Problems In The White Community

[aldona]

Speaking about the Black community ... I just watched the most amazing story on CBS news.

A Black man saw a White man having a seizure and fall onto the NY subway rail tracks. A train was coming. The Black man left his two little girls and jumped down and held the man down between the two tracks while the train went over the top of the two. There was 21 inches of clearance. The two of them took 20 1/2 inches. So they only had a half inch to spare.

This man did not take the time to notice the man in need was White. He is a true HERO.

We will know we truly have a society free from racism when a story like this will be reported without making any mention of the race of either participant.

aldona

[John317]

Saying the Black community speaks or acts as one is as racist as saying the White community speaks or acts as one.

We can generalize but even that can get us in trouble.So ... if you want to label this as stereotypes of Black or Whites ... that might be more fitting.

There's nothing wrong with generalizing as long as one realizes that's what he's doing and as long as the generalizing is based on more than mere personal experience. For instance, there are social studies, etc.

But of course the black and white communities don't act or speak as one. Nevertheless there are general trends or patterns.

One problem that some blacks face is that they choose to speak out against what they perceive to be negative behaviors in the black community. For instance, Bill Cosby was attacked because he did this in a way that the black community did not think was proper-- that is, Cosby "aired the dirty laundry in public," and that was considered an offense because what he did was viewed as a betrayal of the black community. So, there is a sense in which the black community wants itself to be seen as speaking or behaving in certain ways. I don't see whites as doing that. Of course there are historical and cultural/sociological reasons for this difference.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Speaking about the Black community ... I just watched the most amazing story on CBS news.

A Black man saw a White man having a seizure and fall onto the NY subway rail tracks. A train was coming. The Black man left his two little girls and jumped down and held the man down between the two tracks while the train went over the top of the two. There was 21 inches of clearance. The two of them took 20 1/2 inches. So they only had a half inch to spare.

This man did not take the time to notice the man in need was White. He is a true HERO.

We will know we truly have a society free from racism when a story like this will be reported without making any mention of the race of either participant.

aldona

Yet the irony is that society won't be free from racisim if we don't let people know that this kind of thing occurs. Racism happens primarily because of ignorance and isolation.

It's a good thing to know that a white woman gave up one of her kidneys for a black woman and that a black man was willing to sacrifice his life to save a white man. I hope those things encourage more people of both races to do many more acts of kindness and love for one another.

I disagree that simply the fact that we mention a person's race means we are presently a racist society.

[John317]

Maybe this is a problem....

Just a few years ago, a public opinion poll indicated that only 6 percent of whites in the U.S. believed racism was still a "very serious" problem facing African Americans. While larger percentages believed racism to be somewhat of a problem, only this anemic share of the white community saw it as an issue of great importance.

When you consider that twice that number -- or as many as 12 percent -- have told pollsters they believe Elvis Presley is still alive, it becomes apparent that delusion has taken on a whole new meaning among the dominant racial majority. Apparently, it is easier for whites to believe that a pill-popping, washed-up lounge singer faked his own death and is playing midnight gigs at some tropical resort, than to believe what black folks say they experience every day.

It makes me think that if ignorance is indeed bliss, then my fellow whites must be among the happiest folks on the planet.

Read more....

http://www.alternet.org/story/11192/

Lazarus, I really would be interested in knowing what some of the experiences are that you personally have had that show you racism is still a serious problem in America.

One point I'd like to make is that if I always try to treat people kindly and thoughtfully, that is all that God expects of me. God doesn't hold me responsible for what someone does down the street. God holds each of us responsible for what we ourselves do. While I feel bad and even angry that others treat people of other races badly, God doesn't want me to feel guilty for what they do. People punish people for what other people do but God only punishes people for what they themselves do, although we often do reap the consequences of the evil that is done around us.

Some blacks have done terrible things to me in the past, but I absolutely refuse to let those things make me bitter against, or to blame, other blacks.

