Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 6, 2007 Members Share Posted January 6, 2007 Just looking at some of the Sponsors listed over to the right side....here was an interesting site: DanceWear for Worship Do some churches have dancing as an integral part of their worship? :--) Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 apparently there is the need for some type of dance appearal- Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Nan Posted January 7, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2007 Well the prices look reasonable - not too sure I could see myself floating round the church clothed like that, but then I would not be 'floating round' anywhere. There will also be a tryer for any potential market ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 8, 2007 Administrators Share Posted January 8, 2007 Quote: Do some churches have dancing as an integral part of their worship? Yes, they do. I knew a girl once who was part of a dance routine as part of her worship. She was a penfriend of mine. Because it's been so long, though, since I've talked to her, I can't remember what country she lives in or what church she belongs to. I just remember that fact because it was so different than what I was used to. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Dance and worship together are certainly Biblical and they can be beautiful together. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 yes yes! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 The models look great in their clothing but HEY ... We need some equality here ... how about some White models !!! Just kidding !! Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Do some churches have dancing as an integral part of their worship? DH and I attended a church in college where they had a large group of dancers, with streamers and everything. Quote Toni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Are you referring to other Christian churches or heaven forbid ... Seventh day Adventist churches ???????? Ellen White would turn over in her grave !!! Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Are you referring to other Christian churches or heaven forbid ... Seventh day Adventist churches ???????? Ellen White would turn over in her grave !!! LOL! No, it was a non-denominational church. We actually only visited that church once. We regularly attended an AOG church while we were in college. We weren't Adventist at the time. ;-) Quote Toni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Originally Posted By: Redwood Are you referring to other Christian churches or heaven forbid ... Seventh day Adventist churches ???????? Ellen White would turn over in her grave !!! LOL! No, it was a non-denominational church. We actually only visited that church once. We regularly attended an AOG church while we were in college. We weren't Adventist at the time. ;-) If you want Christian Love ... Those non-denominational churches are the best. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 That's for sure. For loving acceptance, reaching out and helping, loving care in practical ways, the non-denominational churches beat every SDA church all hollow. Phone calls, card ministries, women's activities, family activities, agape feasts, showing up to shovel snow, fix furnaces, give fuel oil, man.... I sooo wish I could find a non-denominational Sabbath-keeping church. I have a friend who attends a non-denominational church. He took my needs over the last few months to his church for prayer... instead of waiting on a miracle in answer to their prayers, they MADE a miracle. Many miracles.... And I'm not even a member. Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Clio ... Have any ideas on how we can combine the true teachings of scripture that the SDA church has with the caring love and acceptance of the nondenominational churches? Now wouldn't that be grand. The early church had it all. Why can't we have it now? Maybe we should start a thread on practical ideas on how to accomplish this. We could start small with each church we have contact with. My wife is getting calls to be a Pastor. She graduates in May from Andrews. I will have the new title of Pastors Spouse. The reason I am telling you this is because I would really appreciate ideas on how I could help the church we go to ... to become as the nondenominational churches. Any secrets that you might know of or ideas ... would be greatly appreciated. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 12, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 12, 2007 Just looking at some of the Sponsors listed over to the right side....here was an interesting site: DanceWear for Worship Do some churches have dancing as an integral part of their worship? :--) About a year ago, the Loma Linda Hill Church invited a group of female dancers from a non-SDA church to come and dance at their church sevice, and you could actually see their panties under their see-through dresses. There's nothing I haven't seen before, but I was stunned to see this in one of Seventh-day Adventists' largest churches. Ms. H. Williams is the pastor there now. I can scarcely imagine what past pastors, such as Elders Dickerson and Ralph Larson, would have said if they had seen those women dancing in church. