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Governor General of Jamaica, the Most Honourable Sir Patrick Allen endorsed OSAY (Operation Save a Youth), an initiative of the Youth Department of Central Jamaica Conference of Seventh-day Adventists (CJC), as a worthy partner to his iBelieve initiative. The endorsement was made during a courtesy call on Sir Patrick by a delegation from CJC on Friday, February 20, 2015. View the full article

As the masses argue about their rhetorical differences our governments quietly continue work on their real agenda: AMERICAN AND BRITISH spies hacked into the internal computer network of the largest manufacturer of SIM cards in the world, stealing encryption keys used to protect the privacy of cellphone communications across the globe, according to top-secret documents provided to The Intercept by National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden. The hack was perpetrated by a joint unit consisting of operatives from the NSA and its British counterpart Government Communications Headquarters, or GCHQ. The breach, detailed in a secret 2010 GCHQ document, gave the surveillance agencies the potential to secretly monitor a large portion of the world’s cellular communications, including both voice and data. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/19/great-sim-heist/

Earlier, I established a thread on The One Project--San Diego. That thread has morphed into a general discussion. I was a big contributor to that. For future posts, please keep the San Diego thread to that and for general posts on TOP, please post them here. Thanks. As you will note, I have moved a number of posts from the San Diego thread to this one.

Adam had to offer a lamb. Did he build an altar? The picture we see of Cain's offering is on square grey dull stones. I've been thinking, those stones we are used to are from flood results, In Eden stones were gold, silver, emierald, opal, saphire etc. I think IF they did build an altar it would have been stunning, and I doubt if they were square.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/yearwithoutgod/2015/02/17/when-criticism-becomes-harmful/ All that being said, there is another kind of criticism (if I can even call it that) that is libelous and damaging to others. On January 1, the flagship magazine of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Adventist Review, published an article about my experience under the painfully condescending title, “Concern, Compassion, and Hope for Ex-Adventist Pastor Who Left God.” The article is badly conceived, poorly written, and lacking in basic logic, but what concerns me more than anything is the potential harm that the author and others like him can do to other unsuspecting individuals who might trust themselves to his care. It recently came to my attention again because apparently the editors of Adventist Review deemed the article worth of putting in the print edition of the magazine. In the piece, Don Mackintosh says he’s concerned for me because my “journey, while couched in religious jargon, shows all the signs and symptoms of a person struggling with major depression. ‘If God exists,’ say those who are depressed, ‘where is He? Why doesn’t He reveal Himself?’” We who have left our faith get this a lot. We’re told that we’re just mad at God for not coming through for us or we’re depressed and blame God for our lot in life. But that’s not even what bothers me. Mr. Mackintosh, whose byline says he is a “spiritual counselor at the Nedley Depression Program and director of NEWSTART Global at Weimar College (where I graduated with my BA in Pastoral Ministry, interestingly enough), has never met me. We’ve never spoken by phone or corresponded in any fashion. So this is rather remarkable. Without ever meeting or speaking with me he diagnoses me with “major depression” simply on the basis that I questioned the existence of God. Major depression, in case you’re not familiar, is a clinical diagnosis. According to WebMD, symptoms include, Fatigue or loss of energy almost every day Feelings of worthlessness or guilt almost every day Impaired concentration, indecisiveness Insomnia or hypersomnia (excessive sleeping) almost every day Markedly diminished interest or pleasure in almost all activities nearly every day (called anhedonia, this symptom can be indicated by reports from significant others) Restlessness or feeling slowed down Recurring thoughts of death or suicide Significant weight loss or gain (a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month) The first and most important thing to say about Mr. Mackintosh’s diagnosis is that this is a serious mental health challenged faced by millions of people. Major depression affects about 6.7% of the U.S. population over age 18, according to the National Institute of Mental Health. Overall, between 20% and 25% of adults may suffer an episode of major depression at some point during their lifetime. [ WebMD ] Frivolous diagnoses like this make light of the seriousness of this disease which claims the lives of tens of thousands of people every year. Secondly, I’ve looked high and low for any indication that “questioning the existence of God” is indicative of major (or even mild) depression and I have not found it. If you know more about this, please point me to this information in the comments below. Finally, Mr. Mackintosh, and others like him who have pretend qualifications and claim to treat serious medical conditions, are endangering the public and should be stopped. I’m personally nonplussed by his illogical and passive aggressive attack on me, even though it’s ironic that a person posing as a mental health professional would publicly expose another person allegedly suffering from depression. But whatever. My concern is much greater. Who else is he “diagnosing?” The Nedley Depression Program may indeed be remarkable, but if Mr. Mackintosh’s article is any indication of how he thinks or how he treats other “patients,” he is a danger to those under his care and should be stopped before he seriously hurts someone. What is the danger is here, is the lack of thinking allowed by the SDA church! And the lack of qualified councelors when issues like this come up. Count me out, and please remove my account from this forum, as I this is more evidence that the church has not changed. It is nothing but the cult I thought it was and will continue to think it is. There is no God in this none at all, just more accusations for those of us who have a brain and use it! Give me the theories of Buhhdism any day over those of the SDA/Christian churches. They at least show kindness!