By the way, last week at work I had a great talk with a Christian from West Africa. He has only been in the US for 4 months. He's told me that he believes God brought him here but he's not sure why. God showed him a vision of a plane and told him he was to travel to California. He says he's an Apostolic pastor but presently has no church. He loves to talk about the power of God and the gospel. I showed him a picture of the statue in Daniel 2 and he wants a copy. Next I plan to give him Steps to Christ and some books that will include the Three Angels' Message and the Sabbath. Please pray for him and me.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Taylor

What I don't get is this. People either assume that just because you're black you have an attitude, could be dangerous, or a gangster, or just because you're white you are prejudiced towards blacks, or secretely fear them. True there are some blacks and whites with an attitude. There are some blacks and whites who are dangerous and gangsters, and there are some blacks and whites who are prejudiced. But I don't like sweeping comments about any race. What is true for one person doesn't mean it is true for the race.

I have three questions Lazarus or anyone,

1. In your opinion, is it possible for a white person to be truly unbiased...to truly love African Americans (or "blacks" but I don't like that term as they are just brown not black) and perhaps even further, to prefer to spend time with people who are not of their race, especially blacks? Can they do this without "denying their heritage" of being white?

2. Can an African American be truly unbiased, to truly love white people, and perhaps even further, to prefer to spend time with people who are not of their race, especially whites? Can they do this without denying their heritage of being black?

3. Is it possible for people to truly enjoy other people REGARDLESS of their color. To love people just because they are people. To recognize that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, and to seek out diversity because they truly enjoy it? Isn't it possible to love people without denying one's heritage, feeding hatred or bigotry, or loosing one's identity?

1 and 2 - Yes. I consider my church life, I attended a "white" church when I was younger and I still do (although one could argue that it is mostly multicultural based on the location of East LA) for most of my life. My mom, myself, and my brother were ostracized from most black churches because we associated with whites. All of are so called friends basically broke off any communication with us because of our choice not to attend a black church.

Also in school, I was one of a handful of blacks there, and I had no problem with it, I never really even thought about it tell someone mentions it. I think someone who grows up exclusively with their own race would have a problem with it. If I ever have kids, I will make it a point for them to mingle with other races. I think a big part of racism in this country is because people don't mingle with others and see things from other peoples perspective.

3. it can work, the biggest thing we need to do is get rid of the labels. Why can't I be American instead of Afro-America? Also, people need to stop segregating themselves.

My experience, and based on readings as well, is that all three of these are theoretically possible. Number 2 happens but there are usually consequences that most people don't want to endure, such as cubensis mentions.

Most of the black kids I work with sit together by choice at one table and the hispanics and whites sit together by choice at another table.

Also, I have noticed that blacks almost always greet each other or shake hands but basically ignore the white person. At least they almost never exhibit the same exuberance at meeting the white person as they do with the blacks. This happens despite the fact that I always greet them and show a genuine interest in talking to them.

I never show a preference for whites when it comes to talking to people. In fact, if anything, I have a preference for talking with people of different races and also with people who are likely to have viewpoints that differ from my own. I like white people but I don't necessarily like them any better than someone of a different race or color. What I'm saying is that I don't like a white person just because he's white or even a black person just because he's black. None of the races has a monopoly on either good or bad people but good and bad qualities seem to be shared about equally among all the races.

I totally agree with this statement: "I think a big part of racism in this country is because people don't mingle with others and see things from other peoples perspective."

[Amelia]

Employees find noose hanging at work

By Allan Chernoff

CNN

January 5, 2007

NEW YORK (CNN) -- James Jackson, a 26-year-old black employee of 180 Connect, was preparing for another day of installing cable, telephone and Internet service to residential customers of Cablevision in Nassau County, New York on December 7.

When he walked to the fenced-off area to pick up equipment for the day's jobs he looked up and was shocked to see a vicious, racist symbol in his workplace. A noose was hanging in the fenced-off equipment area, visible to the dozens of installers, the majority of whom are black, but accessible only to his boss and an equipment manager, both of whom are white.

