Did Christ raise Himself from death?

[8thdaypriest]

Yeshua DID NOT raise Himself from death, any more than Lazarus did.  

Romans 10:9 “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;” (NAS)

    1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,” (NAS)

    Galatians 1:1 “Paul, an apostle (not sent from men, nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),” (NAS)

    Romans 6:4 “Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4 NAS)

    Romans 8:11 “But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.” (NAS)

    1 Thessalonians 1:10 “and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come.” (NAS)
 

[Gustave]

God (which includes Christ), raised Christ from the dead. 

This is why Scripture states that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all participated in the Resurrection. 

John 2, 18 - 19.

John 10, 18 (God the Son)

Romans 8, 11 (God The Holy Spirit)

Acts 13, 30 (God the Father)

The Trinity is ONE SUBSTANCE - it's not three of the same substance in 3 Persons, it's ONE Spiritual Substance. 

 

[8thdaypriest]

On 12/25/2023 at 9:47 PM, Gustave said:

God (which includes Christ), raised Christ from the dead. 

This is why Scripture states that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all participated in the Resurrection. 

John 2, 18 - 19.

John 10, 18 (God the Son)

Romans 8, 11 (God The Holy Spirit)

Acts 13, 30 (God the Father)

The Trinity is ONE SUBSTANCE - it's not three of the same substance in 3 Persons, it's ONE Spiritual Substance. 

 

Paul says that God the Father raised His Son from death.  

If God the Father is "above all, and through all," that makes HIM "spirit."   The Father and the Spirit are not two divine "persons."  God the Father IS SPIRIT.  He is omnipresent.  He is everywhere.  He is "through all."

Ephesians 4:6 "one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (NKJ)

Just as Jesus said, "God IS spirit"  (John cpt 4).  

The Father is not confined to a throne in Heaven.   HE is everywhere.

   

[Gustave]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:55 AM, 8thdaypriest said:

Paul says that God the Father raised His Son from death.  

If God the Father is "above all, and through all," that makes HIM "spirit."   The Father and the Spirit are not two divine "persons."  God the Father IS SPIRIT.  He is omnipresent.  He is everywhere.  He is "through all."

Ephesians 4:6 "one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (NKJ)

Just as Jesus said, "God IS spirit"  (John cpt 4).  

The Father is not confined to a throne in Heaven.   HE is everywhere.

   

Matthew 28, 19-20.

God became man without ceasing to be God. 

Christ is through / in all. 

"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

Like I said, the Bible says that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all raised Christ and that makes sense given Christian worship ONE God who is Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

The more I participate in conversations like this the more utterly convinced I am that the Trinity Doctrine is absolutely the most important Christian Doctrine. 

[8thdaypriest]

On 12/27/2023 at 1:55 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

God (which includes Christ), raised Christ from the dead. 

This is why Scripture states that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all participated in the Resurrection. 

John 2, 18 - 19.

John 10, 18 (God the Son)

Romans 8, 11 (God The Holy Spirit)

Acts 13, 30 (God the Father)

John 2:18 So the Jews answered and said to Him, "What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?" 19 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. "

John 10:18 "No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father." (NET)

Romans 8:11 "If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you." (NRS)

QUESTION:  Who raised Jesus from the dead?  ANSWER:  God His Father.  

QUESTION:  So, Who's "spirit" "dwells in you?"  ANSWER:  God the Father's spirit.  

"Jesus answered and said to him, 'If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.'"   (John 14:23)   No THIRD divine person mentioned here.  Just the Father and the Son.  

 

[8thdaypriest]

On 12/29/2023 at 7:53 AM, Gustave said:

"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

1Cor 15:45  "The last Adam has been made a life giving spirit."    

This is Christ.  He has been made "spirit."  

This is HOW He can be "in all."  

Galatians 4:6 "And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, 'Abba! Father!'" 

According to John the Baptist, it is Christ Himself who baptizes us with the Spirit.

[Quoting John the Baptist]  "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." 

(Matthew 3:11-12, Mark 1:7-8, Luke 3:16, John 7:33 and 39).

This He can do BECAUSE the Father has given His spirit without measure, TO His own begotten Son.  

[8thdaypriest]

Show me a verse/passage which says I am to pray to, ask of, praise, glorify, thank, or in any other way "worship" specifically "the Spirit" in addition to "the Father" and "the Son."  

[Gustave]

John 14, read that Chapter over a couple of times -  slowly. The light bulb should flip on. 

[8thdaypriest]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:57 AM, Gustave said:

John 14, read that Chapter over a couple of times -  slowly. The light bulb should flip on. 

I have read over John Chapter 14 hundreds of times.  

NKJ  John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.

2 "In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

4 "And where I go you know, and the way you know." 5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?" 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him." 8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say,`Show us the Father '?

10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. 12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 "And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 "If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

So far, only TWO beings - God the Father and His Son.

15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- 17 "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

OK.  God the Father is going to GIVE "another Helper" to the disciples.   He's called "the Spirit of truth."  The disciples know this person because He presently (at that time) "dwells with you."  In the future this comforter Spirit  would be "in you." 

Jesus dwelt WITH the disciples at that time.  They "knew" Him.    

In future Jesus would be "in" them.  

This helper would remain with them "forever."  Hmmmm.  Jesus said, "I will come to you."  Right there in the John 14 passage!!  Jesus said, "I am with you always."  Right?

So how is this "Helper"  DIFFERENT from Jesus?  Answer:  He's Spirit, rather than flesh. 

But think about it.  Paul wrote:  "The last Adam has been made a life-giving Spirit."  (1Cor 15:45).  THAT's JESUS!  Jesus has been made Spirit.  The Spirit Comforter IS the risen, glorified Son of God.   Galatians 4 says, "God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son."    

John 14:19 "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 "At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

John 14:22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" 23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,  and We will come to him and make Our home with him. "

I see ONLY TWO persons, who will come to the obedient believer - Christ and His Father.  BOTH will come to dwell IN the believer.  I don't see a THIRD divine person here.

14:24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.  25 "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."

 

THIS is the place!  Teachers used THIS VERSE "the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name," to teach a THIRD divine person.  But Christ spoke of HIMSELF, more than once, in THIRD PERSON, when referring to His future glorified SELF.  Of course the Father would "send" or "give" this Spirit comforter.  Jesus could not make Himself into a life-giving Spirit.  

 

14:27 "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 "You have heard Me say to you,` I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said,`I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I. 29 "And now I have told you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe. 30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me. 31 "But that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave Me commandment, so I do. Arise, let us go from here. "

"God" is TWO divine persons.  1. The Father who beget a Son and 2.  The "begotten" Son.  

[8thdaypriest]

My commentary on John Chapter 14 is long, but just read it slowly.