Pastor Conrad Vine on money

[Joe Knapp]

Last Sabbath, Pastor Vine (Now an Independent), had a strong sermon on the income of Government money to the church. He also detailed a large amount of money that the health care system contributes to the NAD.  He also revealed that church leaders receive money in addition to their salary to be on these non-profit boards. Sometimes significant amounts.

This video is on @BroLawrence YT channel.  I can tell you, this will be shocking to the members in developing nations.

I expect more online discussion of these topics in the coming months.

 

[hobie]

Here is the video when Conrad Vine came to our church and we were happy to have him...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjCi1xb32zw

Then people from Conrad Vine contacted us and told our church to take the videos down, as they had to "edit" them. I did not post the Sabbath sermon as Conrad Vine said and did things that went a bit too far in my estimation. I questioned him on this issue in the afternoon question and answer session which we did not broadcast at his request, and he did not answer it, which seemed odd to me at the time. My question was what he thought of the 'New World Order' that was forming around the United States leadership which I felt was the rising of the 'Image of the Beast', and the second part, did he feel the "Shaking of Adventism" was happening with the attacks on the church from within by Adventist who were rebelling against the church, and causing others to leave the church, he didnt answer.

 

Now, Conrad Vine just kept coming up with more issues and it began to dawn on me he is just pushing to start a internal division with conflict...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb9VzDAz4og&t=22s

Here is what I posted on this type of issue years ago, on one of the main European Conference leaders, LR Conradi, who basically turned against Ellen Whites counsels early in the 1900's because he didnt like her health message...

Then more on L. R. Conradi....

"Not only in Germany, but also in other European countries, the SDA leadership issued declarations (which we are not quoting here for lack of space) instructing the church members to take a combatant part in the war. These writings brought much confusion in the churches. Thousands of SDA's in Europe were thrown into great trial and perplexity, as, to avoid persecution and possible death, they saw no other way than to give up Sabbathkeeping, bear arms, and do as other patriots were doing. The majority acted in accordance with the decisions of their leaders. (Read 10 BC 1183.)

It was only a small minority who had the faith and courage to reject the position of the leading brethren who had decided that it was the duty of each one to obey the requirements of the government even to the point of bearing arms and violating the Sabbath. Those who stood for truth and righteousness at this time were faithful members of the church and had no idea of the role they were playing in the work of the prophesied reformation. The attitude they took, however, was out of harmony with the decision of the leaders, who, in their blind zeal to maintain the favor of the church with the government, expelled those who had the moral courage to oppose their decision. The persecution and tribulation which followed as the result of this attitude is part of denominational history.

A newspaper correspondent gave his unbiased opinion of the situation as follows:
"Since the beginning of the war there has been a division among the Adventist people. During the duration of the war, the majority wanted to see the fundamental teachings set aside, by force if necessary. The others asked that the sanctification of Saturday (Sabbath) be allowed them, even in these times of stress. The opposing faction finally brought about the disfellowshipment from the Organization of the followers of the original principles of faith."Koelnische Zeitung (Evening Edition) September 21, 1915.

In a circular letter entitled "The European Situation," Elder C.H. Watson gave the following explanation:
"There was in Germany and those other countries concerned a minority of our believers who refused to follow the leadership of Conradi and others into combatant participation in the war.
"These were subjected to much suffering at the hands of their Governments because of their stand.
"In Germany, those who took their stand against Conradi's wicked action in thus committing them to war were treated with great harshness by Conradi and his associates. The resistance of the minority to military service threatened to compromise the whole body of Adventists in the eyes of the German Government; and to avoid this, Conradi had the minority disfellowshiped from the Church.
"Thus the noncombatant minority was forced out of the church in that country, and this separation continued throughout the war years.
'When this state of affairs became known to the General Conference leaders, it created deep concern in their hearts, and led to their sending W.A. Spicer to Germany at a time when the German submarine peril was extremely grave. Brother Spicer took his life in his hands in order to get first hand information on that situation.

"The result of that visit was that the General Conference became possessed of first hand information regarding:
a) "The wrong done to these minority believers.
b) "The division and strife which had resulted among our German members.
c) "The development of bitterness in both groups, and especially in those wronged by Conradi.
d) "The extreme views to which these groups were driving each other in their difference."

