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We don't talk about the BIG sins.. the REALLY BIG


Stan

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Neil D you have made some very good points that I agree with.In fact ... I don't see anything that you have said that I would disagree with. If we as a church can't stand on the Bible and the Bible alone ... then we are just a Cult.

And you still haven't clarified what you mean by "Sin is sin"....

Look, when I said-

So, I have a hard time believing that 'sin is sin'...as I tend to think that it is more of a writing convenience than a thoughtful idea...

Therefore, I conclude that sin IS NOT sin...

...you jumped all over me... And when I pointed out that sin is not sin, but more of a writing convience than a thoughtful idea, you posted some really OUT OF CONTEXT material...

So, I think, after all this *s*t*u*f*f* that you were 'so kind' to post, that I deserve, at least, a clarification of what you mean when you say that 'sin is sin'....

Is it as you have agreed with Gerry, that "sin is sin" is also greaving the Holy Spirit? Or when you posted that "you agree with me", that you now agreeing with me that Sin is Not sin?

Which is it? You are becoming more and more confusing....And please clarify the phrase "Sin is sin"....

Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.

 

George Bernard Shaw

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hmm... I just got here, and haven't read everything everyone's said in all these pages for this thread, but one thought struck me: something I don't hear people talking much about is how Forgiveness relates to all of this. If Agape Love is 100% Forgiveness, then can we expect Forgiveness of God, ourselves, and each other in the brotherhood? And can we Forgive others when they don't Forgive us? Can we come to a place where we truly Know we are Free from guilt and shame, and we are restored? What comes after Salvation, aside from evangelizing? Can we come to a place where Forgiveness becomes a default within the church?

The only failing of the human spirit is in not knowing Who's you truly are, and that the Love is real. Love fearlessly.

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Can we come to a place where Forgiveness becomes a default within the church?

If we are to forgive ... the church would need to change the Church Manual which states that even after a members sincere confession and repentance ... the church can disfellowship it's members to protect the fair name of the church.

Apparently the "fair" name of the church is more important than forgiveness.

So ... like I say ... the church needs to lead the way to change it's policy about forgiveness if it's members are going to reflect it.

May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.
 

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The Sanctification happens when we see His face at the Second Coming.

Redwood,

I agree that we will never be completely free of our sinful natures until Jesus returns. But the Bible speaks of sanctification as a present condition.

1Corinthians 6:11 But you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1Corinthians 1:2 to the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called out with all those in every place who call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours.

2Timothy 2:21 Therefore if anyone purges himself from these, he shall be a vessel to honor, sanctified and useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

Heb 2:11 For both He who sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of One, for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brothers,

Sister White also stated, "Sanctification is the work of a lifetime." Christ's Object Lessons, page 65

The event to which you refer is the culmination of the process of sanctification, which begins during our lifetime here. It is not something we do for ourselves, it is something God does in us.

Catherine

God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26.

"To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis

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It begins now and finishes then. It happens when we see His face. That is the completion. Something is not whole until it is completed. You may have a portion of it now but it will be whole when we see His face.

May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.
 

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Can we come to a place where Forgiveness becomes a default within the church?

If we are to forgive ... the church would need to change the Church Manual which states that even after a members sincere confession and repentance ... the church can disfellowship it's members to protect the fair name of the church.

Apparently the "fair" name of the church is more important than forgiveness.

So ... like I say ... the church needs to lead the way to change it's policy about forgiveness if it's members are going to reflect it.

Thanks, Redwood. I've always agreed with what you just said, though I'll admit, that agreement has been a work in progress, since the time I was small. I understand it more and more as I Grow Spiritually. I'm not perfect in practicing it, God Knows that, but I definitely agree.

One thing that's always bothered me is the idea that human beings have to answer to each other in an "all repentive" way. As if we have any power over each other. Really, that's not what the Kingdom of Heaven is about. It seems to me that human beings forgiving each other ought to have not so much to do with the injured (or fearful) party having the power to hold things over others' heads, as it has to do with an agreement by the membership to simply accept it that, chances are, no one really meant to hurt anyone or do anything wrong - and that people ought to be treated like human beings regardless of what they've done. The idea that church is a place to go to "get away from" the world, to me, is not Biblical. Even in the church, we are still in the world. Otherwise, how can we expect sinners to even remotely want to darken our doors? We're all sinners anyway, throughout our lives, even after "conversion." To me, it's not about our being perfect people - it's about our Knowing that we're Loved no matter what we do (so it's kinda silly to intentionally hurt others), and in that way, we are Seen, by God and others, and ourselves, as "Perfect" in our own human imperfections.

