1991. Saddam was talking out of both sides of his mouth. He was telling the UN he had no WMDs and then he would send someone out to "leak" secret information to the west about his WMD program. He set himself up to be challenged. He was bluffing and the world community called his bluff.

Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com

Author of  Peculiar Christianity

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Originally Posted By: John317
I am never happy to see anyone die or be executed, but if anyone deserves it, it's clear that Saddam does.

But from God's point of view you and Saddam are equally guilty and deserve the 2nd death. Food for thought.

Rob

Yes, all humanity is indeed guilty before God, except for the blood and righteousness of Christ that covers those who put their entire faith and reliance upon Him.

But that is really not what we have to consider here. We are talking about what the Bible says is human justice that society and the state is responsible for enforcing. See 1 Cor. 13:1-6.

Jesus' words about forgiveness were directed to individual believers. Jesus did not mean that since all people are sinners before God, and therefore deserving of death, no criminal should be punished by the state or by governments. It is clear from the Bible that God makes a distinction between sins, that all sins are not equally offensive before God. To make no distinction and to say all sins are alike makes God out to be less reasonable than humans. No human, for instance, would say that a man who attepts to obey God and do the right thing is as deserving of being punished as the devil or as someone who deliberately commits the kinds of terrible crimes as Hitler or Saddam. Therefore I believe it is only right to make a distinction between someone like Saddam and people such as yourself when it comes to human, or earthly, justice. It is significant that when the wicked are destroyed God punish some more than others. See GC 673.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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Originally Posted By: Redwood
So ... I want him to be responsible for all the current deaths of our boys over there now.

REDWOOD

Bush lied to get us in that war....He should be responsible!

What do you propose? Every American president has accepted responsibility for the decision to go to war. This war in Iraq is not over. So in a sense the jury is still out on it. Let history be the judge. If a year from now the Iraqi situation has altered for the better, Bush will look good. On the other hand, if it blows up in a full scale civil war that cannot be controlled, and it leaves the country divided permenantly, everyone will agree that Bush made a big miscalculation and mistake.

You have to remember, besides, that Bush was only going by what all intelligence agencies were saying at that time. While he was still president, Clinton himself also said that Saddam would be have to forced out. Congress voted for regime change without Bush lying to them. They were going by the intelligence briefings that Bush himself got from various services.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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But why did it "start going bad right away"

1. Not enough troops

2. Poor post-war planning

I left out the "no WMD" point because it's hard to understand how the presence of WMD's would have helped the effort go better. Some criticism might have been avoided, but the critics would simply have found something else to fasten onto, such as imaginary "lies."

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It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

--Theodore Roosevelt

Criticism takes neither talent nor courage.

“the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell

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I left out the "no WMD" point because it's hard to understand how the presence of WMD's would have helped the effort go better. Some criticism might have been avoided, but the critics would simply have found something else to fasten onto, such as imaginary "lies."

I'm surpised you would make such a point. Surely, if the reason for the war had been shown to be justified there would more support for the war at home, among the alies and in Iraq. That would have helped the war effort. The loss of support for the war is, in part, due to the realisation that the publically stated reason for going to war was not ligitimate.

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It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

--Theodore Roosevelt

I like the quote.

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Criticism takes neither talent nor courage.

I feel you overstate your case. There are many a courageous man/woman who have displayed courage and talent in their criticism.

BTW isn't there implied criticism in your last sentence. Hmmmm.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence.

Einstein

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There were multiple reasons given to go to war with Iraq in the Autorization To Use Force passed by both houses of Congress. The White House couldn't have done a worse job of defending its action. Bush seems to believe that by responding to his critics he gives them legitamacy and as a result he just ignores most of what they say. As a result he critics hammer away quite effectively.

Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com

Author of  Peculiar Christianity

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