Indicting Christ With the Atrocities of Islam John Nantz | Feb 22, 2015 Liberals are very fond of trying to conflate the teachings of the Bible with those of the Quran. It is an attempt to destroy the foundations of our liberty by indicting Christianity with the atrocities of Islam. For liberals, violence is only religious if it impunes Christians. The Bible is a threat to liberal, leftist dogma because it is truth that diametrically opposes the humanist statism that is the utopia of the American left. Atrocities committed by Islamists are met with only nervous smiles or with blathering inanities about jobs for ISIS because Islam is not an American institution to be dismantled. Liberals rush to smear all of Christendom with the ancient history of the Inquisition because Christian doctrine opposes their deification of the state. And, dredging up the corpse of the Crusades is intellectual so long as it bashes the faith of countless Christians. The Church of Rome’s Crusades are historical fact, so is the Catholic Inquisition. History attests to acts of violence perpetrated in the name of Christendom. History has also been witness to acts of brutality and conquest perpetrated with great consistency in the name of Islam. However, Islam and the Quran embrace violence as a matter of political and religious orthodoxy; whereas, violence perpetrated in the name of Christ and His church is always a matter of heretical deviance. Moreover, Muslim violence is an organic component of the doctrines of the Quran and of the chronicled history of Muhammad contained in the cannon of the hadith, which also forms the basis of shariah law. Furthermore, Islamic notions of theocracy, a fusion of church and state, come directly from Koranic teachings. Conversely, notions of ecclesiastical independence form the state and its propensity to meddle derive from Biblical doctrines. Whereas, the Quran is tyrannical and brutal, the Bible is the fount of liberty and is permeated with notions of grace and compassion. Much of modern confusion and liberal political propaganda concerning the Bible stems from a profound ignorance of the structure of the Bible and the concept of covenant. In fact, the idea of covenant is so monumental to Christian doctrine that the Bible is separated into two different testaments, the Old “Covenant,” and the New “Covenant.” The Bible actually contains far more than the two covenants but the two major divisions represents God’s over arching covenant with man under the Law and then a “New Covenant,” which is not really new at all. The Bible clearly teaches that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). The New Covenant is not new in the sense of fundamentally different, but in the sense of coming to fruition or completion. Since the fall of man in Adam, the only acceptable propitiation for sin is the shedding of substitutionary blood. God instituted the system of animal sacrifice to cover the offense of sin until, in the fulness of time, God’s perfect sacrifice was made—Christ. Old Covenant believers looked forward to Christ’s sacrifice in faith, whereas, we look back in faith to Christ’s redeeming sacrifice and resurrection. The same crimson theme that begins at the fall of mankind in the garden continues to this day. Every covenant, every page of the Bible, points to Christ. Genesis records the fall of man and of God’s planting the seed of reconciliation, while the rest of the Old Testament chronicles the developing flower of God’s salvation blooming like a lily in the New Testament record of Christ’s sinless life, sacrificial death, and redeeming resurrection. The original covenant was made between God and Adam. So long as Adam abstained from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, God’s relationship with Adam would remain unbroken. In this, Adam sinned. The Bible records that God created covenants with individuals such as Noah and Abraham, and with a particular nation—Israel. This is the particular point where the liberal begins to twist the truth of covenant. God formed a unique relationship with the progeny of Abraham and, in time, with the nation of Israel. God provided them with instructions unique to their heritage, to their time, and to their peculiar character as God’s chosen people. The Bible also says that these things were given to succeeding generations of believers as examples “written for our admonition.” I Corinthians 10:11 But, the specific provisions of covenants with Israel were for them and for their time. Politically and culturally, this is the critical difference between the Quran and the Bible. There are notions of covenant in the Quran but they are utterly without nuance, monolithic, and locked in time. The Quranic concept of covenant is stunted and forever bound to the primitive culture and time in which it was devised. The Israelites were instructed to utterly destroy their enemies who occupied the promised land, to kill men, women, and children; to utterly destroy cultures, even down to their livestock. However, the Bible is crystal clear for any serious reader, these commands were delivered exclusively to the descendants of Abraham and for a specific purpose, with a limited objective, and because of a distinct relationship with God, His justice, and His plan of redemption. The Quran knows no such limitations but authorizes barbarities in perpetuity, with a universal objective, and as a primary means of propagating Muhammad’s view of a global, theocratic Islamic kingdom. The sword becomes just another means to an end in the hands of the capricious and power mad. When interpreted through the prism of the hadith, and even within the context of the Quran itself, passages such as “And wage war on all of the idolaters as they are waging war on all of you. And know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).” Juz 10:36, and “Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds…” Juz 26:4 A propensity to violence is not Quranic heresy but sanctioned orthodoxy. Christ has something very different to say about the nature of His kingdom in this New Covenant age: “Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” John 18:36 Christ’s kingdom is not political, but spiritual, and the advancement of Christ’s kingdom is to be accomplished by “the foolishness of preaching.” I Corinthians 1:21. The Crusades and the inquisition were aberrations, departures from the clear teaching of Christ and were and are universally condemned by the Church. We live during the flowering of God’s redemptive plan, under the New Covenant’s outpouring of grace. Liberalism’s attempt to besmirch the doctrines of Christ with the creation of Mohammad is nothing short of grotesque blasphemy. It is the deepest calumny to fabricate a moral equivalency between two diametrically opposed theologies; the success of which depends exclusively on the ignorance and gullibility of an uneducated populace. Christ himself pronounces the most solemn curse on those who would pervert His truth, “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:18,19 Liberals would do well to consider where their hubris leads them.

