Moderators Gerr Posted February 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2007 I thought God weighted all sins the same? No one sin greater than another. If God cannot see the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder, the difference between a felony and capital crime, then He is not as wise or just as we think. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Quote: All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 1 Jn 5:15 NKJ Quote: OR life if we decide to have Jesus's life in our place. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Quote: If God cannot see the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder, the difference between a felony and capital crime, then He is not as wise or just as we think. Quote: There may be some sins that hurt the Father more than others. But the results are the same. The question is do you want life in Jesus or Death with Satan? The result of sin without Christ is Death no matter what sin we are talking about. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2007 Quote: The question is do you want life in Jesus or Death with Satan? The question that was raised was whether one sin was greater or more serious than another. Quote: The result of sin without Christ is Death no matter what sin we are talking about. That I can agree with. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Quote: If God cannot see the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder, the difference between a felony and capital crime, then He is not as wise or just as we think. Gerry ... Since it is your belief that God can see the difference between a felony and a capital crime or first or second degree murder ... please tell us what you think the difference in the penalty will be when it comes time to decide who will join Jesus in heaven. Is a capital crime or felony beyond the scope of forgiveness? What about first or second degree murder. Which degree of murder did some of the biggest leaders in the Bible commit such as David and Moses. And what was the punishment by the church? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Quote: The question that was raised was whether one sin was greater or more serious than another. If God views one sin greater than another then how does he treat them differently. Is one beyond forgiveness? For instance is being gay a sin beyond forgiveness? OR would that be just murder that is beyond forgiveness? OR Maybe Jesus buries ALL sin not matter how severe ... in the depths of the sea. Perhaps he treats them all as equally forgiven when we come to Him. So ... I will ask again ... Does he treat them differently or does He just view sin as sin? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted February 27, 2007 Administrators Share Posted February 27, 2007 Isn't one of our arguments against an everburning hellfire that it wouldn't be fair to punish everyone in hell forever, that the war crimes leaders would burn just as long as those who stole through hunger? I thought that EGW writes that we are punished in proportion to the severity of the sinful life each person has lived- that Satan would burn the longest. Is anyone else familiar with that? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted February 27, 2007 Administrators Share Posted February 27, 2007 As far as I know, the only sin not forgiveable is that of grieving the Holy Spirit Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2007 Quote: If God views one sin greater than another then how does he treat them differently. Is one beyond forgiveness? For instance is being gay a sin beyond forgiveness? OR would that be just murder that is beyond forgiveness? To paraphrase Paul, "where sin abounded, grace much more abound!" There is no sin so heinous that God cannot forgive if repented. The ONLY sin mentioned in Scripture is the sin against the Holy Spirit. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2007 Quote: Quote: If God cannot see the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder, the difference between a felony and capital crime, then He is not as wise or just as we think. Gerry ... Since it is your belief that God can see the difference between a felony and a capital crime or first or second degree murder ... please tell us what you think the difference in the penalty will be when it comes time to decide who will join Jesus in heaven. Is a capital crime or felony beyond the scope of forgiveness? What about first or second degree murder. Which degree of murder did some of the biggest leaders in the Bible commit such as David and Moses. And what was the punishment by the church? Read my other post. No sin beyond forgiveness except the sin against the Holy Spirit. Only God can truly judge the severity of each sin. But I can never believe that stealing is on the same level as murder. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Quote: But I can never believe that stealing is on the same level as murder. Yes. It is hard to believe but that is what the Bible teaches. No matter what sin we commit ... the wages of that individual sin is DEATH. That is why ALL of us need to accept our Saviour in Jesus Christ. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 28, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 28, 2007 Quote: But I can never believe that stealing is on the same level as murder. Yes. It is hard to believe but that is what the Bible teaches. No matter what sin we commit ... the wages of that individual sin is DEATH. That is why ALL of us need to accept our Saviour in Jesus Christ. My Bible says these are especially abominable to Him: "a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speak lies, and one who sows discord among brethren." Prov 6:16-19 NKJ. "And that servant who KNEW his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask more." Lk 12:47,48 NKJ. "And if a person sins UNINTENTIONALLY, then he shall bring a female goat in its first year as a sin offering. So the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins UNINTENTIONALLY....and it shall be forgiven him............But the person who does anything PRESUMPTUOUSLY, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the LORD, and he shall be cut off from among his people." Nu 15:27,28,30 NKJ. All sins of the same severity? Judge ye. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Gerry ... please specify which sins are not able to be forgiven if sin is not sin. What make all sin equal is that all sins are forgiven as long as we accept Jesus as our Saviour. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 28, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 28, 2007 Gerry ... please specify which sins are not able to be forgiven if sin is not sin. What make all sin equal is that all sins are forgiven as long as we accept Jesus as our Saviour. Gail & I have already mentioned it - grieving the Spirit away. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Then we agree !!!... Sin is Sin. They are all the same in that they are all forgiven by the blood of Christ. And that is all that matters. We are all now sons and daughters of God . Perfectly forgiven in Christ who will work out all the imperfections before we go to heaven. When we see His face we will be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 28, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 28, 2007 Then we agree !!!... I don't think so. I don't believe a person ticketed for speeding should get the same amount of fine or jail time as a murderer. What you are saying is that the violations are the same in the sense that they are both punished. They may both deserve punishment, but the degree or amount of punishment is NOT the same. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Originally Posted By: Redwood Then we agree !!!... I don't think so. I don't believe a person ticketed for speeding should get the same amount of fine or jail time as a murderer. What you are saying is that the violations are the same in the sense that they are both punished. They may both deserve punishment, but the degree or amount of punishment is NOT the same. Gerry The degree or amount of punishment IS the same. The punishment is Death no matter what sin it is. So ... unless you want death ... you will have to accept the sacrifice of Jesus and have his life His life judged in the place or yours. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 28, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 28, 2007 Cain is known to have killed one man, Stalin, millions. They are both sentenced to die (we have no record of repentance). Will their suffering be the same? Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Death is death Gerry. We are either for God or against Him. What matters to me is that I am for God. I do not wish to be outside the Love of God. So ... either you have salvation or you don't. There is no middle ground of a little salvation or 3/4 salvation. Unless you have forgiveness of your little sin ... you do not have salvation. What is more important than that? The suffering is that we will be apart from God. All without the Blood will experience that. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted February 28, 2007 Administrators Share Posted February 28, 2007 The wages of sin is death, the end product extinction, but God is merciful even in the degree of suffering each sinner does. The Bible says that God rewards man according to his works (Matt.16:27). When the Bible uses the word "according" I understand that generally to mean "in proportion to" ie- "According to your faith be it unto you" Matt.9:29 But yeah, I think we all agree that the end result will be the same, because death is the wage sin earns. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Quote: God rewards man according to his works This is a good point Gail. It brings to question what is OUR work? Some feel that it is our "work" to live a perfect life without sin. Others believe that our "work" is to accept the blood of Jesus in our place by maintaining a relationship with Jesus. This is at the heart of the debate of "relationship" or "works" as a means of salvation. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 28, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 28, 2007 Death is death Gerry. A person goes to bed and does not wake up. Another dies over a period of one painful year. Same death? Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted February 28, 2007 Administrators Share Posted February 28, 2007 Quote: This is a good point Gail. It brings to question what is OUR work? Some feel that it is our "work" to live a perfect life without sin. Others believe that our "work" is to accept the blood of Jesus in our place by maintaining a relationship with Jesus. This is at the heart of the debate of "relationship" or "works" as a means of salvation. Works, and work as you've described it, are two different things. We are rewarded according to the output we've produced. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Originally Posted By: Redwood Death is death Gerry. A person goes to bed and does not wake up. Another dies over a period of one painful year. Same death? Gerry Yes Gerry ... Same Death. You appear to confuse life and death. The person who has a painful life ... still has to die just like the person who had a sudden death. Life is when you have breath. Death is when you don't have breath. We are all dying some slower than others but that is life. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Quote: This is a good point Gail. It brings to question what is OUR work? Some feel that it is our "work" to live a perfect life without sin. Others believe that our "work" is to accept the blood of Jesus in our place by maintaining a relationship with Jesus. This is at the heart of the debate of "relationship" or "works" as a means of salvation. Works, and work as you've described it, are two different things. We are rewarded according to the output we've produced. The way I read scripture Salvation is offered to all equally who accept Jesus as their Savior. I guess some might have more stars in their crowns but that is the only difference that I know of. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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