The Use of Racial Slurs in CA

[Woody]

I've recently joined C/A. But I was surprised at the use of Racial Slurs by some of the members.

Is this something that is tolerated here?

No one has come to my aide when I had to combat it. Is there some kind of pecking order and I am at the bottom and Shane is at the top?

I would have thought that by now ... Someone out there would have come to my aide.This comment was made on 1-26 and one person actually commented "Beautifully put!". What is happening here?

Do you feel that it is OK for me to be called a racial slur because I haven't been in C/A for very long? What is going on? I would like to know why Shane has not been encouraged to apologize. ???

Perhaps it is OK for minorities to call each other Niggur but a White person is condemned for its use. Perhaps it is OK for the minority person to call another member of C/A a racial slur because after all we don't know the other member's heritage.

Perhaps it is OK for Shane to call me a racial slur because of Affirmation Action. After all ... minorities have been called names for years and years. It is about time that they get even. Maybe it will help them to feel better.

I would be interested in knowing how you feel about allowing racial slurs in Club Adventist Forum. Personally I feel that each person should stick to a discussion of the topic and refrain from name calling , racial slurs, and personal attacks. This is a Christian Forum. RIGHT?

I am not going to repeat the racial slurs that Shane used ... but if you want to see what happened and his refusal to apologize ... look at the thread on the report of Illegals killing 145,000. It was a report that was on the news and I started a discussion on it. But I got more than I bargained for.

You can somehow argue that it was not considered a racial slur by Shane. But it was clearly name calling. The dictionary actually calls both Niggur and the word Shane used as Hostile. To me that is even beyond name calling.

The dictionary clearly defines the word used as a Hostile racial slur. Shane was told this and refuses to accept it and refuses to apologize. If we use HIS theory ... because it is used by HIS community ... he should be able to use it here ... then the word Niggur should be able to be used. It is used as a word of endearment in the Black community. It is on TV frequently when Blacks use it. Does that make it OK for me to use it here on CA?

I think NOT.

[Bravus]

Redwood, there's no pecking order here. Everyone's posts are treated the same and moderated equally. The issue is that not everyone agrees that the term in question is a racial slur or any kind of derogatory term. You quoted one dictionary definition. Here are a few more:

From Wikipedia:

Quote:

Gringo (feminine, gringa) is a term in the Spanish and Portuguese languages used in some countries of Latin America to refer to foreigners from different cultures especially from the United States, but also from Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia and elsewhere, including in some cases other countries of Latin America itself.[1]

Some controversy exists regarding whether gringo is a derogatory term. The American Heritage Dictionary classifies the term as offensive slang.[2] The term gringo does lend itself to derogatory, paternalistic or endearing connotations sometimes, depending on the context and the intent of the user. The enunciation of the word can often give away whether it was meant in a derogatory manner or not. However, many native speakers who use it do not do so pejoratively. There is also some variation in the connotation of this word from country to country within Latin America. In some regions of Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay and nearby areas, gringo is used nonpejoratively to refer to any European immigrant other than one from Spain or Portugal.

From Merriam-Webster:

Quote:

Main Entry: grin·go

Pronunciation: 'gri[ng]-(")gO

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural gringos

Etymology: Spanish, alteration of griego Greek, stranger, from Latin Graecus Greek

often disparaging : a foreigner in Spain or Latin America especially when of English or American origin; broadly : a non-Hispanic person

From the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary:

Quote:

gringo Show phonetics

noun [C] plural gringos INFORMAL DISAPPROVING

a foreigner in a Latin American country, especially one who speaks only English

From Encarta:

Quote:

grin·go (plural grin·gos)

noun

Definition:

Hispanic in Spain and Latin America, an offensive term for an English-speaking foreigner, especially a man

I didn't filter these at all to make any particular argument. It seems clear to me that there is a range of meanings and a range of usages to the term. You've chosen to take offense at something that wasn't intended to be offensive.

I hope Shane will choose to recognise how you're feeling and respond in some appropriate way, but I do *not* believe he should be coerced or moderated to do so.