Acclaimed Jazz Trumpeter And Composer, Dies At 94 http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/02/22/388240099/clark-terry-acclaimed-jazz-trumpeter-and-composer-dies-at-94?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=news

Every good gift comes from God The apostle Paul reminds us “in all things to give thanks.” Here’s a list of things we can take for granted and forget to appreciate. Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Galleries/7-Things-We-Forget-To-Thank-God-For.aspx#VAMH6w62dvtVe2Ej.99

The Trinitarian baptismal formula: Matthew 28:19 Background: In 303 AD, the Emperor Diocletian ordered all sacred Scriptures of the Christians to be burned. Certainly many original manuscripts and copies of those originals were destroyed. Shortly afterward the Emperor Constantine halted persecution of Christians and issued the Edict of Milan (313) which declared freedom of worship for citizens of the Roman Empire. Eusebius, who lived from 270 to 360 (aprox) was historian and Bishop of Caesarea. The Christian “church” grew so rapidly that the Emperor requested Eusebius supervise the copying of fifty new copies of the Scripture for the churches of Constantinople. We must remember that these new copies were commissioned by Emperor Constantine, who may have influenced the process. Eusebius lived, till about 40 years of age in great intimacy with the martyr Pamphilus, a learned and devout man of Caesarea, and founder of an extensive library there, from which Eusebius derived his vast store of learning. (Dr. Wescott, in “General Survey,” page 108) Eusebius was a master of the Greek. In his advanced age, Eusebius quoted the Trinitarian baptismal formula twice, but by this time he had lived under the domination of the Emperor Constantine for many years. Prior to this, he quotes Matthew 28:19 using the singular (“in My name”) some 18 times. 1. From “The Demonstratio Evangelica” by Eusebius, who quotes Matthew 28:19: “With one word and voice He said to His disciples, ‘Go, and make disciples of all nations in My name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.’” “For he did not enjoin them ‘to make disciples of all the nations’ simply and without qualification, but with the essential addition ‘in his name’. For so great was the virtue attaching to his appellation that the Apostle says, ‘YHWH bestowed on him the name above every name, that in the name of Yehushua every knee shall bow of things in heaven and on earth and under the earth.’ It was right therefore that he should emphasize the virtue of the power residing in his name but hidden from the many, and therefore say to his Apostles, ‘Go ye, and make disciples of all the nations in my name’” (col. 240, p. 136). 2. From “The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol II, page 263: “The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic church in the second century.” The second century (100 to 200) came before Constantine legalized Christianity in 313, and set up the “catholic” church within the Roman Empire with himself as head. It is difficult to know for certain just what “the church” did during those years of persecution. We have only limited writings of the early church “fathers”, and no surviving copies of the NT Scriptures from the first century. 3. Here is a link to a very interesting article on facebook. https://www.facebook.com/notes/church-of-the-living-el-%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%94-jerusalem/the-matthew-2819-forgery/607126512641911

