Problems In The White Community

[Dr. Shane]

• Church attendance (53% Americans, 16% UK, 14% France, 13% Germany)
• Pre-marital sex
• Abortions
• Homosexuality
• Secular entertainment
• Poor diet
• Seditary lifestyle
• Drunk driving
• Domestic violence

• Alcoholism

That's a start.

[bevin]

Why do you think poor church attendance is a problem? Maybe it just shows an accurate assessment of how useful attending church is!

Why do you think homosexuality is a problem? Is there any evidence at all that its incidence today is higher than in the past or in other groups today?

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

Where two or three are gathered together in His name, there He is also. The "church" was in a very poor state during the time Christ was on earth and He set us an example by not avoiding it. Lack of church attendance allows the mind to wonder further from the things of God much easier.

While some studies have shown an increase in lesbianism over the past two decades, there is no evidence to show male homosexuality increasing. Of course the problem isn't the behavior which has always existed in the white community. The problem is the acceptance of the behavior. I am not saying we should go back to the days when gays were hated. Neither extreame is desirable. However a society with Christian love would treat homosexuals like it treats alcoholics - with love by helping them find freedom from the thorn in their flesh.

But here we have an example of "white denial". I list a few problems in the white community and a white man comes in and insists they are not problems.

[Woody]

Where is this example of a white person insisting they are not a problem.? I can't find that which you are referring to.

[Bravus]

It's an interesting logical tactic, that one, but very open to abuse. Say I add to your list 'liking classical music'. If someone (there are a number of confessed classical music addicts on this forum) says "I don't see that as a problem", is that also an example of white denial? It's pretty clear that 'problems' are things open to definition... and bevin's question was about definitions. I agree that most of those things are problems experienced by white people, but by no means exclusively so, so it's probably more sensible and defensible to say they are 'human problems'.

[Dr. Shane]

Well, I don't know if there are any racial groups that have their own set of exclusive problems. However if someone where to say that listening to classical music was a problem with my racial group, rather than denying that it was, I would ask in what way is it a problem. Obviously if we are talking about a racial group that I belong to, I am going to want to understand another person's concern and not just flattly deny it. The question asked here was followed with its own answer and an explanation point.

If someone listening to classical music neglects family or Bible study because of the classical music, then yes, I would agree that is a problem. If it is commonplace within a specific racial group, then it would be a racial issue for that group.

[Dr. Shane]

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Where is this example of a white person insisting they are not a problem.?

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Why do you think poor church attendance is a problem? Maybe it just shows an accurate assessment of how useful attending church is!

I thought other posters would either add to my list of problems or discuss how the church or society might deal with the problems. Since they are such obvious problems, I didn't expect someone to actually deny they are problems.

[Taylor]

Just a comment.....recognizing that there are problems in a race, whether it is your own or someone else's doesn't make you racist. Every single race has problems, just as every country and every society has problems. If by that recognition you do not judge the society but endeavor to understand and help if you can, then I don't think that is racism.

Ya I know...this doesn't go with the last comment posted however, just my 2 cents.

Personally I simply can't understand racism in any form.

[cricket]

I'm just wondering where the white community is...

[Bravus]

I'm not trying to be trite or simplistic: the only answer for human problems, and the subset of them that might be identified as 'white problems' is salvation. Look at that list, and recognise that true acceptance of Jesus and sanctification will solve each of them. Any other solutions are stop-gap.

[Dr. Shane]

In another thread Brother Lazarus said:

Quote:

Its is also important to discuss the state of white America.

So I started the thread to discuss not only white America but Europe and Austrailia too. I am certainly willing to talk about problems we have. Of course, I am not too familiar with the problems of Europe and Austraila so others here will need to contribute. And the sad thing is, I can watch European news casts daily and only tune in about once a month. :sad

[D. Allan]

Quote:

I thought other posters would either add to my list of problems or discuss how the church or society might deal with the problems.

- how to deal with the problems? The best place for us to work on solving problems is to work on solving our own problems, to work on ourselves. We cannot solve anyone else's problems. But if we can improve our own conduct and/or attitudes everybody will benefit from the change in us.

[Dr. Shane]

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I'm not trying to be trite or simplistic: the only answer for human problems... is salvation.

That is pretty simplistic. It reminds me of the street preacher in college that told us the world's problem is sin. True but simplistic.

[John317]

• Homosexuality
  
  This is not any more a problem among whites than among blacks. But I agree with you that it is a problem if we're speaking from the Biblical view.
  
  There is a sense in which it is more condemned publically in the black community than among whites, which have a tendency to condone it nowadays. But all that has done is make black homosexuals and bisexuals hide their behavior more, but it is not any less a part of that community.
  
  What denial and hatred of gays does (at least among some people) is cause them to participate privately in those things but publically to insult and do violent things to them, that is, to treat them with the same indignities, control and violence that many women often have to undergo.