Many Blessings from Yeshua (Jesus) and have a great Sabbath :)

The only failing of the human spirit is in not knowing Who's you truly are, and that the Love is real. Love fearlessly.

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Redwood, it appears to me that to you the word "sanctification" means the final result, but to me the word applies to the process. But other than the variation in definition, we are in agreement as to what happens in a believer's life. I am glad to know that.

Catherine

God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26.

"To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis

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One thing that's always bothered me is the idea that human beings have to answer to each other in an "all repentive" way. As if we have any power over each other.

It was taught by the Jews that before God's love is extended to the sinner, he must first repent. In their view repentance is a work by which men earn the favor of Heaven. And it was this thought that led the Pharisees to exclaim in astonishment and anger."This man receiveth sinners." Acording to their ideas He should permit none to approach him but those who had repented. But in the parable of the lost sheep Christ teaches that salvation deoes not come through our seeking after God but through God's seeking after us." There is none that understandeth, there is one that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way"Rom.3:12,12 We do not repent in order that God may love us, but He reveals to us His Love in order that we may repent." COL 188-9

Again .... I ask why does our church require certain demonstrated good works and repentance. Why do we not even accept "sincere confession"? It was the Pharaisees view that "repentance is a work by which men earn the favor of Heaven".

SDA Minister's Manual .... P. 125 " So while we cannot expect a lot of fruit in the prebaptismal life of the candidate, neverless some fruit must be visible. Surely this fruit should include Sabbath keeping, church attendance, and refraining from the use of harmful substances.

Are these the three pillars that our church is built on?

May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.
 

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Redwood, it appears to me that to you the word "sanctification" means the final result, but to me the word applies to the process. But other than the variation in definition, we are in agreement as to what happens in a believer's life. I am glad to know that.

The problem is that there are some that feel our sanctification here on this earth is of some value for salvation. They also require it and feel it must be perfectly achieved here on earth. But Ellen White warned us about that ...

Talking of early Adventist extremists. "They held that those who are sanctified cannot sin. And this naturally led to the belief that the affections and desires of the sanctified ones were always right".

Life Sketches p 83-4

This is what we must guard against.

May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.
 

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We can divide sanctification into two parts. The first part is very small in comparison to the last. What He does in our lives on this Earth do not amount to much.

"His character will be reproduced in our nature, thus shall we bring forth fruits of the Holy Spirit .... some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred." COL 60

Can you imagine what they will be when we see His face and are taken to Heaven???

When we go to Heaven ... we will have sinful and faulty characters. We can't very well take our characters with us ... they will have to have a major rehaul when we see Jesus.

"I will be your representative in Heaven. The Father beholds NOT your FAULTY character, but He sees you as clothed in My perfection". DA 357

What kind of character will those who go to Heaven Have???

FAULTY. So ... sanctification needs to be accomplished when we see Jesus.

May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.
 

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Can I offer a different perspective on sanctification, and the idea that we won't take our characters with us to Heaven? If the Kingdom of Heaven is based on Forgiveness, here on earth, and if things are done here on earth as they are in Heaven, then wouldn't it make some logical sense that our "putting on that incorruption and immortality" means that in the wink of an eye, we'll forever understand that we and everyone else there are Forgiven and Loved no matter how badly we make mistakes once we get there?

I don't know about you, but on my old age death bed, I'm not going to claim to know the first thing about what "the rules" are for living perfectly in Heaven. It's a whole different environment up there from what it is down here. There won't even be super-markets, as we know them. It's going to take us all awhile, I think, to really Understand how God wants things done. And I'm starting to guess that some of us might make little mistakes along the way. Will any of our lives be in jeopardy just because one of us might not know at first that perhaps the Sea of Glass isn't for swimming in after all? Etc.

All I know is this: my heart's in the right place, and that is my character, and I do make mistakes all the time, for better or worse. In fact, my character is who I am. The me that's been Saved, in all it's imperfection, by the Blood of the Lamb. That's as true here on earth as it is in Heaven. I do believe that Heaven is a place of Forgiveness - that's what the whole thing about Jesus being our High Priest at the moment, someone who always Forgives and Understands us, is all about. He's our King, and He's the one who Authored Forgiveness for us. I can't imagine that He'd all the sudden stop Forgiving one of His Kids, just because they didn't yet understand how things work up in Heaven.

