Problems In The White Community

[Robert]

Why are white men so intimidated by black men? Its seems like every white man I meet is afraid of a black man.

One word: Attitude

Personally, when I was young and foolish I had my own attitude going. It didn't matter what race you were you weren't going to touch me and get away with it. So when a muscular black guy decided to take me on the last thing I had on my mind was backing down. It didn't go far because the teachers stopped it.

A few weeks later I was over in the recreation center practicing on the bag when this guy walked in. He was a boxer and I did kickboxing. Anyway Johnny asked to go a couple of rounds (with gloves) and we did. Well, the guy was too muscular and I had no problems countering....Short story is he couldn't touch me. We became friends after that.

My attitude then was typical of a lot of young, black men. They "ain't" going to take no junk off anyone. What I had in common with Johnny is we weren't going be smacked around and blacks for many years were mistreated. So it's in the attitude.

The guy being bullied or held down has something to prove. That's why you see so many blacks excel in sports, especially in boxing. That's slowly changing because some whites are feeling inferior.

My point? The guy being mistreated or has perceptions of being mistreated is going to prove himself. In the case of many blacks it’s in the attitude. I guess some white guys fear this, who knows?

Probably doesn't make much sense.

Rob

[bevin]

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Why does the white community produce so many gay men

Before answering why, one has to be sure the measurement is correct.

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Rate of child abuse by race:

...

Asian/Pacific Islanders = 1%

Does every society have the same definition of 'child abuse'?

Look up "Pitcairn Island"

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1151&id=1237872004

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Why is there this need among white in America and across Europe to present themselves as superior.

What do you know about the Japanese and Korean and Chinese view of foreigners?

/Bevin

[Amelia]

Best part of the article ROFL

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Of course, I hardly expect the facts to matter much, as an awful lot of white folks seem impervious to them. When it comes to racial realities, the levels of ignorance are so ingrained as to be almost laughable. Perhaps that's why 12 percent of whites actually say blacks are a majority of the nation's population, and why most whites believe blacks are a third of the nation's population, instead of the thirteen percent they actually represent. We seem to see black people everywhere, and apparently we see them doing quite well.

Apparently, we even see them as our buddies. 75 percent of whites in one recent poll indicated that they had multiple close black friends. Sounds great, until you realize that 75 percent of white Americans represents about 145 million people. 145 million who say they have multiple black friends, despite the fact that there are only 35 million black people to go around.

Which means one of two things: either whites are clueless about black people, friendships, or both; or black folks are mighty damned busy, running from white house to white house to white house, being our friends. In which case, we can put away all that nonsense about blacks "taking our jobs." After all, how could blacks have time to work at all, what with all the backyard barbecues they're attending at the houses of their white pals? Hell, maybe Elvis will even invite them all to Graceland when he makes his triumphant return to Memphis.

[Amelia]

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Why is there this need among white in America and across Europe to present themselves as superior.

What do you know about the Japanese and Korean and Chinese view of foreigners?

Aw come one bevin. The Japanese, Koreans and Chinese might view themselves as superior but they don't go around invading other countries to prove it. They just create superior/cheaper products and invade/takeover the marketplace. LOL

[Amelia]

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I do not think Imperial Japan considered itself to be *white*...

but I could be wrong.

I was thinking of Germany. They actually started WWII before the USA got into it with Japan. Germans are white.

[Bravus]

...although the Japanese had invaded China long before that and started building an empire... You're just talking about when they started attacking white people.

Maybe this is one of the problems in the white community - where the examples are drawn from. There's a pretty ethnocentric focus in many of the ways these problems are being identified.

Still looking for those stats on child abuse by race, but I did discover that low income is a massive predictive factor.

[Bravus]

OK, this is about as definitive as information on this subject gets: from the Third National Incidence Study of child abuse:

"Race. The NIS-3 found no race differences in maltreatment incidence. The NIS-3 reiterates the findings of the earlier national incidence studies in this regard. That is, the NIS-1 and the NIS-2 also found no significant race differences in the incidence of maltreatment or maltreatment-related injuries.

Service providers may find these results somewhat surprising in view of the disproportionate representation of children of color in the child welfare population and in the clientele of other public agencies. However, it should be recognized that the NIS methodology identifies a much broader range of children than those who come to the attention of any one type of service agency or the even smaller subset who receive child protective and other child welfare services. The NIS findings suggest that the different races receive differential attention somewhere during the process of referral, investigation, and service allocation, and that the differential representation of minorities in the child welfare population does not derive from inherent differences in the rates at which they are abused or neglected. It is also important to recognize that while there are no overall race differences in the incidence of child abuse and neglect in the NIS-3 findings, subsequent analyses that simultaneously consider multiple characteristics may reveal race differences in maltreatment incidence among specific subsets of children (e.g., for children of certain ages, for one sex but not the other, etc.)."

