The church administration and social media

[Joe Knapp]

Social Medea is not new. Criticism of the church in social media is not new.

But things have changed. With the new algorithms, and small voice may be amplified.  Let's talk YouTube for example. With this recent controversy about Dr. Vine and the Village church, was fueled by YouTube, in my opinion.

When I watched one or two videos on this topic, I did not realize what would happen. Even though my YouTube history is turned off, I see many videos pop up in my feed about this. Even very small channels who have made a video on this show up. I am sure many people like me clicked on these videos out of curiosity, feeding the algorithm even more.

In the future, especially in Michigan, it is going to be difficult for the leadership to operate when any unhappy members can post open criticism of their decisions.

In the past, I have been opposed to MANY decisions made by the Michigan Conference leadership.  But there is a place for such criticism. And it is not YouTube.  This is not a healthy thing to air all the dirty laundry for the WHOLE planet to see.

[Theophilus]

Thanks for saying this!! The Vine Kelly thing is everywhere I look. On Spectrum A today Fulcrum 7 --other things are more or less pushed aside.

Stuff like this is no better that something worldly taking up all of your time. Its almost becoming an obsession. We are supposed to be working on souls, but as you said, airing our dirty laundry does no good, and just makes angry folk angrier.

I posted about this problem on one of the magazines yesterday. I bet I get blasted. Nice to know someone else feels the same.

[phkrause]

On 1/11/2025 at 5:03 AM, Joe Knapp said:

was fueled by YouTube, in my opinion

Really? Are you actually blaming YouTube for this?? Personally I would be blaming the individuals that are responsible not YouTube. Sure they are using YouTube to air there dirty laundry as you say. But it could've been anyone of the different Social platforms, etc. I don't waste my time watching this stuff. I wont say that I'm not tempted to check it out, but every time I'm ready to click on the link that people send me I get a message in my mind that says "NO!"

[Joe Knapp]

 

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Really? Are you actually blaming YouTube for this??

I think the YouTube algorithm is designed to promote controversy or gossip.  I could be wrong, but this is my observation.

This is why I think it is so wrong to air grievances there.

[phkrause]

1 hour ago, Joe Knapp said:

This is why I think it is so wrong to air grievances there.

Oh I agree that we shouldn't air our grievances on YouTube or any other platform!!

[Gustave]

Due to interest I did some googling and you tubing this morning about this pastor - does this issue stem from this man's disagreement with how his conference participated in the covid mandates? 

[Gregory Matthews]

I think that there are probably aspects of thils situation that lie below the surface, and therefore are not being addressed.  IOW, I will suggest that it is more complex that it appears to be on the surface.  The MIchigan Conference has some unique aspects in its administration that are not typical for a Local Conference.  I have not published some of what I know due to the fact that I am probably not fully informed and I do not believe any comments that I might make would be helpful.

[Joe Knapp]

Over the years, this forum has been a place where people discussed this in detail. The divorce of Danny Shelton was a very hot topic.

But there was a limited audience for that discussion.

But now with Youtube and a growing worldwide church, I think it is better to be cautious.

Even though I think leadership in various parts of the church may be a problem, I think open criticism is a much bigger problem.

Additionally, there are cultures around the world who may misunderstand the issues presented on places like YT.

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does this issue stem from this man's disagreement with how his conference participated in the covid mandates? 

I think one of the issues is the individualistic nature of Americans.  Some of the people involved are operating on their own and pushing boundaries.

This is not tolerated in Asia. Many cultures are more collective and less individualistic. 

This kind of drama can cause division it the church.

There are always going to be disagreements in leadership, but I don't think it is responsible to display these disagreements.

The people involved feel, so strongly, that are right, therefore have taken this case to public opinion.  That is not biblical.

But we are is a giant fishbowl now. Because of this, I think we need to be very careful.

[Live4Him]

The church, and indeed Protestantism as well as God's government are based on individual choice. The Michigan conference has no authority to censure or discipline members nor to state that we support vaccinations. That is an individual choice. The church board does not even have that authority to censure or remove members. Here is a quote from the church manual.

 

"At a Properly Called Meeting—Members may be disciplined for
sufficient cause, but only at a properly called business meeting (see p. 135)
after the church board has reviewed the case. The meeting must be presided
over by an ordained pastor, or licensed pastor who is ordained as a local elder
of the church concerned, or, in the pastor’s absence and in counsel with the
pastor or with the conference president, an elder of the local church.
By Majority Vote—Members may be removed from membership or
otherwise disciplined only by a majority vote of members present and voting
at a duly called meeting. “The majority of the church is a power which should
control its individual members.”—5T 107.
Church Board Cannot Remove Members—The board may
recommend to a business meeting the removal of members, but under no
circumstance does the board have the right to take final action, except to
record removal at death or at the member’s request. (See pp. 61, 72, 87."

The conference in recent years has become more and more like the papacy...no the church isn't Babylon but we are told there will be, two distinct groups that form in the church, that the most danger spiritually to us will be fellow church members and that the church appears to fall but does not. Many of our leaders are unconverted and even evil men but it was like that in Jesus day too. It is best to be aware of the evil but not dwell on it. Dwell on good things and spread the Good News to your friends. Concentrate on your relationship with God and make sure you are ready for Him to come. The evil, unconverted people as well as leaders, will be shaken out. To me seeing how our conference leaders condone homosexual pastors by their silence is very disturbing. Their excuse is "we can't do anything about it, that is up to the local church." But then they turn around and act like dictators with Conrad Vine and others. It's a double standard. But then I realize it is like the days of Lot. It's just something that has to happen. I don't watch to much of the clickbait stuff, just enough to be aware of what is happening. We are approaching the last great struggle and ex Adventists that were shaken out will be our greatest accusers all over social media. There is going to be waaaay more bad publicity for the church than there is at the present. 

"I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people" EW 270

 

This is going to be a PR nightmare but it has to happen. God's people at some point will stand up and say, "enough apostasy" and will start bringing out the truth.  I believe it is starting now. The only way to combat it is to live a good Christina life in Christ and show others our love and care for them. God will bring His faithful ones through!

 

[Gregory Matthews]

The SDA Church Manual is generally revised following each meeting of the General Conference, which occurs typically each five years. [NOTE:  An exception iss the on s scheduled for 2025.]  The quotation above does not occur on the edition that I am looking at, on the pages cited..  When citing the Church Manual  one should always give the copyright date.  If current, the citation will then include any changes made.

It should also be noted that the Church Manual gives general advice.  Congregations are often not required to follow that advice.  A failure to follow the advice  does  not negate the action.  I have often been a member of a SDA congregation that did not follow that advice.

[Joe Knapp]

On 3/4/2025 at 12:25 AM, Live4Him said:

The Michigan conference has no authority to censure or discipline members nor to state that we support vaccinations.

They are not doing that, to the best of my knowledge.

What they have done to Pastor Vine, and to me on a smaller scale, was to ban him from preaching in their churches. 

People who they do not agree with, they try to censor them. But, as Pastor Vine has reported, it only gets him more invites.

About vaccinations, it is not the conference, but the GC who is endorsing Vaccines.  This is why so many people support Pastor Vine. His position is:

1) the church should not take a stand on vaccines. It is a religious liberty individual question.

2) The GC vaccine statements (there are 2) posted on the GC website are in violation of the GC by laws. Only issues that the membership has voted on in a GC session are official policy.

3) By posting these statements as official policy on the GC website, many have been fired for refusing to take the Covid shots. He believes that must be corrected and an apology issued.