I can even apply this to small children who die young, and will be in Heaven. They'll make mistakes, lots of them. He said that we are to be like little children or else we can't be part of that Kingdom. So, I think we will be. We'll have to look to Him for Guidance up there, rather than relying on our own ability to know right from wrong. Personally, I'm kind of thinking that's how it should be here too. Just our looking to Him, by Knowing Him by heart and Listening for His still small Voice in our hearts. We might spend the rest of our lives learning how to do that, but you know, I'm guessing that we'll still be learning that skill in Heaven. I'm at the moment of the pursuasion that that "incorruptible" is the description of how He'll see us, even when we make mistakes. Because we are His Kids who just need correction, not annihilation.

That doesn't mean that He won't correct us, but I do think that means that death no longer has it's sting, that the wages of sin (before sin, now just mistakes, because now we Belong to Him) have been Paid, and that we won't have to be ashamed when we do mess up. We'll be like little children are before mom and dad start making a lot of new rules for them. We'll be people who try to follow the rules as best as possible, but we'll know that if we mess up, God won't start hating us for it. Actually, I kind of believe that's the way it already is, for those who truly Believe in His Love for us. That God still loves us in spite of ourselves, corrects us without condemning us, and doesn't want us to live in fear of His burning us in the end with hellfire anymore. He wants us to Know Him more Intimately than that, and to realize that Perfect Love casts out all fear - Forever.

Otherwise, there seems to be no point in Jesus' Sacrifice in the first place, if it doesn't cover our mistakes throughout our lives, in this life and the next, too.

Of course, that's just an idea. I could be way off base here. I mean, sure, we might become perfect people who never make any mistakes. We might automatically know all the rules when we get there, or perhaps God will have signs everywhere telling us where we can swim and where we can't. I have no idea, I haven't been there yet. I guess all I'm saying is that the idea of relying on our own understanding of His Laws has been tried already, and it tends to be a miserable failure whenever anyone attempts it -- and we do have His Spirit with us now, just as we will then, so just saying "I have the Spirit with me" doesn't mean that we can't/won't make mistakes along the way. We always do, and it will always happen, mainly because that's just life, at least here on earth. I'm guessing that it might be somewhat like that up in Heaven too. As I said, I could be wrong about that.

I'm just having a hard time believing that God will want us to rely on our own then-perfected characters for always doing things right. It's just easier for me to Believe that we'll simply be relying on His character that was shown us on the cross, the one that Eternally Forgives all our mistakes, Loves us Dearly, and can't stand to Live without any of us. In the end, I'm wondering how much it really matters to us now, since it hasn't all happened yet. Yes, I believe that we should do our best to follow Him, the Living Him who's Spirit is inside us. But I've just kind of had it with trying of my own accord to always be right, always be perfect, etc. I'm just incapable of doing that, and I am Saved, because I Believe in the cross and the Forgiveness that is always offered to me, especially in my worst moments. That's True Love. That's my Jesus.

The only failing of the human spirit is in not knowing Who's you truly are, and that the Love is real. Love fearlessly.

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One thing that's always bothered me is the idea that human beings have to answer to each other in an "all repentive" way. As if we have any power over each other.

Again .... I ask why does our church require certain demonstrated good works and repentance. Why do we not even accept "sincere confession"? It was the Pharaisees view that "repentance is a work by which men earn the favor of Heaven".

Honestly, I think it's out of fear. Imperfection is feared in church, above all else. Humanity is feared. But not by all. There are those in church (and not in church too) who accept people as they really are, Love and Forgive them, and who never tell them "You have to be perfect in order to fit in around here." To me, that's Real Love. Everything else is a fake fantasy that I want no part in.

The only failing of the human spirit is in not knowing Who's you truly are, and that the Love is real. Love fearlessly.

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One thing that's always bothered me is the idea that human beings have to answer to each other in an "all repentive" way. As if we have any power over each other.

It was taught by the Jews that before God's love is extended to the sinner, he must first repent. In their view repentance is a work by which men earn the favor of Heaven. And it was this thought that led the Pharisees to exclaim in astonishment and anger."This man receiveth sinners." Acording to their ideas He should permit none to approach him but those who had repented.

Just a quick question: what is your historical reference to what the Jews taught about God's Forgiveness, and why the Pharisees exclaimed this?