[Bravus]

I guess what I'm trying to do here is winnow out real problems from perceived problems. I'm absolutely not denying that white people have problems, and that some of them are at higher frequencies among whites than among other races. But in making those sorts of judgements we need good evidence.

And I still maintain that these are human problems rather than specifically white ones. I also still maintain that salvation is the only real and permanent cure. But in terms of other cures or solutions, a more equitable society with greater concern for others, along with better education, would make a lot of difference.

[Taylor]

Right Redwood. The Bible is clear on what is sin, but what most christians forget is that we are ALL sinners. I think that God hates gossip as much as he hates murder. It's just that murder has more consequences than gossip perhaps....at least initially. However, we MUST love everyone. Dare I say we must love not only the homosexual, murderer, the person who has an affair, the gossiper, the cheater, but also those who appear to be "unlovable" by society such as the Hitlers/Saddam Husseins etc. That doesn't mean that we condone what they have done but we can love them because God loves them. God's love far exceeds what us humans can ever understand but we are to love people because every human being has value because God created them.

[Taylor]

What I don't get is this. People either assume that just because you're black you have an attitude, could be dangerous, or a gangster, or just because you're white you are prejudiced towards blacks, or secretely fear them. True there are some blacks and whites with an attitude. There are some blacks and whites who are dangerous and gangsters, and there are some blacks and whites who are prejudiced. But I don't like sweeping comments about any race. What is true for one person doesn't mean it is true for the race.

I have three questions Lazarus or anyone,

1. In your opinion, is it possible for a white person to be truely unbiased...to truely love African Americans (or "blacks" but I don't like that term as they are just brown not black) and perhaps even further, to prefer to spend time with people who are not of their race, especially blacks? Can they do this without "denying their heritage" of being white?

2. Can an African American be truely unbiased, to truely love white people, and perhaps even further, to prefer to spend time with people who are not of their race, especially whites? Can they do this without denying their heritage of being black?

3. Is it possible for people to truely enjoy other people REGARDLESS of their color. To love people just because they are people. To recognize that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, and to seek out diversity because they truely enjoy it? Isn't it possible to love people without denying one's heritage, feeding hatred or bigotry, or loosing one's identity?

[Dr. Shane]

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The Japanese, Koreans and Chinese... don't go around invading other countries

I wouldn't want to try and defend that. China has been threatening Taiwan for 60s years and they have a little issue with Tibet. North Korea has been shooting missles accross the sea of Japan. And Japan well, there was a little battle back at Pearl Harbor where they woke up a sleeping giant.

However I think that is all a diversion. Lazarus points are well taken. Some whites have issues with supiority complexes. Now the fact that some blacks, asians, hispanics and native americans also have issues with supiority complexes is beside the point. Whites don't have to be the only racial group with a specific problem in order for that problem to be an issue.

I believe the reason most whites do not see racism as an issue is because of the enormous progress that has been made. In addition to the progress, many whites feel cheated by affirmative action. I will use myself as an example. I wanted to go to graduate school. My undergrad GPA is only 2.65 and a 2.75 was required to get in. If I had been a racial minority the requirment would have been lower so I could have gotten in. Many whites either have simular stories or know people that have simular stories.

However racism is still an issue in the white community. It is even an issue in the Adventist church. I know of white churches that do not want help hispanic students attend church school because they believe that if the hispanics are getting enough welfare already. I know other white churches that help out hispanic churches a lot because they feel pity for the stupid, ignorant latinos that can't learn enough to get a good paying job - and I have heard them say as much.

The fact that blacks and hispanics may have an exagerated view of racism is perhaps because they are the victems of it. While no one in America owns a black man, there are no longer segregated schools and drinking fountains, there are still racist attitudes among whites in America.

[Dr. Shane]

I will give another example of typical racism. Of course this isn't as bad as slavery or segregation but it is something some minorities have to deal with.

If my car breaks down while driving down the highway and I put on the hazzards lights and start hitchhiking with a gas can, it won't take long for someone to see my car, see the gas can and pick me up. If a hispanic or a black man do the same thing they better plan on walking to the next town because they will be lucky if someone stops to pick them up.

[Taylor]

No kidding Shane and that is just awful!

[Doug]

What I don't get is this. People either assume that just because you're black you have an attitude, could be dangerous, or a gangster, or just because you're white you are prejudiced towards blacks, or secretely fear them. True there are some blacks and whites with an attitude. There are some blacks and whites who are dangerous and gangsters, and there are some blacks and whites who are prejudiced. But I don't like sweeping comments about any race. What is true for one person doesn't mean it is true for the race.

I have three questions Lazarus or anyone,

1. In your opinion, is it possible for a white person to be truly unbiased...to truly love African Americans (or "blacks" but I don't like that term as they are just brown not black) and perhaps even further, to prefer to spend time with people who are not of their race, especially blacks? Can they do this without "denying their heritage" of being white?