[Woody]

I wish the Homosexuals didn't talk about it so much. I don't care to hear what someones sexual preference is.

As a heterosexual ... I don't go around advertising it. And I don't care to hear others advertising what they do in the privacy of their bedroom.

I really don't care if you are Black, Red or Green. And I don't care if you are Homosexual or Heterosexual. (God cares but I don't want to hear about it or judge it.)

Let's just all be happy with each other. Respect each other. Give Christian Love to each other.

We can let God do the judging and we can let GOD work out the changes in people's lives.

[Dr. Shane]

I shouldn't have listed just the word homosexuality by itself. To be clear, I should have listed, acceptance of homosexuality. As I stated before, I wouldn't want to go back to the days when white society was intolerant of gays.

However today, the problem in white society in regard to gays is their open acceptance of it. White society tells gays they cannot be helped and should live out the gay lifestyle. That is not helpful to the gay people. However that is how Satan wants us - to one extreame or the other.

[Woody]

What I really don't like is the GAY PRIDE parades.

This is what I'm referring to.

I don't care what they do in their bedroom ... just keep it quiet.

You don't see Heterosexual Pride marches do you?

[bevin]

Quote:

To be clear, I should have listed, acceptance of homosexuality. As I stated before, I wouldn't want to go back to the days when white society was intolerant of gays.

Shane wants society to be hypocrits... He doesn't like it accepting homosexuality, but he doesn't want it to be intolerant of it either.

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

Neither extreame is helpful to the gay community. If we are going to live the love of Christ, we need to love the sinner but hate the sin. A balanced approach is like the one used with alcoholics.

[bevin]

I don't see anything on Shane's list that strikes me as a problem specifically of the white community.

Ignoring the debatable issues of church attendance and homosexuality, the rest of the problems can all be described as "poor choices".

The solution that many in the secular world are adopting towards these is a mixture of education and carrot and stick.

When I see Christian churches denigrating all three, it makes me realize just how glad I am that my money is not funding these churches.

Pre-marital sex. The best known solutions involve teaching kids what the actual benefits and risks are, acknowledging that teenagers have strong sexual drives, and recognizing that masturbation is a reasonable and guilt-free solution to those drives. Churches usually go the ignorance-and-guilt route.

Abortions. Birth-control is far cheaper and better. That is why the Catholic Church opposes it. That is why Protestant Christians are opposed to it being taught in schools.

Secular entertainment. Lets admit that some is good and some is bad. Same is true of Christian books and movies and songs.

Poor diet. Why is the SDA church still wasting its time on the irrelevant noise about vegian v vegetarian and coffee, rather than teaching a modern science-based pragmatic diet?

Drunk driving. Where is the strong Christian push for European-level drunk-driving penalties?

Domestic violence. Of course that never happens in christian homes, right... which is why the Christian churches teach male-dominance.

Alcoholism. Ditto - which is why many use alcoholic beverages for communion.

Lastly, I can not drop this topic without slamming the USA fundamentalist Christian churches for their anti-science stance.

No wonder Europeans are rejecting organised Christianity - it is a disgrace to its founder.

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

Many of the problems in the white community in America are being addressed - but are problems nonetheless. These problems are not limitted to the white community but are problems they must deal with.

The emotional consequences of pre-marital sex are not often addressed in public school sex education classes. The danger of STDs is taught in many schools, but not all, and methods of birth control are also taught. The evangelicals that oppose teaching sex education in public school are in the minority of evangelicals. For the most part, evangelicals want abstanance to be taught in addition, not in leui of, the existing sex education programs.

The issue of abortion needs to be in the hands of the people, not the courts. Belgium and the Netherlands have been successful at reducing the number of abortions by discouraging and placing restrictions on it. Here are some worldwide stats.

There is way too much violance and sexual content in secular entertainment. Much of this should be forbidden for broadcast media - sattelite, cable or other. This hardcore programming should be available only on purchased media such as DVDs or downloading from the internet.

Big progress is being made in the area of diet. Supermarkets are now carrying much more high-fiber, low fat foods. Junk food is still an issue although some snack foods are even marketing low-fat, high fiber alternatives.

More needs to be done in America in regard to drunk-driving. Over three times as many Americans are killed at the hands of drunk drivers than were killed in the attacks of 9/11.

Much is being done in regard to domestic violence but access to family counseling needs to be greater. The stigma associated with family counseling needs to be changed too. Health insurance should cover a certain amount of family counseling.

Much progress has been made regarding alcoholism. Health insurance does need to provide for out-patiant treatment of alcoholism at least once every 15 or 20 years and many do.

Of course white society teaches evolution in high schools and colleges. The problem there is that it has been resistant to teaching the errors of the theory or presenting other theories such as intelligent design. However if church attendance was higher, society wouldn't be dependant on unbelieving scientists to teach them about orgins.