Also, my belief is that Forgiveness is always offered, but that it can't be enjoyed until it's accepted by the sinner who wants it because they are sorry. It's been offered since before the world was created - the Plan wasn't devised after Adam and Eve sinned. Forgiveness was accomplished on the cross, but it was always on God's heart. It doesn't start being offered as soon as a sinner decides they want Heaven more than some pleasant sin. They just aren't able to feel Forgiven until they really Believe that they are Forgiven. Once they Know they're forgiven, and no longer condemned but Accepted, they are guiltless for even the worst crimes, though I'm sure that when restitution can be made, they'll want to do that out of Love, not out of fear of condemnation, and they won't rely on acts of restitution for their value or their Salvation.

The only failing of the human spirit is in not knowing Who's you truly are, and that the Love is real. Love fearlessly.

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  • 4 months later...

I once got brave and asked God to show me what I lacked (like the rich young ruler). As I often do when asking God a direct question, I opened the Bible to search for His answer. Now at the time I did this, I was alone in a remote cabin where I often retreated. As I opened the Bible, my eyes fell on Proberbs 18:1 "A man who isolates himself seeks his own desire; He rages against all wise judgement."

Since I was isolating myself at the time, it seemed as personal as if God had audibly spoken to me. Ok, I could admit that maybe I was a little self centered... but raging against all wise judgement? I couldn't see myself raging against anything. So I dismissed the 2nd part.

5 months later I was fired from my job for insubordination and this text came immediately to my mind! If only I had examined myself and accepted God's judgment earlier!

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wow that is an amazing story psgodluvsu! And it takes humbelness to share that story so I suspect you have learned something from this experience.

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Redwood, it is not enough simply to accept Jesus as our substitute (justification). We must also surrender our hearts to be changed by His Spirit (sanctification).

"God does not regard all sins as of equal magnitude; there are degrees of guilt in His estimation, as well as in that of man; but however trifling this or that wrong act may seem in the eyes of men, no sin is small in the sight of God. Man's judgment is partial, imperfect; but God estimates all things as they really are. The drunkard is despised and is told that his sin will exclude him from heaven; while pride, selfishness, and covetousness too often go unrebuked. But these are sins that are especially offensive to God; for they are contrary to the benevolence of His character, to that unselfish love which is the very atmosphere of the uncalled universe. He who falls into some of the grosser sins may feel a sense of his shame and poverty and his need of the grace of Christ; but pride feels no need, and so it closes the heart against Christ and the infinite blessings He came to give.

The poor publican who prayed, "God be merciful to me a sinner" (Luke 18:13), regarded himself as a very wicked man, and others looked upon him in the same light; but he felt his need, and with his burden of guilt and shame he came before God, asking for His mercy. His heart was open for the Spirit of God to do its gracious work and set him free from the power of sin. The Pharisee's boastful, self-righteous prayer showed that his heart was closed against the influence of the Holy Spirit. Because of his distance from God, he had no sense of his own defilement, in contrast with the perfection of the divine holiness. He felt no need, and he received nothing.

If you see your sinfulness, do not wait to make yourself better. How many there are who think they are not good enough to come to Christ. Do you expect to become better through your own efforts? "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil." Jeremiah 13:23. There is help for us only in God. We must not wait for stronger persuasions, for better opportunities, or for holier tempers. We can do nothing of ourselves. We must come to Christ just as we are.

But let none deceive themselves with the thought that God, in His great love and mercy, will yet save even the rejecters of His grace. The exceeding sinfulness of sin can be estimated only in the light of the cross. When men urge that God is too good to cast off the sinner, let them look to Calvary. It was because there was no other way in which man could be saved, because without this sacrifice it was impossible for the human race to escape from the defiling power of sin, and be restored to communion with holy beings,--impossible for them again to become partakers of spiritual life,--it was because of this that Christ took upon Himself the guilt of the disobedient and suffered in the sinner's stead. The love and suffering and death of the Son of God all testify to the terrible enormity of sin and declare that there is no escape from its power, no hope of the higher life, but through the submission of the soul to Christ.

The impenitent sometimes excuse themselves by saying of professed Christians, "I am as good as they are. They are no more self-denying, sober, or circumspect in their conduct than I am. They love pleasure and self-indulgence as well as I do." Thus they make the faults of others an excuse for their own neglect of duty. But the sins and defects of others do not excuse anyone, for the Lord has not given us an erring human pattern. The spotless Son of God has been given as our example, and those who complain of the wrong course of professed Christians are the ones who should show better lives and nobler examples. If they have so high a conception of what a Christian should be, is not their own sin so much the greater? They know what is right, and yet refuse to do it.