[Bravus]

(I intentionally posted this in a separate post because it's a separate issue)

Frankly, Redwood, I found your assertion that 'every time I hear about a drink driving fatality it's an illegal [immigrant]' offensive and stereotyping. The statistics don't bear it out, so you are essentially slurring a particular group with such a comment. In the interests of having a Christian forum, would you like to withdraw or moderate that comment?

[Woody]

Name calling and the use of racial slurs should not be allowed in C/A. When that is done ... it should be discouraged.

[Bravus]

Agreed

[cricket]

If you must know, the reason I put the words "beautifully put" were because Shane posted in a "beautiful, romantic" language. At first, I stumbled on the word gringo, but after reading it, and studying online that the term is NOT meant to be offensive in any way, I concurred that it was NOT an offensive post.

Perhaps I should have clarified my intentions better, and for that, I apologize. Even so, I still believe wholeheartedly that Spanish, Italian, Latin and other languages are more beautiful than English and that it would do each of us a world of good to learn them.

[Naomi]

Name calling and the use of racial slurs should not be allowed in C/A. When that is done ... it should be discouraged.

Agreed. However, C/A has long been a place where "discussions" become heated and at times, cruel.

[Stan]

I find some of the discussion on some of these recent threads more distasteful than either word.

[lazarus]

Quote:

I find some of the discussion on some of these recent threads more distasteful than either word

Hey,

we could have a CA ethics committee, maybe we have one already. Maybe that committee could adjudicate words, meanings of words, the meanspiritedness of a post, inferences wrongly or rightly percieved. They could compile a list of banned words, phrases, topics, inferences and motives.

They could look at the length of time it takes for someone to reply to PM, bad spelling and even sloppy punctuation!

Its hard for me to judge Shane's comments because they were in Spanish. Can we have an English translation?

I think there are alot of crazy opinions expressed here, sometimes forcefull but generally respectful.

Redwood: I'm really surprised that you would find any racial slur offensive considering some of your previous posts.

[lazarus]

I've recently joined C/A. But I was surprised at the use of Racial Slurs by some of the members.

Do you have any more examples?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I've recently joined C/A. But I was surprised at the use of Racial Slurs by some of the members.

Do you have any more examples?

I'm totally opposed to putting down people with any kind of racial slur but when it comes to "gringo," the context determines whether that term is negative or positive. It just means white person. Gringito is actually a term of endearment for whites. It means the same as "bolillo" which means white bread. If they are used in anger or with the use of something in spanish meaning stupid, then of course that is a negative term. But just the use of gringo per se is nothing one should necessarily feel offended by. If Shawn used it in a negative way, then I agree he should apologize but I have read what he said, and it does not seem to me that he meant it to be offensive. Maybe he could explain it better himself, though.

But conversations here do sometimes get a bit heated. I like the fact that people are free within certain limits to say what is on their hearts. I don't always like what they say and I am sure some have not always liked what I have said, but I do like the freedom people have of expressing themselves about some issues about which there is a variety of rather strong emotional responses.

[Gail]

This is the first time I have ever seen "gringo" equated with the "n" word. I've seen it used in the contexts above that Bravus mentioned and that is how I've understood it.

Understanding that, I would not have taken it as being racist, myself. I thought that is what Mexicans call white people. And being a white person, I take no offense to it if it was being directed to me.

But it would be cool if we could try to be sensitive to others' feelings

[John317]

Quote:

I find some of the discussion on some of these recent threads more distasteful than either word

Hey,

we could have a CA ethics committee, maybe we have one already. Maybe that committee could adjudicate words, meanings of words, the meanspiritedness of a post, inferences wrongly or rightly percieved. They could compile a list of banned words, phrases, topics, inferences and motives.

They could look at the length of time it takes for someone to reply to PM, bad spelling and even sloppy punctuation!

Your point is very well taken, Lazarus. I agree with you that the freedom we enjoy here is worth having to endure a lot of mistakes and wrongs.

One way to look at it is that CA is in some ways God's testing ground for teaching us patience and the necessity of showing love and respect for people with opinions we don't happen to share or even for those who might use language in a way we dislike or don't understand. I think how we treat others we don't agree with is far more important than how we treat others we totally agree with.

[John317]

This is the first time I have ever seen "gringo" equated with the "n" word. I've seen it used in the contexts above that Bravus mentioned and that is how I've understood it.