Jackson, a former messenger who had worked at 180 Connect for a year and a half, immediately confronted the equipment manager, Dave Willie.

"I asked Dave," Jackson told CNN, " 'What is that hanging up there?' and he said, 'That is a noose' and I said, 'I know it's a noose, but why is it up there?' And he walked away."

Jackson and his co-workers say they were distraught.

"I just wanted to leave. I wanted to get out of there," 180 Connect employee Ralph Satterwhite told CNN. "I was disgusted."

The installers say they never complained to Human Resources. Instead, they consulted with a labor attorney, documented the incident, and decided to file a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

Installer Shomari Houston, according to the complaint, says he asked his white boss, Gary Murdock, why a hangman's noose was in his workplace. He says the response was: To hang two black employees.

"He said, 'Yo, I like that, it's cool, I am gonna hang Russell up there. Think we can get James up there?' " Houston recalls Murdock saying. "I looked at him like, 'You serious.' "

Jackson says he continued to ask that the noose be taken down, and openly recorded the following conversation with Willie.

Jackson: "Who's that for, the rope?"

Willie: "For anybody who goes past that door that I don't want them in there."

Jackson: "Hang 'em?"

Willie: "Yeah."

Company says it has no tolerance for racism

After a week of complaints, the noose finally came down. The next day, December 14, the installers went public with their gripe, announcing their plans to file the EEOC discrimination claim.

180 Connect says it has zero tolerance for racism.

"It's inappropriate to put up any sign of violence in the workplace," said 180 Connect attorney Joel Cohen. "The company is aware that a noose could have racial connotations and could be a very negative symbol to African-American people.

"The company does not tolerate racism in the workplace and if anybody in the company engaged in wrongdoing, that will be dealt with and will be dealt with in a responsible way."

180 Connect has suspended Willie with pay, pending results of an investigation.

In a statement, Willie told CNN, "I am deeply saddened that a few of my co-workers have chosen to publicly air allegations of racism which they know to be false."

Willie's attorney, Richard Gertler, says his client's comment had no racial intent.

"He was saying it tongue in cheek. It's taken out of context," said Gertler.

Willie, Gertler stresses, is no racist. "My client's first marriage for 17 years was to an African-American woman. So I don't think he's racist."

Gary Murdock continues to oversee the warehouse at 180 Connect. Murdock did not return CNN's phone calls.

180 Connect has retained former National Labor Relations Law Judge Edwin Bennett to conduct an investigation. The installers, however, are refusing to appear before the judge without their attorney, which the company is not permitting, arguing it is not a legal proceeding.

Although the installers don't work directly for Cablevision, they also named the cable operator in their suit, saying company employees saw the noose and took no action.

Cablevision told CNN, "We are deeply troubled by the allegations about 180 Connect's workplace. We expect 180 Connect to conduct a thorough and credible investigation, to cooperate with any external investigation, and to take any appropriate actions."

180 Connect has more than 4,000 employees around the country. Among the cable television companies it provides installation services for is Time Warner Cable, a division of CNN's parent company, Time Warner. 180 Connect's operations are almost all in the United States, but the company has its corporate headquarters in Canada and trades on the Toronto stock exchange.

[Gerr]

Quote:

I believe the reason most whites do not see racism as an issue is because of the enormous progress that has been made. In addition to the progress, many whites feel cheated by affirmative action.

Now you have a little insight into how a minority feels when he/she, though more qualified, gets passed over for someone less qualified but who has the right skin color.

Quote:

I will use myself as an example. I wanted to go to graduate school. My undergrad GPA is only 2.65 and a 2.75 was required to get in. If I had been a racial minority the requirment would have been lower so I could have gotten in. Many whites either have simular stories or know people that have simular stories.

If your GPA of 2.65 is on a 3 point system, depending on your field of interest, you could have gotten into many but the most prestigious graduate schools. How many minorities do you know of who are accepted into grad school with 2.65 on a 4 point system?