Beware of procrastination. Do not put off the work of forsaking your sins and seeking purity of heart through Jesus. Here is where thousands upon thousands have erred to their eternal loss. I will not here dwell upon the shortness and uncertainty of life; but there is a terrible danger--a danger not sufficiently understood--in delaying to yield to the pleading voice of God's Holy Spirit, in choosing to live in sin; for such this delay really is. Sin, however, small it may be esteemed, can be indulged in only at the peril of infinite loss. What we do not overcome, will overcome us and work out our destruction.

Adam and Eve persuaded themselves that in so small a matter as eating of the forbidden fruit there could not result such terrible consequences as God had declared. But this small matter was the transgression of God's immutable and holy law, and it separated man from God and opened the floodgates of death and untold woe upon our world. Age after age there has gone up from our earth a continual cry of mourning, and the whole creation groaneth and travaileth together in pain as a consequence of man's disobedience. Heaven itself has felt the effects of his rebellion against God. Calvary stands as a memorial of the amazing sacrifice required to atone for the transgression of the divine law. Let us not regard sin as a trivial thing.

Every act of transgression, every neglect or rejection of the grace of Christ, is reacting upon yourself; it is hardening the heart, depraving the will, benumbing the understanding, and not only making you less inclined to yield, but less capable of yielding, to the tender pleading of God's Holy Spirit." Steps To Christ, pp. 30-33

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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We can divide sanctification into two parts. The first part is very small in comparison to the last. What He does in our lives on this Earth do not amount to much.

"His character will be reproduced in our nature, thus shall we bring forth fruits of the Holy Spirit .... some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred." COL 60

Can you imagine what they will be when we see His face and are taken to Heaven???

When we go to Heaven ... we will have sinful and faulty characters. We can't very well take our characters with us ... they will have to have a major rehaul when we see Jesus.

"I will be your representative in Heaven. The Father beholds NOT your FAULTY character, but He sees you as clothed in My perfection". DA 357

What kind of character will those who go to Heaven Have???

FAULTY. So ... sanctification needs to be accomplished when we see Jesus.

Holiness by and by?

"Without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12:14 NIV

"His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness..." 2 Pe 1:3

"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds BECAUSE OF YOUR EVIL BEHAVIOR, but now he has reconciled you by

Christ's physical body through death to present you HOLY in His sight, WITHOUT BLEMISH AND FREE FROM ACCUSATION -- IF YOU CONTINUE in your faith, ESTABLISHED AND FIRM, NOT MOVED from the hope held out in the gospel." Col 2:21-23 NIV

Gerry

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Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGrammaRedwood, it is not enough simply to accept Jesus as our substitute (justification). We must also surrender our hearts to be changed by His Spirit (sanctification).

the way i sees it simply acceptin' jesus as our sub. is surrendering - lest one then tries to sanctify the self by the self - which imho is not accepting jesus

dAb

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!

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"Without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12:14 NIV

yeah - but it is not a holiness of one's own - it is god's holiness which one must accept - for one has no holiness of one's own - for one has died - remember - one has died - a dead person can have no holiness - 'for i have died and i no longer live but christ lives ' said the apostle paul

<< his divine power has given us everything we need >>

yeah - namely himself -

dAb

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!

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Quote:
"Without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12:14 NIV

yeah - but it is not a holiness of one's own - it is god's holiness which one must accept - for one has no holiness of one's own - for one has died - remember - one has died - a dead person can have no holiness - 'for i have died and i no longer live but christ lives ' said the apostle paul

<< his divine power has given us everything we need >>

yeah - namely himself -

I agree, but let's explore whether you really meant what I understood you to have said.

Does Christ living in you change you?

From an adulterer to a faithful spouse?

From a thief to an honest wage-earner?

From a warmonger to a peacemaker?

In short, from a law-breaker to a law-keeper?

Or do you just mean that you have accepted

the righteousness of Jesus put into your

account without affecting your way of living

one iota?

Gerry

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Quote:
"Without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12:14 NIV

yeah - but it is not a holiness of one's own - it is god's holiness which one must accept - for one has no holiness of one's own - for one has died - remember - one has died - a dead person can have no holiness - 'for i have died and i no longer live but christ lives ' said the apostle paul

>

yeah - namely himself -

Yes, God alone IS righteousness and IS holiness. Apart from Christ, we have no holiness.