President Obama called on people of faith to reject those who use religion to justify evil – and in doing so – reminded people about the terrible things done in the name of Jesus Christ. Obama told a gathering Thursday at the National Prayer Breakfast that we have seen “professions of faith used both as an instrument of great good but twisted in the name of evil.” “From a school in Pakistan to the streets of Paris we have seen violence and terror perpetrated by those who profess to stand up for faith – their faith – profess to stand up for Islam but in fact are betraying it,” he said.The Crusades ended some 700 years ago. He did not mention radical Islam or jihadists or Islamic extremists. He did, however, call ISIS a “brutal, vicious death cult that in the name of religion carries out unspeakable acts of barbarism.” The president also issued a word of warning to Christians. “And lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place – remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ,” the president said. He also chided the United States, “our home country.” “Slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ,” he added. Robert Jeffress, the pastor of First Baptist Church of Dallas and the author of the upcoming book, “Countdown to the Apocalypse: Why ISIS and Ebola Are Only the Beginning,” said there are two problems with Obama’s comparison. “When Christians act violently they are acting in opposition to the teachings of their founder, Jesus Christ,” Jeffress told me. “They cannot cite a single verse in the New Testament that calls for violence against unbelievers. On the other hand, radical Islamists can point to a number of verses in the Koran calling for Muslims to ‘crucify the infidels.’” On Wednesday a United Nations watchdog group reported that Islamic militants were crucifying Iraqi children and burying them alive. Others had been sold as sex slaves and boys as young as 18 had been used as suicide bombers, Reuters reported. “They are following the example of their founder Muhammad who slaughtered and beheaded those who opposed him,” Jeffress said. While the Crusades were terrible, Jeffress pointed out they were a response to hundreds of years of Muslim aggression – an issue he writes about in his book. As you might imagine – the president’s remarks did not go over well among conservatives. My friend Michelle Malkin put it nicely: "ISIS chops off heads, incinerates hostages, kills gays, enslaves girls. Obama: Blame the Crusades," she tweeted. I was puzzled by something else President Obama said: "We are summoned to push back against those who would distort our religion for their nihilistic ends." What did he mean by “our religion”? Whose religion? And why did he compare the Crusades to ISIS? The Crusades ended some 700 years ago. Perhaps the president should be a bit more concerned with the Islamic jihad being waged in this century. Todd Starnes is host of Fox News & Commentary, heard on hundreds of radio stations.

Ben is in a hospital ward with two non-Jewish patients. On his first morning, Ben puts on his tefillin, like he does every morning. But the non-Jews can't figure out what he is doing. Finally, one says to the other, "Look how smart those Jews are! He's taking his own blood pressure.

