Is Jesus Really the Only Way to Heaven?

[phkrause]

Interesting article:

“There are many ways to heaven.” So says a common platitude spouted by non-Christians who take issue with the exclusivity of Jesus Christ for salvation. Three words in these two statements help us give an answer for the hope within us (1 Peter 3:15😞 heaven, exclusivity, and salvation.

https://www.crosswalk.com/faith/spiritual-life/is-jesus-really-the-only-way-to-heaven.html?

[8thdaypriest]

I have an article on my website prophecyviewpoint.com, titled "The Only Way."  

https://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/6a-The Only Way.htm

The question then became (for me), "What will Jesus do with all the human beings who lived and died in ignorance or immaturity, without any knowledge of Yehovah, or of Yeshua Messiah?   Will they just remain dead, as if they were animals?   Collateral damage?

I have answered that question for myself.   I believe "the rest of the dead" (Rev 20:5) will be all those who died in ignorance.  Those redeemed at the Glorious Return will become "priests of God and of Christ" (Rev 20:6) to teach and govern "the rest."  We know that most of "the rest" will rebel against the rule of Christ.  They will constitute the Gog/Magog army and supporters.  But many, many will come to know Christ as Lord and Savior.  They will be "grafted in" to the Israel of God.  

 

[phkrause]

7 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I have answered that question for myself.   I believe "the rest of the dead" (Rev 20:5) will be all those who died in ignorance.  Those redeemed at the Glorious Return will become "priests of God and of Christ" (Rev 20:6) to teach and govern "the rest."  We know that most of "the rest" will rebel against the rule of Christ.  They will constitute the Gog/Magog army and supporters.  But many, many will come to know Christ as Lord and Savior.  They will be "grafted in" to the Israel of God.  

Are you saying this will happen between the first and second resurrection or during the 1000 yrs??

[Gustave]

Those who make it will be on account of Jesus, regardless of what point in earth's history they lived. 

[8thdaypriest]

On 12/10/2023 at 7:29 PM, phkrause said:

Are you saying this will happen between the first and second resurrection or during the 1000 yrs??

I believe this will happen during the 8th millennium.  Following the "second resurrection"  of "the rest."  

I agree with SDAs, that this earth will be rendered "without form and void" as Jeremiah saw. (Jer 4:23).   It will be the "uninhabited place." 

Many reasons for my view.  

1.  The consecration of priests took 7 days.  If a "day" with the LORD, is 1000 years, then our consecration as "priests of God and of Christ" will not be complete UNTIL the start of the 8th millennium.

2.  I wondered for years, why the LORD still needs "priests" AFTER the Glorious Return of Christ. 

Isaiah 61:6 But you shall be named the priests of the LORD, They shall call you the servants of our God. You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, And in their glory you shall boast. 7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honor, And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion. Therefore in their land they shall possess double; Everlasting joy shall be theirs. 8 "For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery for burnt offering; I will direct their work in truth, And will make with them an everlasting covenant. 9 Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles, And their offspring among the people. All who see them shall acknowledge them, That they are the posterity whom the LORD has blessed." (NKJ)

The Levites were to receive "no portion" of land, according to the Torah.  So these CANNOT BE Levite priests.  I believe this passage is describing the future redeemed priests, from "the first resurrection."  Which we will be.

3.  Anciently the priests were judges of last resort, taught the law, collected the tithes, distributed the tithes to the poor every 3rd year,  kept records, etc. etc.  In other words, they were the government.  

I believe the redeemed from "the first resurrection" at the Glorious Return, will teach and govern those raised "second." 

4.  The prophecy of Ezekiel's Temple must be fulfilled.  I believe that Temple will be the Temple FOR "the rest" after they "live again" at the 8th millennium. 

5.  If you study the Ezekiel prophecy of the Gog/Magog Battle, you will find that this battle will take place AFTER "all" Israel is "returned to the land."  "ALL" would have to include Daniel, and Joseph, and David, etc. etc. etc. etc.   The current "return" of Jews which became the modern State of Israel, did not include "ALL."  The dead are missing.  All those who died in faith are missing. 

In the Ezekiel prophecy, the tribal allotments border "the sea."  But in the "new earth," there will BE no sea.  So this prophecy of Ezekiel is describing a period of time AFTER "the return" of ALL Israel to the land, and BEFORE the creation of the "new heavens and new earth."  It is BEFORE the New Jerusalem descends. 