Gerry

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Speaking about the Black community ... I just watched the most amazing story on CBS news.

A Black man saw a White man having a seizure and fall onto the NY subway rail tracks. A train was coming. The Black man left his two little girls and jumped down and held the man down between the two tracks while the train went over the top of the two. There was 21 inches of clearance. The two of them took 20 1/2 inches. So they only had a half inch to spare.

This man did not take the time to notice the man in need was White. He is a true HERO.

We will know we truly have a society free from racism when a story like this will be reported without making any mention of the race of either participant.

aldona

GOOD NEWS .... RACISM IS OVER ............

The reason I say this is the news broadcast that I reported on ... Did NOT mention the RACE of either of the main characters in the story I relayed. NOT once. WONDERFUL NEWS.

And the only reason "I" did ... was for the purpose of this topic here at C/A . I also believe as in the previous post ... that this kind of good news can only HELP the relationship between the races and that was the purpose in my sharing it.

But, IT WAS ME that added the persons RACE. I take FULL responsibility.

REDWOOD

[Gerr]

Quote:

Quote:

Rate of child abuse by race:

...

Asian/Pacific Islanders = 1%

Does every society have the same definition of 'child abuse'?

Look up "Pitcairn Island"

Just a reminder that Pitcairn Islanders are Pacific Islanders only because they live there. They are the product of Whites & Polynesians. Or is this another case where a 3/4, 1/2, white but 1/4, 1/2, 1/8/ or 1/16 black/polynesian/chinese/etc will always be classified with the non-white?

Gerry

[John317]

Employees find noose hanging at work

By Allan Chernoff

CNN

January 5, 2007

NEW YORK (CNN) -- James Jackson, a 26-year-old black employee of 180 Connect, was preparing for another day of installing cable, telephone and Internet service to residential customers of Cablevision in Nassau County, New York on December 7.

When he walked to the fenced-off area to pick up equipment for the day's jobs he looked up and was shocked to see a vicious, racist symbol in his workplace. A noose was hanging in the fenced-off equipment area, visible to the dozens of installers, the majority of whom are black, but accessible only to his boss and an equipment manager, both of whom are white.

Jackson, a former messenger who had worked at 180 Connect for a year and a half, immediately confronted the equipment manager, Dave Willie.

"I asked Dave," Jackson told CNN, " 'What is that hanging up there?' and he said, 'That is a noose' and I said, 'I know it's a noose, but why is it up there?' And he walked away."

Jackson and his co-workers say they were distraught.

"I just wanted to leave. I wanted to get out of there," 180 Connect employee Ralph Satterwhite told CNN. "I was disgusted."

The installers say they never complained to Human Resources. Instead, they consulted with a labor attorney, documented the incident, and decided to file a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

Installer Shomari Houston, according to the complaint, says he asked his white boss, Gary Murdock, why a hangman's noose was in his workplace. He says the response was: To hang two black employees.

"He said, 'Yo, I like that, it's cool, I am gonna hang Russell up there. Think we can get James up there?' " Houston recalls Murdock saying. "I looked at him like, 'You serious.' "...

...Willie's attorney, Richard Gertler, says his client's comment had no racial intent.

"He was saying it tongue in cheek. It's taken out of context," said Gertler.

Willie, Gertler stresses, is no racist. "My client's first marriage for 17 years was to an African-American woman. So I don't think he's racist."...

If these things are reported accurately and nothing more happened than what is reported here, I doubt the blacks have a case. The simple fact that there was a noose is not grounds enough to convict someone of being racist. It sounds like that noose was meant as a warning to anyone, of any race, who would go past a door where they weren't wanted. I don't agree with the idea of the noose but having it there was no crime. I think whoever put it there lacked good judgment and did a stupid, wrong act, but I don't think they ought to lose their job over it. That's just my opinion about it, and I am sure there are others who would disagree with me.

