The incarnation

[Leroy Myers]

I realize that the nature of Christ and the incarnation are a hotbed of disagreement among many. But I would like to suggest what I think are some new points of view. Ellen says that each time we delve into this subject we can come away with treasure. I know these are not exactly her words but they carry the gist of it. Let me start by asking some questions and giving some thoughts and scripture.

Jesus humanity:

Romans 1:3 He was of the seed of David according to the flesh. 

Romans 8:3 He had sinful flesh just as we do which he overcame.

It would have been an almost infinite humiliation for the Son of God to take man's nature, even when Adam stood in his innocence in Eden. But Jesus accepted humanity when the race had been weakened by four thousand years of sin. Like every child of Adam He accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity. What these results were is shown in the history of His earthly ancestors. He came with such a heredity to share our sorrows and temptations, and to give us the example of a sinless life. DA 48.6

The Sinless One must feel the shame of sin. The peace lover must dwell with strife, the truth must abide with falsehood, purity with vileness. Every sin, every discord, every defiling lust that transgression had brought, was torture to His spirit. DA 111.4

Some thoughts: 

Does the seed of David imply a direct genetic lineage to David? Did the genetic material from which he developed came from Mary's ovary? Didn't he developed in the womb just as you or I. Wasn't he delivered just as you or I. I used to believe that somehow God turned His Son into a human embryo and placed him in Mary's womb. But if that was true then his human flesh came from a different source than ours. And he would have no direct bloodline to David or Adam.

Man's need of God and God's Gift:

Genesis 3:15 and John 3:16 are promises that the Son of God would be given to us that we might over comb. The description of the fallen human nature in the Bible paints a very grim picture. Basically that we hate God, we cannot please God and that we are at war with God. That being the case how could our first parents find their way back to God with these effects upon their person? As soon as there was sin there was a Savior. I believe that these two promises in scripture will fulfilled in Eden. Otherwise it was impossible for Adam and Eve to have believed and trusted in God. They did not have the capacity any longer. Something truly died in Eden that day. It says that the Son of God was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. In the plan of redemption he covenanted to give up all that he was, all the prerogatives of God and become a helpless dependent suppliant upon the Father for knowledge wisdom and strength. Although He accepted the weakness of fallen humanity he did bring some gifts with him into the human agent. He brought a love for the Father and a willingness to obey the Father. He could hear the Father speaking and he could reach out to the Father in heartfelt longing. I am left with no other conclusion than to believe that the Son of God took up residence within Adam and Eve to replace that which they had lost. If they were quiet and listened they could hear what the Father was saying to them through the indwelling son. They could also vicariously participate in the Son's longing and reaching out to the Father in prayer. They could also participate in the love that the son had for the Father and he would give to them his obedience if they would consent to allow him to do so.

Looking down through the ages I believe that the Godhead singled out the son of Mary knowing that he would be faithful to lay down his life and allow the Son to have full control. By doing so he would give an example of what it was to have the redeeming Savior living and moving inside of humanity. He would demonstrate that the fallen nature must die, it could not be fixed. Every day of his life Jesus faced crosses until he was finally led to the literal physical cross which extinguished the life handed down from Adam. 

The incarnation:

Please correct me if I'm wrong. The Son of God came to life in the son of Mary. He was the promised seed and throughout the life of Jesus that seed grew into a mighty tree within Mary's son. 

I believe that the marriage union and the pro creative act are the premier examples of the plan of redemption and our union with God. The scriptures talk about the two becoming one. It also says that we are the bride of Christ and I believe that this is the marriage of the lamb. Humanity and divinity combined. Since we are living on borrowed time and we have no life of our own because it died in Eden we are promised to have the life of the Son which is eternal.

The believer is brought to a place where they see their wretchedness and yet they stand naked and unashamed before the Father and as He looks at the needy soul and says, "Thou art all fair my beloved, I see no spot in thee." In that intimate moment with the Father the Seed is awakened and begins to move and grow. Again and again because God is in the life the believer sees more and more of the depth of the depravity of the fallen nature, and again and again the Father puts life into the soul and the Son grows more and more until the believer comes to the full stature of the Son of God.

In the procreative at the mother supplies genetic material that is fully mommy. Then the father provides genetic material that is fully daddy. When the sperm and egg unite the genetic material blends together to create a totally new creature. The child is not fully mommy and fully daddy but mommy and daddy combined. The two have literally and actually become one in this new child. So it is with the incarnation. We, the bride, supply the human nature and the Father gives us His Son with his divine nature and the two are blended together into one new creature. Humanity and divinity combined.