February 23, 2015 World Without End “For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.” (Isaiah 64:4) This beautiful Old Testament promise has been appropriated by Paul (1 Corinthians 2:9) and applied to the New Testament believer guided by the indwelling Spirit of God. It looks forward to the ages to come when all those “things which God hath prepared for them that love him” will be given in their fullness. It is noteworthy that both “the beginning of the world” in our text (Isaiah 64:4) and “world without end” (45:17) are translations of the same Hebrew word, olam, which means essentially “indefinitely long ago” or even “eternity.” Thus, the wonderful plan God has prepared for His people, to be implemented and enjoyed in eternity future, was formulated by Him in eternity past. We were then chosen “in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love” (Ephesians 1:4). He had even planned our redemption from sin through His Son, “with the precious blood of Christ, . . . Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you” (1 Peter 1:19-20). We may not, in this life, really comprehend with our minds such marvelous things, but we who “wait for him” can believe them with rejoicing in our hearts, for “God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God” (1 Corinthians 2:10). Thus we can unite with thankful and understanding hearts in Paul’s great doxology: “Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen” (Ephesians 3:21). HMM

This is a very good topic thread because details are helping us readers get a clearer view. I'm sure there is much more to say. The more I read, and the more I see the flak flying from the big guns of the orthodox defenders doing their best to defame The One Project, the more I get convicted to support the project.

I know the above was to Ron, but.... No, I don't believe Gentiles need to be circumcised because circumcision as a covenant was between God and Abraham's descents. Also keep in mind what Paul states in Phil 3:2-3 "beware of the false circumcision" The false circumcision gloried not in Christ, but in themselves: Gal 6:13 "They desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh." They are giving glory to men, not Christ. On the other hand, "The true circumcision...glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh...." Phil 3:3

An additional source suggests evidence of Muslim explorers arriving in the New World centuries earlier. http://www.islam101.com/history/muslim_us_hist.html That puts the first Muslims in North America as early as 1178 according to Chinese documents. They were not slaves. An additional source suggested even earlier exploration by Muslim explorers perhaps as early as the 9th Century. It is also suggested that many of the later Western explorers of the Americas relied on maps made by the Muslim map makers and explorers. Here is an interesting take on the topic of Islamic influences on America - http://lostislamichistory.com/how-muslims-helped-cause-the-american-revolution/

This isn't exactly helpful to your friend, but it's a great read and fairly on topic. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/08/02/letting-go-2

This is so true

Chuckle, chuckle.....the world in which I live is full of 'race', where I live, where I work, where I shop, etc etc. Most people use your statement to avoid the elephant in the room. It isn't just criticism of the president, it is the type, the insinuations,etc that make it different.

Four young people from the Caribbean and South America will face off in a Bible contest in hope of winning a trip to the General Conference session in San Antonio, Texas, in July. View the full article

I am just curious. You stated this is a companion to the Historical Context For 538AD. Have you posted that topic yet?

My vague recollection is that we used a modified version when I graduated from LLUMC in 1970.

"mystical breathing practises and lectio divina." ​IMO, there are extremes in every movement. I have been a practitioner of what some would call contemplative prayer for several years; where I quiet my mind and body; and envision Jesus and I just hanging out. Sometimes it's in old Israel; and sometimes its around town where I live. Sometimes we just hang out for a while; but often we have quite animated conversations. Usually it s an "instant download" that takes me a while to unwind. The point I am making is that the focus of the true contemplative prayer or meditation meditation is Jesus; not "nothing" or the "divine ether" that pervades the universe. Almost everyone I know that practices Christian contemplative prayer (mostly non SDAs) does it this way. Those who want to practice mystical transcendental meditation can go be Moonies or something; but Christian mediation involves focus on God or His Word; and then verifying any "downloads" you may receive in God's Word. Do a word study on the words "meditate" and "meditation" in the Bible. You will find meditation practiced by God's holy ones throughout scripture. They provide the example of how to enter into contemplative prayer.

Death did not occur on earth prior to Adam and Eve sinning. The ecological balance and food chain originally designed by God here was also in harmony with His character - everything in balance and designed to serve and benefit every species around, not to destroy or drive to extinction. Genesis 1:29, 30 give the original diet not just for man, but for all living things on earth. Death had no place here until Adam sinned, and the dominion of this planet devolve to another ruler - the one we name Satan. The hallmarks of Satan's character and dominion are the selfish "might makes right, the end justifies the means" type character, resulting in domination, predation, and ultimately, death - all diametrically opposite that of God and His character. These hallmarks can be traced everywhere Satan exerts his dominion, and will ultimately be characteristic of the Mark of the Beast in the very last trials. It was Satan who corrupted the animal kingdom into the predator/prey paradigm. God did not design it this way. Christ, in dying to redeem mankind, also redeems everything mankind once held dominion over. Such dominion comes as Christ's legal right as our New Adam. That is why in the end, we will return to the peaceful kingdom portrayed in prophecy in Isiah 65:25. Blessings,