Historically and linguistically it is not even in the same ball park. Simply put, one has a very close association with many centuries of denigrating and demeaning a race of people and the other does not. That is not to say gringo should be used in a negative way, of course.

[Woody]

I guess that my dictionary must not know anything. I should demand my money back for buying such a book.

[Taylor]

I grew up in latin countries and was called "gringo" all the time. I never understood it as a racial slur. Many "whites" refered to themselves as "gringo". There was another word for foreigner (probably in reference to the white skin color, though I am actually not sure) in Korea as well and it sounds something like "miguksaran" but they call you simply a "miguk". Actually in Korea we were also called "Aliens" which competely cracked me up as I have never seen myself as a little green person from Mars. I have never known the term either Gringo or Miguksaran to be used as a racial slur. Many foreignors use it in reference to themselves, and many times the locals use it as a term of endearment to the foreigner. I am sure it could be used in a sarcastic or hurtful way, as could any word, but I just haven't seen it used in any country in that way. On the other hand the "n" word has definately been used as a racial slur.

Any slur is never appropriate regardless whether it is in reference to skin color, level of education, level of income, or intelligence etc etc.

[Taylor]

The "g" word of course being "Gringo"

[cricket]

One dictionary is one resource. I wouldn't discard it entirely just yet. Certainly there is valuable information contained within it's binders. As with anything, however, additional resources can assist one in attaining a broader view of possibilities.

[Taylor]

Dictionaries, have also classified the word "gay" as meaning happy, which is true, but today's connotation is more likely to be that of sexual orientation, not an emotion. So sometimes words change meanings, given our changing society. Also, words can have different meanings to different people. For instance, as a child I was extremely slender. I didn't like being so slender so when my grandmother once said "I think you are getting a bit chubbier" I was thrilled and didn't take it as an insult. At my age now, no, I would not want to be chubby but in that context, it was a compliment.

[Taylor]

Also how can being called a "gringo" be any worse than being called a "latino".

Our youngest son, who is latino, has dark hair. When he was very small he wanted blond hair like his brother and maybe even have blue eyes. At times we called our oldest son "handsome little blondie" as an endearing term when we were cuddeling him such as "hows our little blondie" or "how is our precious little blue eyes" tonight? So the youngest wanted to be "blondie too". We pointed out to him that he was just as special. We had endearing things we call him that we couldn't call his brother such as "little sparkly cinomon eyes" or "our dark-haired hansome little boy". Soon they both learned to be satisfied with the way God made them. They are opposites in their coloring but both are cute. Now, the "blondie" wold love to have darker skin and not sunburn as easily. He knows it is "cool" in our society to be tan and it takes alot for him to tan. He is very satisfied with his hair, however. The youngest is very satisfied with his dark hair especially since he can spike it better than his brother due to it's texture. He also realizes that he can wear red better than his brother because of his complexion and since that is his favorite color he is glad he isn't blond. He still thinks blue eyes are neat but knows that one day, should he ever want blue eyes, he can get contacts to make them blue. In the mean time he takes delight in having brown eyes like both his adopted Dad and Mom.

[Woody]

I suppose the N word is fine also . Blacks call themselves that frequently. So ... we can add that word to the list of approved words. They use it also as a term of endearment.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Its hard for me to judge Shane's comments because they were in Spanish. Can we have an English translation?

Who better than the author to translate his own words?

El problema es que Redwood es demasiado gringo. Pero Dios lo ama a él todavía.

Pero los Estados Unidos es tan para todos y no solo una raza

The problem that Redwood is such an outsider [to the Spanish-speaking community]. But God still loves him.

The United States is big enough for everyone, not just one race.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

This is the first time I have ever seen "[theG-word]" equated with the "n" word.

In propper context it is more comparable to the modern use of the word yankee. It can be used in an offensive way but rarely is. Most often it is used in an endearing way. When I was an elder for a hispanic church they called me their gringo.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

I suppose the N word is fine also .

I think it would be highly offensive for members of a white church to refer to their only black member as "their [n-word]".

[Bravus]

Basically, we can do all the things Lazarus suggested... or we can each, within ourselves, seek to speak only in love. That's harder, and requires more maturity, and doesn't always work, but it's always been the goal and the ideal here.