There is a sense in which Christians who put their faith in Christ and in His righteousness are immediately "holy," or "sanctified." That is to say, the believer is immediately set apart from the common for God's holy purposes. We become God's own possession. We become his.

But the Bible uses "holy," or "sanctified," in another way, also, and that is that we are to seperate ourselves from sin, that is, from everything that is in opposition to God's will and character. The ability to do it, of course, comes only from the Holy Spirit, but we have to make the decision to do it. It's a choice we make every day, 24/7, a life-long process. It is one of the main lessons God was teaching His people in the book of Leviticus and a lesson He teaches in Hebrews and Revelation. A phrase that is found over and again in Leviticus and is quoted in the New Testament is, "You must be holy, for I the Lord am holy."

Romans 6: 22: "But now that you have been freed from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit that you have leads to sanctification, [or holiness] and its end is eternal life."

1 Thess. 5: 23: "May the God of peace himself make you perfectly holy [or sanctified] and may you entirely, spirit, soul, and body, be preserved blameless for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (Also read v. 24!)

2 Peter 3: 11-14: "Since everything is to be dissolved in this way, what sort of persons ought you to be, conducting yourself in holiness and devotion, waiting for and hastening he coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved in flames and the elements melted by fire. But according to his promise we await new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you await these things, be eager to be found without spot or blemish before him, at peace."

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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Through His spirit, God's holiness can become ours - by choosing Him. This is the undoing of rebellion, the consecration of faith.

"Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit."

"Please don't feed the drama queens.."

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Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGrammaRedwood, it is not enough simply to accept Jesus as our substitute (justification). We must also surrender our hearts to be changed by His Spirit (sanctification).

the way i sees it simply acceptin' jesus as our sub. is surrendering - lest one then tries to sanctify the self by the self - which imho is not accepting jesus

... for He says," AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU,AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU."Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME," behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION"-- 2 Cor 6:2 NASB Emph theirs LHC

"....Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD...which He will work for you today" Exodus 14:13 KJV, AMP

"[Jesus] journeyed on through towns and villages, teaching, and making His way toward Jerusalem.

And someone asked Him, Lord, will only a few be saved (rescued, delivered from the penalties of the last judgment, and made partakers of the salvation by Christ)? And He said to them,

Strive to enter by the narrow door [force yourselves through it], for many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.

When once the Master of the house gets up and closes the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door [again and again], saying, Lord, open to us! He will answer you, I do not know where...you come from.

Then you will begin to say, We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.

But He will say, I tell you, I do not know where [what household--certainly not Mine] you come from; depart from Me, all you wrongdoers!" Luke 13:22-27 AMP

"And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning to salvation, in sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth..." 2 Thess 2:13 YLT

Two questions come to mind. If now is the day of salvation and salvation is of the Lord, from what is it we are to be saved and why should I be content to wait for some undeterminate time in the future for something He is willing to begin giving me today?

"Daily also continuing with one accord in the temple, breaking also at every house bread, they were partaking of food in gladness and simplicity of heart,

praising God, and having favour with all the people, and the Lord was adding those being saved every day to the assembly." Acts 2:46-47 YLT

Regards! flower

Lift Jesus up!!

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I once got brave and asked God to show me what I lacked (like the rich young ruler). As I often do when asking God a direct question, I opened the Bible to search for His answer. Now at the time I did this, I was alone in a remote cabin where I often retreated. As I opened the Bible, my eyes fell on Proberbs 18:1 "A man who isolates himself seeks his own desire; He rages against all wise judgement."

Since I was isolating myself at the time, it seemed as personal as if God had audibly spoken to me. Ok, I could admit that maybe I was a little self centered... but raging against all wise judgement? I couldn't see myself raging against anything. So I dismissed the 2nd part.

5 months later I was fired from my job for insubordination and this text came immediately to my mind! If only I had examined myself and accepted God's judgment earlier!

This to me is living with respect to the Word and allowing the Holy Spirit to tell you how to apply it to your life. God bless you in your efforts.

"A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels" Proverbs 1:5 KJV

Blessings! flower

Lift Jesus up!!

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  • 6 years later...

The really big one is when you've been sexually abused by a Conference Member. Where's the outreach for the known women, who probably can point to more unknown women. There is NONE.

Psalms19:12-14 Lord my saviour

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