At my workplace (which is similar to juvenile hall) I have to deal with racial problems almost on a daily basis. It's right out in the open and up front. Right now one of the youths is the only white kid on my unit. I supervise 12 juvenile delinquents, each one for up to a year or more. 7 are black, 4 hispanic, 1 white. The white kid is constantly being called "white boy." He doesn't care. He accepts it good naturedly and even refers to himself as "white boy." I sometimes get called "white boy," too. As long as it's not carried too far, I don't say anything. On the other hand, there are times when the black kids say things like, "Why won't you let me do such and such-- is it because I"m black? You don't like blacks do you." And at that point I have to tell them that if they say it again, I will write a report. The ones who do this are pretty new. They try to manipulate staff by using race. I also get those who are followers of Louis Farakahn, who has taught before that all whites are devils. These sometimes have told me, "I hate all whites." I see how this works almost every day. Many have learned how to do it very successfully on the streets, but here it is a different thing altogether, yet it takes a while for them to learn that they can't say such things without having to answer for them. The most important thing they have to learn is that there are consequences for both their actions and their words.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Why are white men so intimidated by black men? Its seems like every white man I meet is afraid of a black man.

I have no scientific study to back this up but here is my personal take. 1) Fear. Fear that the Black man will take revenge for the years of oppression & discrimination 2) Phallus envy? Black men have a reputation for having huge phalluses. Not much will be said especially by White men if a White man marries a Black woman, but woe to the Black man that has a White wife just a few years ago. 3) The White man's facade of superiority is rapidly being eroded by Black excellence (superiority?) today in most of the most visible/popular fields of sports, and the increasingly disproportionately large representation of Asians in colleges & universities. In some of the U. California schools, the largest block of students are now Asians.

Gerry

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

How many minorities do you know of who are accepted into grad school with 2.65 on a 4 point system?

Minorities are allowed in with a 2.5 on a probationary status.

[Woody]

In Michigan we just voted to do away with this Affirmation Action Discrimination against Whites and Women. But, the Blacks are challenging it in the courts. They want racial discrimination to continue. OF COURSE. They want to punish us Whites.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

The white kid is constantly being called "white boy."

Happens to me all the time. I also get called "huero" which is Mexican slang for white boy. One day I was in a Wal-Mart in the shoe isle and a little girl, perhaps 4 years old, kept telling her mom, "Mami, mira un huero" which means "Mommy, look it's a white boy". The mother finally told her kid to shut up.

[aldona]

Unfortunately, here in Australia racism is becoming more of a problem rather than less...mainly directed towards Middle Eastern/ Arab people and Asians, although black people (African immigrants or Aboriginals) also get treated poorly.

The following is a letter to the editor in today's "Sydney Morning Herald":

Quote:

Racist abuse and a fight ruined the night

This New Year's Eve my family and I joined thousands of people around Sydney Harbour to see the fireworks. It was our last night in Australia, crowning a three-week holiday before returning to America.

Six years ago I had studied at the University of Melbourne as an exchange student and I was so excited about showing my family around the country I'd come to love.

Unfortunately, our last night was spoiled by an aspect of Australia I had tried to forget.

We are American but we are also Asian, and the crowd seemed full of people making racist, disparaging comments about Asians - not only within our hearing but to our faces.

When we found a spot to sit, one woman remarked loudly that she didn't want to sit next to Asians. Another man shouted at us "I hate Chinese!" We are not Chinese.

Mostly I was appalled at how open and explicit the comments were. While there are still pockets of America where racist behaviour and beliefs are common, on the whole we have managed to cultivate a society where blatant and demonstrated racism is wrong.

I've experienced subtler forms of discrimination and prejudice, as well as flat-out ignorance, but never in my life as an Asian-American have I felt this belittled and hurt.

Finally, as the fireworks began, a young man tried to push past us to the front. I told him: "There isn't any room to move. We're all trying to see the same fireworks." He responded by pushing forward anyway and saying in a contemptuous tone: "There is room. Anyway, you're Asian. It doesn't matter."