Back in Genesis 1, when God created man, they were to have dominion over all other life forms on this planet (verse 28). Everything there before sin served all others beneficially under God's Laws. When man sinned, they gave both themselves AND all they had dominion over, to Satan. Satan controls and dispenses of it as he wishes. (Luke 4:6) Hence, the strong rule the weak, the swift are victorious over the slow, and the cunning win by greater deceit against the trusting and careless...just like it is among people. Paul writes of this in Romans, when he links the redemption of man to the redemption of creation. It groans currently, awaiting its new birth. Romans 8:22 Simply put, survival of the fittest is nothing less than might makes right - the hall mark of Satan's kingdom. It affects all of nature, because it affects all of man. Along with man's redemption will also come the redemption of all he once had dominion over. Christ will return the eco system back to the way it was created, because He has won the right to be the new Adam...not through might making right, but by sacrificial love laying life down for all others. Blessings,

I was there. I saw Gregory Matthews. :-) I was a table facilitator, with a good bunch of folks. Jesus was preached. People conversed. It had the feel of a high tech camp-meeting, and I bumped into lots of folks I knew, some I hadn't seen in 30+ years. Gregory, I confess I am a little confused. The statements you make about Chris Oberg (Pastor of the La Sierra University Church) seem to be talking about John Ortberg (Pastor of the Menlo Park Presbyterian Church, and author of a book called, "Faith and Doubt"). I say it had the feel of camp-meeting, and I mean this two ways. It was a family reunion, and it was an "in-house" meeting. The presenters were primarily from Adventist institutions located in Adventist enclaves (Loma Linda, Silver Spring, La Sierra, Berrien Springs, Walla Walla, Angwin, etc.). An exception was Michaela Lawrence Jeffery, campus minister at University of Tennessee, Knoxville. But as such, the issues discussed seemed to be addressed to those carrying Adventist institutional baggage. I think (as I said to you) this would be improved by including speakers who are not rooted in Adventist institutions, who are ministering in the wider world, who are conversant with the questions and issues that face the tens of millions of people who have never heard of Seventh-day Adventists. There needs to be more to the Adventist mission in the world than the presented options of ADRA and sheltering the homeless. That said, the focus of most of the speakers was on unpacking the Sermon on the Mount. They wrestled with the words of Jesus. Too often I think Protestants slide past Jesus' words, in order to theologize about him, placing, I think, more emphasis on Pauline and Johannine theological formulations than on the simple teachings of Jesus. All the speakers were excellent. But I think the speakers who gave witness to their own struggles in life were the most powerful. I heard a number of people say they felt Michaela to be the best speaker for this reason. Some folks on another website tried to pit TOP against GYC. I don't think that's necessary. Dwight Nelson has spoken at both. A lot of folks attend both kinds of events. I've been to one of each. TOP seems to be focused on a somewhat disillusioned Adventist institutional crowd that needs to hear Jesus preached simply, while GYC started as a primarily an offshoot of the Michigan Conference's public campus ministry. These are young people who are not burned out on Adventism, who live in a world that doesn't center on Adventism, and they are eager for good Adventist preaching and solid teaching with an apologetic emphasis. I'd rather see both events happen on a smaller scale, on a regional basis, with more cross-fertilization of speakers. That's my two cents. :-)

I now have the answer: A tape of the TOP Gathering will be placed online in 6 - 8 weeks. The rest is my response which is simply my thinking: TOP San Diego was professionally taped with both stationary and mobile professional video cameras. That was needed both for the production of a later tape as well as for projection on the multiple large screens that were needed for audience viewing and for inclusion of the groups in the final tape. With multiple cameras involved, time is needed to splice together the multiple feeds into one coherent tape. The above is just me and my thinking. The bottom line, the video taping was Hollywood level quality. The video equipment and cameral personal were professional. Now for those who would ask why SDAs were not used: Why do you assume that SDAs were not used?

Are there only 12 members who have an opinion?