2. Can an African American be truly unbiased, to truly love white people, and perhaps even further, to prefer to spend time with people who are not of their race, especially whites? Can they do this without denying their heritage of being black?

3. Is it possible for people to truly enjoy other people REGARDLESS of their color. To love people just because they are people. To recognize that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, and to seek out diversity because they truly enjoy it? Isn't it possible to love people without denying one's heritage, feeding hatred or bigotry, or loosing one's identity?

1 and 2 - Yes. I consider my church life, I attended a "white" church when I was younger and I still do (although one could argue that it is mostly multicultural based on the location of East LA) for most of my life. My mom, myself, and my brother were ostracized from most black churches because we associated with whites. All of are so called friends basically broke off any communication with us because of our choice not to attend a black church.

Also in school, I was one of a handful of blacks there, and I had no problem with it, I never really even thought about it tell someone mentions it. I think someone who grows up exclusively with their own race would have a problem with it. If I ever have kids, I will make it a point for them to mingle with other races. I think a big part of racism in this country is because people don't mingle with others and see things from other peoples perspective.

3. it can work, the biggest thing we need to do is get rid of the labels. Why can't I be American instead of Afro-America? Also, people need to stop segregating themselves.

[Woody]

Thank you Cubensis ... That is a first for me to hear what you have said ....

"Why can't I be American instead of Afro-America? Also, people need to stop segregating themselves"

I applaud you. I believe the same but had never heard of a Black person saying how I felt.

I've decided not to be called a Swiss/Swedish American. I refuse the label although I AM proud of my heritage. But, I am more proud of being an American. And real Americans ... DROP their other citizenships and become Americans. Just Plain Old Americans. To call yourself an African American to me and my humble opinion is RACIST. Putting your color or other identity ahead of being an American sees wrong. I don't even go around calling my self a Christian American. Just Plain American.

[Amelia]

Cubansis, That kitty is too cute. Is it your own kitty?

Personally, If I were to use any type of ethnic-American title it would take too long to say.

Scottish, English, Celt, German, Polish,? -American. So I'm just plain ole American.

[John317]

I'm just wondering where the white community is...

Excellent question.

What and where exactly is the white community?

What values does the "white community" have and what values does it attempt to inculcate? How do these differ from the values of, say, the hispanic and the black communties?

This is becoming harder and harder to define and distinquish since the end of the Civil Rights era because as a society we are far more integrated than we were in the 40s, 50s, and even the 60s.

Since the 90s I myself have lived mostly in the Mexican-American community so except through newspapers and journals, etc., I have little contact with middle-class white society.

During the late 60s and early 70s, all of my friends were in various stages of rebellion against the middle class (the bourgeois), and we were out to overthrow it because we believed its values were the bedrock of capitalism. Therefore we detested everything that smacked of middle class morality, such as the belief in private property and the so-called "protestant ethic" that encourages hard work, clean speech, honesty, integrety, personal responsibility, a monogamous relationship, the traditional family,etc.

Today it's these values that are under almost contant attack from the entertainment industry.

[Woody]

Saying the Black community speaks or acts as one is as racist as saying the White community speaks or acts as one.

We can generalize but even that can get us in trouble.So ... if you want to label this as stereotypes of Black or Whites ... that might be more fitting.

[phkrause]

What and where exactly is the white community?

Thats a very interesting question. The only problem is that the white community is made up of many different communitys. I grew up and lived the NYC for 25 years or so and you had Jewish, irish, Italian, etc, etc, neighborhoods. And each one had there own identity, besides not liking or getting alone with each other at times. And of course you had your gangs also in each neighborhood. Making the white community very different within itself.

pkrause

[Woody]

Speaking about the Black community ... I just watched the most amazing story on CBS news.

A Black man saw a White man having a seizure and fall onto the NY subway rail tracks. A train was coming. The Black man left his two little girls and jumped down and held the man down between the two tracks while the train went over the top of the two. There was 21 inches of clearance. The two of them took 20 1/2 inches. So they only had a half inch to spare.

This man did not take the time to notice the man in need was White. He is a true HERO.

[phkrause]

Absolutely a great story of one american helping another american.

pkrause

[Taylor]

Yes I read about that incident as well. What an honor to have such incredible people in our midst!

[Amelia]

I saw on the morning news that people were lining up to thank him!

[Woody]

I would personally like to thank him also. If ever there was someone who deserves the title HERO ... HE is the one.

[Amelia]

Wesley Autrey will be on Latenight with David Letterman 4 Jan, 07 11:30pm CBS.

He is quoted as saying

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"I don't feel like I did something spectacular; I just saw someone who needed help," he told the Times. "I did what I felt was right."