In the Ezekiel prophecy there are "wild beasts" and scavenger animals.  Definitely not yet the "new earth."   

6.  The Bible does not say that all those raised at the 8th millennium will be consumed in fire from God.   Only the rebels who join with Gog of Magog, will be consumed as they attack "the land."  

Many more reasons . . . . . 

 

 

[Kevin H]

We need to turn to the trinity to understand how Jesus is the only way for salvation. The role of God the Father is God as power, the great unapproachable light/the deep darkness, the awesome overwhelming to teach us that God is not a creature like we are, but something else and too big for us to comprehend. 

God the Son is God as our personal friend, God as approachable. 

These two aspects of the Godhead are both objective revelations. We are both objective and subjective. 

God the Holy Spirit is God revealing God's self to our subjective existential experience, and pointing us to Christ. 

Too often when we say that Jesus is the only way of salvation, we misapply and say that salvation is only in Christianity, that we need to say the magic words about Jesus and give the history lesson on what he did on earth. 

The Holy Spirit is pointing us to God as our personal friend. In the play/movie Fiddler on the Roof, Tevye is a reflection of real life Jews who reached out to God as a friend, and who would talk to God as his friend. We can see this in real life in for example the books by Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel, and the life and art of Marc Chagall, and the book "This is My God" by Herman Wouk. Praying in Jesus' name means to pray inn the character of Jesus, or to pray for the same types of things that Jesus would pray for. Anyone, from any religion, including the religion of secular humanism and atheism, who care about the same type of things that Jesus would pray for, are praying in the name of Jesus, and thus reaching out to Jesus. 

And as we look at the issue of the destruction of the wicked, and the redeemed being in heaven, both are how we relate to seeing Jesus in person. 

[8thdaypriest]

On 12/12/2023 at 5:45 PM, Kevin H said:

We need to turn to the trinity to understand how Jesus is the only way for salvation.

I do not believe our God is a Trinity.  Does that mean I cannot be saved?  Is belief in a triune "God" salvational?

Show me one passage with a command or example, that we should pray to, thank, praise, or otherwise "worship" the Spirit AS a third divine person/being.  

Ephesians 4:6 "one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." 

If the Father is "through all" and in all believers, that makes HIM spirit.  And that is what Jesus said.  "God is spirit."

Yes.  I worship the Holy Spirit, because the Spirit IS God the Father.  

I do not worship the Holy Spirit AS a third divine person.  

I worship God's Son BECAUSE the Father has commanded it, and I read about such in the New Testament.

Revelation 5:13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." (NAS)

I see TWO persons worshiped here.  Father and Son.

At the end of the Revelation, I see that Father and Son "are the Temple" of the New Jerusalem.  

[Kevin H]

In the Old Testament, we find the words "El" and "Elohim" which when you read these texts describes God as the great power, what the second temple, and Christians call "God the Father."

Then we have YHWH, YHWH Elohim, the angel of the Lord who turns out to be the Lord, which describes God as personal friend, God as relationship, while recognized by the second temple I don't know what they called this, but Christians call this "God the Son"

Then you also find texts finding God working with the subjective/existential experience, again recognized by the second temple, but who Christians call "God the Holy Spirit""

I've only heard second hand information through some of my professors, especially Jim Fleming who worked with a rabbi at Hebrew University, who is the world's foremost authority on Second Temple Judaism; and he came to see that the idea that was later called by Christians as the trinity originated in the second temple to describe these three aspects/revelations of God in the TANAK. But that there was originally a unity between their understanding of the oneness of God and the threeness of God; and that starting with the church/synagogue split of 135 AD caused this doctrine to be divided up with the Jews giving up trinity and going more towards the oneness, and the Christians giving lip service to the oneness, but their focus went more towards the threeness, and that neither group holds what they both held in common up to 135 AD. 

The trinity helps to clarify what it means for salvation to only be through "Christ" and how this relates to non-Christians, and helps to explain most of the threes in the Bible, and in understanding the final sharpening of Mrs. Whites "great controversy" philosophy. But again, our salvation is through our friendship/relationship with God. 

We have many who want to use the power of God (God the Father) but without the relationship. They end up worshiping their strength and authority, or the strength and authority of what ever group they belong to.   We find those who want to focus on the work of God on the subjective/existential (God the Spirit) but without the relationship they end up slaves to their feelings that see their feelings as the final authority, which instead of worship of God turns into worship of self and existentialism/spiritualism. While the Holy Spirit points us to our need for God and a relationship with God, and by beholding we become changed. 