After all that had happened, I lost what little temper I had left and hit him. Then I began shouting, calling him a racist, cursing, the works. I am only five feet tall but I was so angry that my family and others nearby had to restrain me to allow the young man to get away.

Unquestionably, I acted inappropriately. Violence was a disproportionate response to the offence, not to mention illegal. Moreover, it was disgusting behaviour. But the racism exhibited by that man and others that night was even more disgusting and part of me still wishes I had responded the same way to all of them.

I certainly wish the other Asians in the crowd had spoken up instead of accepting or ignoring the comments.

The degree to which racism is openly tolerated and practised in Australia is infuriating. I know that not all migrants have fully assimilated into the majority culture but why should Asians have to become more "Australian" if their fellow Australians treat them as less than human?

I am sad that we left on such horrible terms. During our holiday we contributed a lot of hard-earned dollars to your economy and until our last night we really did enjoy ourselves. I kept making plans for the next visit because I was sure there would be one. This land has so much natural beauty … but there is still so much ugliness among the people.

Kunthea Ker North Carolina (US)

[Dr. Shane]

Another note about my grad. application process. I was accepted by the university's graduate studies department with my GPA but was not accepted by the specific college within the university, I was trying to get into.

Now if any wonder why my GPA was only 2.65 I will reveal the secret. I grew up as poor, white trash. My dad abandoned the family when I was 6 years old. I worked all through college except for my final quarter which was after I got married and my wife supported us so I could study more. That final quarter I get all As and Bs. I have little doubt that I would have been able to maintain a GPA above 3.0 if I had been from a middle class family and not had to work. But I don't get a break when I try to get into grad school because my skin is the wrong color.

[John317]

Quote:

The white kid is constantly being called "white boy."

Happens to me all the time. I also get called "huero" which is Mexican slang for white boy. One day I was in a Wal-Mart in the shoe isle and a little girl, perhaps 4 years old, kept telling her mom, "Mami, mira un huero" which means "Mommy, look it's a white boy". The mother finally told her kid to shut up.

And you probably don't care, right? Me neither.

Of course the difference is that blacks were called "boy" as a way of denigrating them. No one can denigrate me by calling me "white" or "whitey" or "white boy," because I DON'T FEEL MYSELF DENIGRATED. I CANNOT BE MADE TO FEEL A SENSE OF SHAME BECAUSE OF MY WHITENESS.

Some blacks understand that and have tried to change it.

A few years ago I knew of a tragic case--- tragic for everyone involved it it-- where a white woman went walking in the night and was picked up by a black woman and three black men. They took the white woman to their mobile home and raped her and then forced her into a tub full of bleach. They gave her a heavy brush and made her scrub herself for several hours in the bleach, taunting her all the while about how she needed to scrub off her dirty whiteness. She was crying and sobbing practically the whole time. Then when they were done they took her in their car out on a lonely road and shot her to death.

They were trying to make her feel shame for being white. Maybe they were angry at the realization that whites don't feel any shame for being white the way they felt shame for being black. Not all feel shame but some still do. It runs so deep.

The four who did this were caught and are now in prison. The three men were in the naval reserves.

I almost cry when I think of what that poor woman went through. I would feel the same if whites had done that to a black woman.

[John317]

...Now if any wonder why my GPA was only 2.65 I will reveal the secret. I grew up as poor, white trash. My dad abandoned the family when I was 6 years old. I worked all through college except for my final quarter which was after I got married and my wife supported us so I could study more. That final quarter I get all As and Bs. I have little doubt that I would have been able to maintain a GPA above 3.0 if I had been from a middle class family and not had to work. But I don't get a break when I try to get into grad school because my skin is the wrong color.

Shane, I think you're to be highly commended for all you've accomplished because I know it took determination and self-discipline to do what you did. You had to've done really well on your college essays, I bet. And doubtless you did a lot of reading while growing up. It shows.