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 12, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 12, 2007 Clio ... Have any ideas on how we can combine the true teachings of scripture that the SDA church has with the caring love and acceptance of the nondenominational churches? Now wouldn't that be grand. The early church had it all. Why can't we have it now? Maybe we should start a thread on practical ideas on how to accomplish this. We could start small with each church we have contact with. My wife is getting calls to be a Pastor. She graduates in May from Andrews. I will have the new title of Pastors Spouse. The reason I am telling you this is because I would really appreciate ideas on how I could help the church we go to ... to become as the nondenominational churches. Any secrets that you might know of or ideas ... would be greatly appreciated. I am resistent to people who claim that the Seventh-day Adventist church is part of the fallen, Babylonian chruches. That is the claim made by the Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement as well as by those who made this link: http://www.worldslastchance.com/index.php?p=next_and_last_pope.php I grew up in the Seventh-day Adventist church. My grandfather and his brother were Adventist ministers back in 1900 to the 1940s. My father was an SDA pastor and founding principal at Orangewood Academy. My grandmother was a Bible worker in the late 1800s until the 1950s. I studied theology at Loma Linda University and worked for a year as a associate pastor. I was baptized in 1973 and joined the SDA church, but the church is changing and seems no longer to be the church I joined. I believe the teachings of the church as they appear in the book, Seventh-day Adventists Believe. I wondering what has happened to my church and the church of my parents and of my grandparents. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 12, 2007 Administrators Share Posted January 12, 2007 About a year ago, the Loma Linda Hill Church invited a group of female dancers from a non-SDA church to come and dance at their church sevice, and you could actually see their panties under their see-through dresses. There's nothing I haven't seen before, but I was stunned to see this in one of Seventh-day Adventists' largest churches. Ms. H. Williams is the pastor there now. I can scarcely imagine what past pastors, such as Elders Dickerson and Ralph Larson, would have said if they had seen those women dancing in church. Although, John317, I would think that there is a good chance that Ms. Williams was as shocked to see the underwear as you were. That is a risk one takes when inviting guests in- you trust and expect them to be a good guest! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Was Pastor Williams the Pastor at the time? You said she was the Pastor NOW. But that this happened a year ago. I understand that she just got there. I would hate to hold her responsible if she was not there. A word of clarification would be appreciated. Also ... the Pastor is not always the one that does the inviting and checking out of those that are invited. A good Pastor delegates responsiblities. And yes ... mistakes can happen A better thing to ask would be did she or he support this and were the dancers invited back? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Redwood... It's simple. The church has to really care from the heart. People do what they want to do, by and large, not what they should do. I didn't ask for help. But when we went from three running vehilces to zero running vehicles in one month, one of THEM offered me a vehicle to drive while my main one was fixed. Not a beater, a really, really nice suburban. Another came to my house and fixed my furnace, no charge because they knew how the cold affects my husband and that was one thing that I wouldn't need to pay for. Two days before Christmas, we helped a lady with 4 children escape an abusive marriage. We provided gifts for her 4 children... not expensive, but at least they had Christmas. We fed them, we sang Christmas carols with them, and I gave some of my clothing to her as a Christmas gift. I had bought some much needed new clothes, some of which I hadn't yet worn, and because she had even less than I, I wrapped them up and gave them to her. We knew about them because this other church had rescued them... and knew we would help. Much of the reaching out I do and they do isn't a "formal" ministry. It's meeting the actual, physical need at the moment without judgement and without expectation of anything at all in return. I rarely have money to give to an effort, but I have time, I have a home, and I can share what I have. And that is what I do. I have taken people in on more than one occasion. Sometimes for as long as several months, once for as long as a year. It's run the spectrum from a family of 7 (talk about a challenge!!!!), a married couple and a baby, two homeless people, to a single adult. I visit in the Youth Facility, talking to the kids there... and I go every single week at least once. In the two years I've been going, I've never seen the local SDA pastor there, although I've seen 3 local SDA kids there. The non-denominational pastor is there every single week, twice a week. Once for the detention side of the facility and once for the treatment side of the facility. It takes a heart relationship with Abba and Jesus that cares enough to allow the needs of humanity to inconvenience your every day life. It takes a heart relationship that is so strong that you can't not help no matter your circumstances. My husband is still dreadfully ill with so many co-morbidities that it's difficult to even find a physician willing to take on his treatment. So it's not like its convenient or easy, but it's something that just is a part of who I am because of Who I love. Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Originally Posted By: Redwood Clio ... Have any ideas on how we can combine the true teachings of scripture that the SDA church has with the caring love and acceptance of the nondenominational churches? Now wouldn't that be grand. The early church had it all. Why can't we have it now? I am resistent to people who claim that the Seventh-day Adventist church is part of the fallen, Babylonian chruches. That is the claim made by the Seventh-day Adventist Reform Oh good grief. No one made that claim. Just that it's not a particularly loving or demonstrative or meeting the needs of it's members type of a denomination overall. The focus and emphasis is "OUR DOCTRINE IS RIGHT DOCTRINE BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE BETTER THAN XYZ DENOMINATION" while the members, and anyone not being specifically targeted for conversion suffers in silence. Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 12, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 12, 2007 Was Pastor Williams the Pastor at the time? You said she was the Pastor NOW. But that this happened a year ago. I understand that she just got there. I would hate to hold her responsible if she was not there. A word of clarification would be appreciated. Also ... the Pastor is not always the one that does the inviting and checking out of those that are invited. A good Pastor delegates responsiblities. And yes ... mistakes can happen A better thing to ask would be did she or he support this and were the dancers invited back? Yes, she was pastor at the Loma Linda Hill Church at the time those things happened. I am just saying what happened and that those things never happened before at that church. I went to that church from 1958 to 1967 and then off and on until the present time. I still occasionally visit that church. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Originally Posted By: John317 I am resistent to people who claim that the Seventh-day Adventist church is part of the fallen' date=' Babylonian chruches. That is the claim made by the Seventh-day Adventist Reform [/quote'] Oh good grief. No one made that claim. Just that it's not a particularly loving or demonstrative or meeting the needs of it's members type of a denomination overall. The focus and emphasis is "OUR DOCTRINE IS RIGHT DOCTRINE BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE BETTER THAN XYZ DENOMINATION" while the members, and anyone not being specifically targeted for conversion suffers in silence. Clio ... Very well said . What more can I say. Some people have to read herasy into into everything. We are not saying our great church is Babylon. We love our church. We want it to be better by loving all those that attend but may not be the social elite. Where is the love in the Remnant people? Since when do you get accused of belonging to some Reform group just because you want to help the church be more loving and caring. I am just speechless. Is the true church that resistive to being loving? REDWOOD Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 12, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 12, 2007 Originally Posted By: John317 About a year ago, the Loma Linda Hill Church invited a group of female dancers from a non-SDA church to come and dance at their church sevice, and you could actually see their panties under their see-through dresses. There's nothing I haven't seen before, but I was stunned to see this in one of Seventh-day Adventists' largest churches. Ms. H. Williams is the pastor there now. I can scarcely imagine what past pastors, such as Elders Dickerson and Ralph Larson, would have said if they had seen those women dancing in church. Although, John317, I would think that there is a good chance that Ms. Williams was as shocked to see the underwear as you were. That is a risk one takes when inviting guests in- you trust and expect them to be a good guest! I think you are probably right. At least I hope so. But during the service and afterwards, I didn't see any evidence that people were surprised. I looked around to see people's facial expressions and I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. Actually quite a few members were sort of dancing in place. I was embarrassed that my wife and daughters had to see something like that in an Adventist church. I told them it was nothing like it was when I used to go there. It's a different place. I can't imagine what my parents and grandparents would say if they could see it now. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 12, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 12, 2007 Originally Posted By: Clio Clio ... Very well said . What more can I say. Some people have to read herasy into into everything. We are not saying our great church is Babylon. We love our church. We want it to be better by loving all those that attend but may not be the social elite. Where is the love in the Remnant people? Since when do you get accused of belonging to some Reform group just because you want to help the church be more loving and caring. I am just speechless. Is the true church that resistive to being loving? REDWOOD I was not saying that anyone on this thread said the SDA church is Babylon. Nor am I talking about the church being loving or not loving. I am talking about dancing during worship services and the fact that quite a few Seventh-day Adventists are moving away from Seventh-day Adventist doctrines and practices that are based firmly on Scripture. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 You have some work ahead of you John 317 if you think that dancing is not scriptural. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciretose Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 A short time ago the Hope Channel broadcast a Christmas special from one of our institutions that had worship dancers. Quite graceful, and if you read the Psalms, Biblical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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