[John317]

I shouldn't have listed just the word homosexuality by itself. To be clear, I should have listed, acceptance of homosexuality. As I stated before, I wouldn't want to go back to the days when white society was intolerant of gays.

However today, the problem in white society in regard to gays is their open acceptance of it. White society tells gays they cannot be helped and should live out the gay lifestyle. That is not helpful to the gay people. However that is how Satan wants us - to one extreame or the other.

I believe that secular society should be totally accepting of gays but that the Christian church has an obligation to tell the truth about its being sinful to practice homosexuality. The church should point gay people to Jesus Christ, who has the power to help all of us overcome all known sin in our lives. While condemning the sin of homosexuality, the church should be totally accepting of gay people in the sense of loving them as individuals who need salvation the same as everyone else, and they should always be made to feel welcome to worship with other Christians.

[Woody]

Thank you John 317 .

What you have said is so true.

My wife has gays in her family. They are such loving and fun people to be with. We love them. They have had it rough because of POOR treatment in the SDA church. But, they love the Lord. They just can't love the Lord in the church. What a shame.

WE need to love ALL sinners and like you say ... Hate ALL sin.

Thank you for what you posted.

[bevin]

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Many of the problems in the white community in America are being addressed - but are problems nonetheless. These problems are not limitted to the white community but are problems they must deal with.

Okay - so there was no need to use the word 'white' in the title. These are problems with most subsets of American society.

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The emotional consequences of pre-marital sex are not often addressed in public school sex education classes.

Strongly agree - it is an area where I have spent quality-time with my children.

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The issue of abortion needs to be in the hands of the people, not the courts.

Strongly agree - and that is the way it is today. People get to decide whether they personally want abortions or not. The courts are not stopping people from getting safe abortions.

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There is way too much violance and sexual content in secular entertainment. Much of this should be forbidden for broadcast media - sattelite, cable or other. This hardcore programming should be available only on purchased media such as DVDs or downloading from the internet.

Education - parents need to be educated to control what their children watch on TV.

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Big progress is being made in the area of diet. Supermarkets are now carrying much more high-fiber, low fat foods.

Yes, the combination of scientists and health care activists are having an effect purely through education - no coercion required.

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More needs to be done in America in regard to drunk-driving.

A simple change in the penal code will suffice.

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Much is being done in regard to domestic violence but access to family counseling needs to be greater. The stigma associated with family counseling needs to be changed too.

Counseling is an adult bandaid for a childhood education problem. Better funded education would stop more problems before they became expensive.

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Health insurance should cover a certain amount of family counseling.

Here is a HUGE mistake in the American approach - health care coverage should have NOTHING to do with EMPLOYMENT! Universal health care concentrating on prevention would be cheaper and more effective.

Today the USA spends far more per person on health care than any other country - and by most measures is not even in the top 10 on availability and quality of care.

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Much progress has been made regarding alcoholism.

And, in my ambulance, I see exactly how much further we have to go.

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Of course white society teaches evolution in high schools and colleges. The problem there is that it has been resistant to teaching the errors of the theory or presenting other theories such as intelligent design.

High schools and college science classes teach science. Science is observation, hypothesis, prediction, experimentation, verification.

The fact that many Christian's don't even know what science is is a indictment both the USA education system and of many of the Christian churches.

The courts have correctly ruled that Intelligent Design, as currently formulated, is not science. It does not do the above steps.

But more is involved here than evolution. I watch Christian churches denigrate medical research, teach stupid diet nonsense, fail to do the most rudimentary planning or research, and spend all their time on reiterating cliches without support and directly contradicted by actual evidence.

I also watch the salaries teachers get, and the training they get, and the processes they use. The high-school education system in the USA has huge problems, and the populace as a whole does not appear to want to fix it.

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However if church attendance was higher, society wouldn't be dependant on unbelieving scientists to teach them about orgins.

Correct. We would be back in the dark ages having ignorant priests telling us what to do.

If Christian Churches started to use brains and to address people's needs, attendance would go up.

/Bevin

[John317]

I wish the Homosexuals didn't talk about it so much. I don't care to hear what someones sexual preference is.

As a heterosexual ... I don't go around advertising it. And I don't care to hear others advertising what they do in the privacy of their bedroom.

I really don't care if you are Black, Red or Green. And I don't care if you are Homosexual or Heterosexual. (God cares but I don't want to hear about it or judge it.)

Let's just all be happy with each other. Respect each other. Give Christian Love to each other.

We can let God do the judging and we can let GOD work out the changes in people's lives.

Actually I feel the same way you do. The only reason I write about it on these threads sometimes is that it is part of the subject or maybe someone asks a question about it or makes a statement that calls for some sort of response. If I thought for a moment that I was disturbing anyone, I wouldn't say anything.