Persons of God book by Rachel Cory-Kuehl

[8thdaypriest]

I have loaded a pdf copy of "The Persons of God" on my website prophecyviewpoint.com.

It is under a hidden tab.  I will send the link to anyone who requests.  You can message me here on ClubAdventist, or you can message me through my website.  

The book is a compilation of almost every published statement from Ellen White, on the nature of God.  

Rachel Cory-Kuehl

[Gustave]

8thdaypriest,

What is your personal summary of Ellen White's statements on the nature of God? Did Ellen White posit that The Father could eternally cease to exist, become as if He never was, etc? 

 

[8thdaypriest]

I compiled the syllabus/book from '96 to '98, in response to a close friend of mine, who came to believe that our God is NOT a Trinity of 3 divine "persons."   I was determined to correct my friend.  I could see at once, that her new beliefs would set her at odds with SDA fundamentals.   

After searching the database 4 hours a day for two years,  it became rather obvious (at least to me) that the view expressed in writings published in Mrs White's name had definitely CHANGED.   Whether this was done by her underwriter Marion Davis (influenced by Herbert C. Lacey and others) I did not know.  

Herbert Camden Lacey was 17 when his family converted to Adventism from the Church of England in 1887.  Mrs White lived with the lacey family for a time.  After the death of his first wife, Mrs White's son Willie, married Lacey's sister May.  You can see that the families were close.

Lacey became an educator on the faculty of Avondale College, teaching Bible and Greek, and also engaged in evangelism seminars.  Mrs Davis attended one of those "Studies" on "The Personality of the Holy Spirit."   In a letter to Elder Froom, Lacey wrote about his discomfort with the way that Adventist teachers referred to the Holy Spirit as "it," instead of "he."  When "Desire of Ages" was published, Lacey mentioned the expression "third person of the Godhead" on page 671, in reference to the Holy Spirit.  This in a letter he wrote to Elder Froom.  A copy of that letter is in my book. 

Later, in 'Testimonies for the Church, Series B, No 7" on page 63, is this statement by Mrs White. 

"The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fulness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who believe in Christ as a personal Saviour.  There are three living persons in the Heavenly Trio;  in the name of these three great powers - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized;  and these powers will cooperate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ." 

I realized that Mrs White's view HAD CHANGED .  And this after 50 years of ministry to the Church she helped to found. 

I was shaken to my core.  And I realized that I would need to study the Scriptures ONLY, going forward.  Subsequent to that study for another two years, I came to agree with my friend, that our God is TWO, not three.  Father and Son.  

To answer your question:

Mrs White DEFINITELY BELIEVED that Jesus Christ COULD HAVE SINNED against His Father, and subsequently have died forever.   His temptations were of a much greater magnitude than ours.   It was the Father's will that His Son be whipped and crucified, and treated as one cursed.    Would the Son submit His own will, to that of His Father?   The submission of Christ, "Not My will, but Thine be done,"  clearly demonstrates TWO SEPARATE WILLS.   

 

[Gustave]

Wanting to live isn't a moral deficiency , while sinning IS. 

Jesus was ONE PERSON with two natures that were perfectly united. 

I take it by your answer you definitely believe Jesus "could have sinned & lost His salvation". 

 

[8thdaypriest]

I believe that God's Son was "begotten" long before anything was "created."  

I believe that God (the Father) "beget" from out of Himself, a second divine being/person (Proverbs 8:24-30 ).  The Father called this second person "My Son."  This was "the beginning" (John 1:1-3).  

I believe that God (the Father) "is spirit" (John 4).   And has always been "spirit."   

Ephesians 4:6 "one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (NKJ)

Before He was incarnated into human flesh and nature, God's Son was "spirit" like His Father.   He was "the express image" of His Father.   

When He was incarnated, He was emptied of divine powers.  He had to live as a man, and overcome as a man, to fulfill the terms of the covenants, in order to recover "the land" and dominion over the earth FOR mankind.   In this fully human state, Christ COULD HAVE sinned.  

But He was fully indwelt by His Father.   The Son of God granted permission for that indwelling, before He was incarnated.  

I worship TWO divine beings:  God the Father and His Son.  

There IS NO COMMAND and no example, that we are to worship the Holy Spirit AS A THIRD divine person. 

Paul opened every letter "from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."  I don't believe he just forgot to mention the 3rd divine person, 13 times. 

In the Revelation 5:13, "Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, singing, 'To the one seated on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!" (Rev 5:13 NRS)

At the very end of the Revelation, "God and the Lamb" ARE the Temple of the New Jerusalem.  Why would John need to put the "and" into that description, IF "the Son of God," was not really a "son" at all, but rather one co-equal, co-eternal (always existent) member of a 3-fold "Godhead" [divinity]?    

God the Father is omnipresent.  He IS the Holy Spirit.  

God's Son "was made a life-giving spirit" (1Cor 15:45).   This happened when Christ was "glorified" at Pentecost.

"God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"
 (NKJ)

Jesus IS the Comforter with us always.  

 

[8thdaypriest]

Hope I explained clearly enough, what I believe.

Rachel Cory

[Gustave]

Form my clarification and understanding:

1. You believe God (The Father) was / is "a spirit"

2. You believe at some point in the extreme remote past that God exuded another divine Spirit / Person who prior to that act - didn't have an individual identity? 

3. You believe that there are two divine "Beings" (God and His begotten Son). 

4. You believe that the Incarnation resulted in the begotten Being operating on planet earth "as a man" with the caveat that God dwelled "in him". 

5. You believe that because the begotten of God was "a man" he was capable of sinning like any other man. 

 

Do I understand what you're saying? 

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Hi Gustave.

There's a verse that says Levi (in the loins of Abraham) paid tithe.   It's possible that God's "Son" existed within the Father, prior to "the beginning," when He was begotten as a separate person/being.   

Yes.  I believe God's Son had to be a separate being/person, in order to incarnate into human flesh and nature.  

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. (Heb 2:16 KJV)

And I do believe that Christ COULD HAVE chosen to refuse the Father's will for Him.   But I think we underestimate the effect of the full indwelling.   He was "tempted [tested] in all points like as we are."   But His temptations were more powerful.  On the cross, He was tormented in mind by Satan and his demons, while at the same time suffering horrible physical pain.   He was separated from the Father, because He was actually made a curse.  The Father separated from Christ, treating His own son as a lost cursed person.  This is what actually caused His heart to rupture.  

  Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole." (NIV)

The TORAH said that when an Israelite took something for himself, something that God said was "cursed," that Israelite brought "the curse" upon himself.  Example:  Saul keeping Agag as a trophy.  Example:  Achen.   

Those who sin become "cursed" in the sight of God.  The word translated as "cursed" means "doomed to destruction" or "devoted to destruction" (as a sacrifice).  Christ embraced mankind (cursed sinners) for Himself.  According to TORAH that meant that He brought our "curse" upon Himself.  

Christ KNEW this was "the cup" He would have to drink.  He could have refused.