Who was the one you heard speaking English in your home? You evidently chose to copy the speech of someone who knew what they were doing. That makes a big difference.

Did you know that there are chemicals you could use to make your skin black? One American writer used it and went down South as a black man. The result was his book, "Black Like Me." My dad read portions of it to the whole family. I was about 10. That was my first introduction to racism in this country.

[Dr. Shane]

One of the brothers I work for only recently discovered I came from a broken home. Believe it or not there are racist sterotypes among other races about whites. He told me he thought I came from a missionary family and that is how I learned Spanish. When he learned I had come from such a broken home he commented to me how impressive it is that I was able to get through college with such a background.

But the truth is that my first couple of years in college were a complete failure and the school actually kicked me out. It wasn't until I had a spiritual experience and decided to do things God's way that I had any academic success. After two quarters out of school I was able to return - but without financial aid. I had to pay my own way for a few quarters before I got financial aid again.

So I don't see anything great about me. Getting through college was all about following God and obeying Him. It was about surrender and submission. "It is no secret what God can do, what He's done for others, He'll do for you."

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Who was the one you heard speaking English in your home?

I think my English has been mostly influenced by William Griffith Wilson also known as Bill W., co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous. Having landed in AA at the young age of 15, I have read literally hunderds of books and articles written by him. I have sat in hours and hours of meetings discussing these and was even a member of an archives committee. Bill went to law school but dropped out with only one class remaining. He became a stock spectator during the roaring 20s and worked as a securities analyst which was a pioneering field in his day.

A movie made about his life is available on Amazon.com My Name Is Bill W

[Bravus]

Quote:

I have little doubt that I would have been able to maintain a GPA above 3.0 if I had been from a middle class family and not had to work. But I don't get a break when I try to get into grad school because my skin is the wrong color.

First thing I want to do is echo the comments of others: you've said 'all it took was following God', but that's a pretty big 'all'! Your faithfulness has been rewarded in your personal growth, and in the blessing you are to us here, to your family and to those you work with.

The second thing, though, is that I agree that race-based affirmative action and other programs are inequitable for exactly the reasons you outlined. Ones based on people's actual circumstances rather than on their race are fairer and make more sense.

That's why I was resistant to this thread in the beginning - because I think the sooner we stop identifying classes of problems by race, and rather think of them as human problems, the sooner we start dealing with them as hman problems, not race problems.

[phkrause]

I second that. Well said.

pkrause

[Woody]

Regarding "That's why I was resistant to this thread in the beginning - because I think the sooner we stop identifying classes of problems by race, and rather think of them as human problems, the sooner we start dealing with them as hman problems, not race problems. "

...............................................................

It is the Black community that doesn't want a color blind society. They want the Whites to pay for all the past wrongs.

MLK was the one who first promoted a color blind society and now that many whites have supported this ... the blacks are the ones that are backtracking on his preaching.

[cricket]

Excuse me?!?

Perhaps some in the black community (again, wherever that is...) don't want a color blind society; perhaps some want "the Whites to pay for all the past wrongs."

To say that "it is the Black community" is as ludicrous as if someone were to say that because "Redwood" said X, all persons of "Redwood's" color believe X.

[Woody]

SORRY .... !!!

Let me try again. Since all I can go by is what the leadership of a particular group of people say. I can rephrase what I said and state that according to what the Black leadership says ... they do not believe or want a color blind society. They are opposed to stopping Affirmation Action. You can name any black organization and they are opposed to stopping the flow of discrimination. ???

The blacks have leadership so it is easy to state what the Blacks believe ... if you consider their leaders to speak for them.

Whites do not have leaders because it is not politically correct to have an organization for Whites. Blacks and Women have their own organizations but Whites and Males are not allowed by society to have exclusive organizations. Have you ever heard of a National Assoc. of White people like their is a National Assoc. for Colored People ?

This group is largely held in political circles to speak for Blacks.