Robert Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 It would be best if his picture could be seen not only here but at any church he goes to in order to stop him from molesting more children. If he is that bad then he needs to remain in prison. The problem is that everyone who has a sex offensive is not of not of the same mold as the man you described and deserves a chance at returning to a normal life after they do their time. This is true in any crime. The only people that need to know is employers who deal with children. Otherwise parents need to exercise their brains when it comes to leaving their children with folks. BTW, you did not mention porn and abortion. Why do these folks get off? Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Hi Robert. Pornography is a major problem in our culture, and it needs to be addressed openly in the church. People can be led out of that bondage. And they MUST be, to save them. Abortion kills two hearts. Only Jesus can bring life again to the adult. We need to address this problem openly as well. olger Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Abortion kills two hearts. Only Jesus can bring life again to the adult. We need to address this problem openly as well. Actually abortion kills one heart, but I understand your meaning. Here's the thing - a pedophile would be constantly harassed while in a church setting while a woman who had an abortion would find sympathy. She most likely wouldn't be shunned even though she committed the more heinous crime. Ironic, isn't it? Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Pornography is a major problem in our culture.... I would dare to say that it is a major problem within the church among males.....It's also a major catalyst for other sexual sins like the one being discussed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 10, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 10, 2007 Quote: If he is that bad then he needs to remain in prison. I know him personally because he's my two oldest kids' grandpa' date=' I hate to say. Quote: The problem is that everyone who has a sex offensive is not of not of the same mold as the man you described and deserves a chance at returning to a normal life after they do their time. This is true in any crime. The only people that need to know is employers who deal with children. Otherwise parents need to exercise their brains when it comes to leaving their children with folks. I agree with everything you said here. It's what I've been saying all along. I am not saying that people don't have a right to make their lives better after they come out of prison. I am only saying that it's only right that people know who the child moltesters are, because we can't assume they're rehabilited. Quote: BTW, you did not mention porn and abortion. Why do these folks get off?Robert[/quote'] I see a big difference between child rapists and molestors and people who may be doing things I dislike but which are legal under our current system. If's its child porn someone is either looking at or is making, they ought to be punished. If someone is getting or performing an abortion, the SDA church does not have an official stand on it. Our church leaves it up to each person or each doctor to decide. I personally am opposed to it, but I do believe women and the doctors have a responsibility before God that they must answer for. When my wife and I went into the a government clinic to find out if she was pregnant, I was horrified to hear the doctor's first question: Do you want to have this child? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted February 10, 2007 Author Moderators Share Posted February 10, 2007 In a "proof text culture" abortion, homosexuality, pornography, pedophelia are not easy to deal with. It takes more than a quote from EGW or even a text and a good talking to when trying to minister to someone seeking an abortion, for an example. Many times we do not address these issues becasue we simply don't have any answers. How does someone deal with pornography adiction, can a man be cured of his homosexuality? Do many churches have the capacity to lead a pedophile to a place of healing. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Quote: the SDA church does not have an official stand on it. Our church leaves it up to each person or each doctor to decide. That is not entirely correct. We do have a position on it. Abortion Quote: Adventists do not condone abortions for birth control, gender selection or convenience. And we do not believe those with a religious or ethical objection to abortions should have to participate in them. But when a woman faces exceptional circumstances of serious moral or medical dilemmas, she has the final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not. Attitudes of condemnation are inappropriate. Guidelines on Abortion Quote: The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 ... a pedophile would be constantly harassed while in a church setting while a woman who had an abortion would find sympathy. She most likely wouldn't be shunned even though she committed the more heinous crime. egads. Do what you feel in your heart to be right - for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Eleanor Roosevelt Quote Pam      Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Originally Posted By: Robert ... a pedophile would be constantly harassed while in a church setting while a woman who had an abortion would find sympathy. She most likely wouldn't be shunned even though she committed the more heinous crime. egads. I don't think either should be shunned, but what we should not do is to make one sin sinful and the other a matter of choice. That's hogwash. Sex with kids is sin. Murder is sin. Simple, huh? If one shuns the sexual predator then by all means be consistent and shun the murder also.* Rob * Abortion for convenience or birth control is murder, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 11, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 11, 2007 Quote: the SDA church does not have an official stand on it. Our church leaves it up to each person or each doctor to decide. That is not entirely correct. We do have a position on it. Yes, but as your quotes showed, the SDA church does not tell women that it is wrong to get an abortion per se, as many churches do. I didn't mean our church hasn't passed any resolutions on the topic. What I am saying is that it generally leaves it up to the individual woman to decide, as the last sentence of your quote says. I think our church has taken the right position here, although many non-SDA Christians would like our church to condemn all abortions. Because of the SDA view of religious freedom and of the dangers of forcing the conscience, the SDA church will almost always come down on the side of protecting individual rights to choose and against compelling people's conscience. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Because of the SDA view of religious freedom and of the dangers of forcing the conscience, the SDA church will almost always come down on the side of protecting individual rights to choose and against compelling people's conscience. Okay...then the pedophile should have a right to have consensual sex with a minor. Now I don't believe that at all, but if you are going to protect a woman's right to abort a healthy baby for convenience or birth control you are making a mockery of God's law. You are saying this isn't sin, but this is. Hyprocrisy to the highest order! If it's sin to have sex with kids it is sin to murder an infant, but we don't see the jails filled with women and doctors, do we? Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Quote: If it's sin to have sex with kids it is sin to murder an infant, but we don't see the jails filled with women and doctors, do we? This is because we as a nation and we as a church have not determined when the breath of life starts. I for one am not going to impose my belief ... which is the same as yours Robert ... on other people of different faiths and understanding. I do not believe that forced Christianity like the Jews had is what we want to promote. I think there is enough grey area here to not force my particular belief. IT is clearly not as Black and White as you might want to believe. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 11, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 11, 2007 In a "proof text culture" abortion, homosexuality, pornography, pedophelia are not easy to deal with. It takes more than a quote from EGW or even a text and a good talking to when trying to minister to someone seeking an abortion, for an example. Many times we do not address these issues becasue we simply don't have any answers. How does someone deal with pornography adiction, can a man be cured of his homosexuality? Do many churches have the capacity to lead a pedophile to a place of healing. Good questions but difficult to give definitive answers. I remember a few years back when William Loveless at the LLU Church talked about how many in the church have told him about the porn magazines hidden under their mattresses. We need to pray a lot about our fellow Christians' temptations in that area of their lives. I have no doubt that God is in the business of helping homosexuals overcome their sinful behavior, just as 1 Cor. 6:9-11 shows. That, however, is not the same as a "cure." I am sure God has cured people but a person has to learn to obey God's word even if God doesn't choose to cure him or her of his homosexual desires. I've learned to live with those desires and in fact they are constant reminders of my need of Christ in my life in order to do God's will. I feel Jesus' presence close to me and I know He understands and gives me power to overcome. I decide in those times that I don't want to let Jesus down; don't want to put Him to an open shame. I know Jesus is counting on me. It took years of struggle, falling, going to the cross and confessing, before I got to the point where I am now. There are many gays who still are falling. We need to pray for them and love them and show them that God is on their side, not rejecting them, as long as they are repentant and in submission to His will. Pedophilia is like homosexuality in the sense that it's probably rare that anyone is actually and completely "cured." I have a lot of empathy for pedophiles personally because I can relate to their struggles, but I treat their behavior differently than being gay because they are committing a crime upon a child, sometimes very violent crimes, which usually result in long-term, severe, emotional damage. Both pedophilia and homosexuality require years and years of intense therapy, prayer, Bible study, and a continuous giving over of one's life to God's will. The secret is never to give up. Never stop praying with them and for them. Yet, at the same time, as far as Pedophiles are concerned-- because it involves high degrees of manipulation and using children for sex-- never trust them with kids. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 This is because we as a nation and we as a church have not determined when the breath of life starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 This is because we as a nation...[has] not determined when the breath of life starts. Apparently it starts after 3 months for after that it's murder....Funny, ain't it, that those smart people came up with that time table? Boy, they sure are smart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 This is because we as a nation and we as a church have not determined when the breath of life starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 "How does someone deal with pornography adiction, can a man be cured of his homosexuality?" Thanks for the questions. We deal with it Biblically, in prayer. Yes. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 "How does someone deal with pornography adiction, can a man be cured of his homosexuality?" Both pornography and homosexuality come from mankind's perverted nature. A homosexual can live above his nature as he walks in the spirit. Someone who viewa pornography can be saved from his/her lust as he/she walks in the spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 11, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 11, 2007 Quote: Okay...then the pedophile should have a right to have consensual sex with a minor. Now I don't believe that at all, but if you are going to protect a woman's right to abort a healthy baby for convenience or birth control you are making a mockery of God's law. You are saying this isn't sin, but this is. Hyprocrisy to the highest order! If it's sin to have sex with kids it is sin to murder an infant, but we don't see the jails filled with women and doctors, do we? Robert[/quote'] Of course I believe it is sin for a woman to abort a healthy baby for convenience or as birth control. It would certainly be a sin if I did those things because I am convicted that it is wrong. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 11, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 11, 2007 Originally Posted By: olger "How does someone deal with pornography adiction, can a man be cured of his homosexuality?" Both pornography and homosexuality come from mankind's perverted nature. A homosexual can live above his nature as he walks in the spirit. Someone who viewa pornography can be saved from his/her lust as he/she walks in the spirit. Some people are born with homosexual leanings or even with a different brain than others of his/her gender, but there's no evidence to suggest that people are born with a desire to look at porn. In other words, if a person never looked at porn, like a person who never took drugs, they wouldn't ever become addicted to it. But homosexuality is different because we know now that it's often the result of processes that happen during early development of the brain, long before birth. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Quote: but as your quotes showed, the SDA church does not tell women that it is wrong to get an abortion per se, as many churches do. I see the following in the church's position: Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection or convenience are condemned (not condoned). Women getting abortions for such reasons are subject to church discipline. The woman must be the one to decide for significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. In these cases it is wrong for the church to judge or discipline a woman that chooses an abortion. Quote: The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted February 11, 2007 Author Moderators Share Posted February 11, 2007 The church's position is essentially pro-choice! The Adventist hospital in our area practices abortion on demand, I believe. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Some people are born with homosexual leanings or even with a different brain than others of his/her gender, but there's no evidence to suggest that people are born with a desire to look at porn. People lust...porn makes lusting easier.... Homosexuality is a result of sin. So is lusting....It doesn't matter. Sin is sin. Imperfection is imperfection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 The church's position is essentially pro-choice! The Adventist hospital in our area practices abortion on demand, I believe. So the teaching of the Adventist's church is pick your favorite sin and if we view it as sin we will treat you like trash, but if it's one of our "okay" sins then all is fine. Man, what hypocrisy! While it is true that Christians aren't under law, let's not diminish the law. Let's not deceive ourselves on the nature of sin.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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