People who are reaching out to God for a relationship and friendship; no matter if they are Jews, other non-Christians, or Christians who are not comfortable with the idea of the trinity. We all know in part and we prophecy in part; the issue is if we have a teachable spirit. If we allow God's revelation to our subjective/existential to reach out to God as our personal friend, God will be able to work with any of us who are willing to learn and to cling to their relationship with God. 

 

[8thdaypriest]

And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (1Co 15:45 NKJ)

What do you make of this verse? 

If Yeshua "was made" or "became" a spirit, would that not be the Comforter with us.   He did say, "I am with you always."

John the Baptist prophesied that Messiah would "baptize" with the Holy Spirit.  (Matt 3:11, Mk 1:8, Lk 3:16, Jo 7:33&39) 

John 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."  (NKJ)

If Jesus will "manifest" Himself to the one who loves Him, and if He can now function as "spirit,"  then is He not Himself the Comforter?

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. (KJV)

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (KJV)

Here Christ promised that BOTH He and His Father would make their abode with those who love Him.  

I don't see a THIRD divine person in these texts. 

I see God our Father and His only begotten Son.  

 

[8thdaypriest]

We come TO the Father, THROUGH His Son.  

The Father is invisible and everywhere present.  The Son was visible, both to angels and to men. 

If the Father "sees in secret," and is "in the secret place,"  why would there need to be a third divine being who is everywhere? 

    Matthew 1:18-20  says Mary was "found with child of the Holy Spirit."  Also Luke 1:35. 

  If Yeshua was  conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit, would this not make the Holy Spirit Yeshua's "father?"  Yet John says He was the "Son of the Father," (meaning God the Father).  

2 John 1:3 “Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.”  

 

[Theophilus]

oh boy.

[Kevin H]

I don't want to spend much time debating these things. I can only encourage you to keep studying. Now, one point I will mention is that there is a difference between how the Greek and from them western minds picture the word "son" as opposed to near eastern thought. 

Greek though has a "son" as the child of an older person. Hebrew/ Ancient Near Eastern would also see "son" as equal to the father. For example, if you were conducting business with someone, the father and son were both equal to make the deal. There would be co-regencies where two people, often a father and son, but not necessary, would rule at the same time and either one could do something and the other would allow it. 

[phkrause]

On 12/11/2023 at 9:35 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

1.  The consecration of priests took 7 days.  If a "day" with the LORD, is 1000 years, then our consecration as "priests of God and of Christ" will not be complete UNTIL the start of the 8th millennium.

From what I've learned only prophecies are a day for year! The consecration of the priests I don't see that as a prophecy!!

[Kevin H]

On 12/11/2023 at 9:35 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

 The consecration of priests took 7 days.  If a "day" with the LORD, is 1000 years, then our consecration as "priests of God and of Christ" will not be complete UNTIL the start of the 8th millennium.

I'm sorry my friend, but you are taking the ideas of a day with the Lord is 1000 years out of context and using this to eclipse the Biblical texts that is in the context of how you are misusing the day for 1000 years. 

The day with the Lord is 1000 years is given in the context of God's eternal nature. Not in prophetic time.  The Bible gives us the prophetic cycles in Leviticus 23 and 25, and here and there in Deuteronomy. 

These texts use the idea of a week to show the prophetic time  cycles may be applied: These are six days and the Seventh-day Sabbath, The months between the New Year and Yom Kippur  and Passover, and the months between Passover and the great fall festivals of New Year and Yom Kippur. The two growing seasons of the land. Six years and the Sabbatical year, and in Leviticus, but not Deuteronomy we find six Sabbatical years and the Jubilee. 

Thus, according to Leviticus 23, 25 and Deuteronomy a prophetic day = a day, or a day=a month, or a day = a year, and in Leviticus, but NOT Deuteronomy a day = a Sabbatical year. 

I'm sorry but the day = a thousand years does NOT show up in the context of the prophetic cycles. Neither do the texts that say that a day to the Lord is like 1000 years have a statement that Moses made a mistake and forgot to mention the day = 1000 years with the other cycles of time. 

The day for the Lord is like 1000 years and 1000 years is like a day is telling us the timelessness of God. 

The prophetic time cycles are day, month, year, and in Leviticus but not Deuteronomy, Sabbatical year.