While Conradi was a leader of the SDA Church, he was whitewashed and defended even by the General Conference representatives: now that he left the SDA's some leaders began to admit what they should have admitted at the beginning of the trouble (1914-1920)"

http://www.sdarm.org/pub_data/gws/gws_13.html

L.R. Conradi rejected good counsel and was wrong in what he did and had shown this tendency long before WWI and after. This caused many true believers to form the reformed movement that actually were correct in their stance on the war and the pillars of Adventism. L. R. Conradi led the european church in a terrible direction, against what the church held and against Ellen White, which has affected that part of the church to this day. Here is a little background:
Louis R. Conradi, 1856-1939, was leader of SDA work in Europe but he caused damage which was not apperant in the begining. "...In 1910 a missionary to the Turkish mission, Z. G. Baharian informed W. C. White and W. A. Spicer of increasing doubts concerning the spirit of prophecy. These doubts, according to Baharian, came largely from L. R. Conradi.

1919 Seventh-day Adventist Bible Conference

Baharian traced the roots of the differing positions to about 1898 when the question of health reform began to be introduced to Europe. He directly broached the question of the spirit of prophecy in a council meeting in Constantinople in October, 1910, at which Conradi was present. According to Baharian, Conradi spent some time seeking to prove that the Ellen White writings could be divided according to varying degrees of inspiration, consisting largely of two parts: testimonies which were largely revelations from God and other works that, while the subject matter was guided by the Holy Spirit, the content could contain errors and Conradi affirmed that he himself had corrected some of these "errors."..." With Conradi leading them from believing in the work of Ellen White, he did much damage which to this day still lingers. But the story gets worse.

The leadership of the Adventist church in Germany with Conradi leading them persecuted and reported any Adventist who would not support the war effort for the Kaiser in World War I. They went after any Adventist who stood up for the Sabbath or refused to enter the army and reported Adventist to the government. After the war the General Conference sent Spicer to check on what had occured but Conradi was not taken out and the results showed itself when Nazism again lured many Adventist in Germany a few years later.

During the rise of the Nazi Party, the Seventh-day Adventist church in Germany and Austria, was described as "a small sect which bent over backwards to accomodate National Socialism." (Ian Kershaw, "Hitler" a biography in two volumes. Vil.1, p 541)

The support by the Adventist church in Germany of Hitler is well documented and in 2005 the Austrian, North German, South German Union Conferences, published an apology for their actions during Hitler's era, which included urging young Seventh-day Adventist men to serve in the German army, even saying that it was dishonorable not to serve. There were brave Adventist youths who refused to violate their consciences and were executed by the Nazis.

Here is from the Adventist Review...

". In Europe, however, during the era of the two world wars, noncombatancy as a normative ideal suffered irreparable damage.

As World War I neared, Germany had the largest Adventist membership of any European nation. Ludwig R. Conradi, who played a major role in establishing Adventism in Europe, led the German church. Drawing on Ellen White's favorable comments from Basel in 1886 about Adventist participation in military drill exercises, Conradi basically repudiated noncombatancy. Under his leadership, the German church took the position that during wartime, Adventist draftees would not only bear arms, but also not make an issue of Sabbath observance. Conradi insisted only on Sabbath keeping by Adventist military personnel during peacetime.34

The General Conference condemned the German course after World War I, though Conradi argued that he was only following guidelines given him by church leaders. At a meeting in Gland, Switzerland, in 1923, European church administrators agreed upon a statement close to the American position, affirming that Adventists should refuse all combatant service as well as any non-humanitarian Sabbath work. The German church leaders admitted they had erred....."

Adventist Review: BETWEEN PACIFISM AND PATRIOTISM

[Joe Knapp]

22 hours ago, hobie said:

did not post the Sabbath sermon as Conrad Vine said and did things that went a bit too far in my estimation.....he didnt answer.

Those were excellent questions. I would also like to know his views on them. 

Quote

Now, Conrad Vine just kept coming up with more issues and it began to dawn on me he is just pushing to start a internal division with conflict...

Prior to GC 2025, I think his issues were more relevant.  But now, it is though he is just a troublemaker. 

In the GC 2025, the church made a major change. Historic change. So the proper thing to do now, is to keep quiet. Give them time to formulate their policies and make changes. 

I have seen many on YouTube criticizing.  I don't think this is helpful.