And this is the record that God has given us eternal life and this life is in His Son he who has the Son has life..."1John 5:11,12

It appears to me that the plan of redemption requires our union with the Son with ties that are never to be broken. In other words the Son sacrificed His life to be our life forever. He will live within the body of the redeemed from the Earth. That is why we are called the body of Christ. We are literally and physically His human body and Jesus is the head of that body which the Son will dwell in and animate throughout eternity. In Him we live and move and find our being and I believe that in us He lives and moves and expresses His being. It was an eternal sacrifice and the Father sacrificed His Son in giving Him to humanity. That is why it was such a struggle to give Him up. The only place that He will ever see His Son again is when he looks into the eyes of the redeemed. Every soul can and will express something different about the son of God. Just like the many facets on a gemstone reflect the light in different ways. I believe that is why God does not want to lose a single soul because some aspect of the Son's nature and character will be lost forever. At least this is what I have come to believe. The thought of it expressed to me how huge of a sacrifice the Father and Son made to redeem humanity. It's much bigger than I had ever seen it before.

The Lord’s body—God is seeking to make His church the continued incarnation of Christ.PCL 23

Not just Jesus but every member is to be a part of the incarnation, humanity and divinity combined.

Was the human nature of the son of Mary changed into the divine nature of the Son of God? No; the two natures were mysteriously blended in one person—the man Christ Jesus. (she writes that there were 2 individuals, Jesus and the Son of God) In Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead. When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible. Christ, the sinless One, will save every son and daughter of Adam who accepts the salvation proffered them, consenting to become the children of God. The Saviour has purchased the fallen race with His own blood. LHU 76. (You cannot kill God)

[Gustave]

Quote

Romans 8:3 He had sinful flesh just as we do which he overcame.

You need to read that again, the text says "in the LIKENESS  (not in or of) sinful flesh". 

Scripture says that Jesus was like us in all ways except in sin. 

This proclivity to insist that Jesus had sinful flesh flows from Arianism which emphasized (and still does) that Jesus wasn't God. Read Luke 1, 35 and Isaiah 35, 4 and realize Jesus was God manifest. The Son of God did not come to earth to vindicate God's law - the Son of God came to destroy the works of the Devil. 

[Gregory Matthews]

Gustave has correctly presented the SDA view on this issue.  The 1980 SDA Bible Commentary points out that Romans 8:3, has a reference to the human form in which Christ lived on Earth.  As Gustave says it was a "Likeness."   I suppose one could say that during His time living on Earth, His divinity was veiled in His humanity.  But, saying such would not be saying that he had actual sinful flesh.

It is well-known that in the early days of the development of the SDA denomination various understandings of the nature of Christ existed.  Some were of some form of Arianism.  Other views, while not being orthodox, were probably not really Arian.  The actuality of what was believed and held, and by whom, is a subject for debate by SDA scholars today.  In some cases, better understanding of those people is learned from those studies. 

In any case, individual people exist within the SDA Church today that hold some view of the nature of Christ that is not orthodox, and may in some manner have an Arian connection.  Regardless, the orthodox view should be considered to be the SDA View.

[Gregory Matthews]

As a human being, I find it very hard, and possibly impossible, to understand something that is outside of and beyond my human experience.  Really, how can any human understand something that the human has not only never experienced and will never experience in their human life.  

I have taken a course in quantum mechanics.  I think that I have gained a limited understanding of it as I have been able to correlate some aspects of it to what I have experienced in life.  But there are other aspects of it that I simply do not understand, as I cannot relate them to anything in my human life that I have experienced.  

In my younger years, I had developed a model that I used in attempting to explain the nature of the Godhead.  It worked well, I thought.  In my later years, I have come to understand that my model explanation was false.  I presently have a newer model that I consider to better represent truth.  But I recognize that as a human model, it is limited, and I may need to revise it again as I gain a better understanding. 

[Gustave]

It's just my humble opinion but I think that even the angels and Saints in heaven are unable to fathom God. There would seem to an infinite distance between the finite (everything other than God) and infinite (God). All we can know is that God is ONE and God is the Divine Attributes Sacred Scripture attributes to God. We're told its a great mystery and I'm certain it absolutely is.