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http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/church/its-time-address-spiritual-abuse-church God is so good in that He is multiplying exponentially articles on this topic. When I first looked for it online about I found one or two. A couple of years later and there was more. Now God is warning everyone. If we will hear and heed. If we choose to hear and heed. Our choice as to whether we will look deep into our souls, or not. This refers to one of the first articles I came across: http://www.nacr.org/wordpress/4114/spiritual-abuse-an-interview-with-jeff-vanvonderen

The quote actually said "marked changes", not "fluctuated wildly", which, to my mind, are quite different things. Here's a quote I like: From Job, we can see what Satan is capable of in regards to weather, even without the flood. It makes sense to me that the weather would have changed after the fall, for the same reason poisonous herbs would spring up, although I think the weather impact was mild compared to what happened after the flood.

Femster, last Friday my wife and I picked up a couple obviously in need on the street and homeless. They, a man and a woman it was deduced were our divine appointment as I had a couple of bucks left over after some grocery shopping. However after stopping and spending some time talking to them, it could be seen there was no way that amount of cash was going to meet their need so after determining they needed transportation to a place some 130 miles away, to make connections with more help, we asked if we could help them get to their spot. After the load up and knowing we had enough gas and money to make it there and back. we spent most of the down trip, talking and sharing with each other about how Jesus was an ever present help. Jim let me know that he had just had prayer before we showed up, asking God to help them get through the night. He had concluded we were that heaven sent angel. What a joy to know we can work in concert with the heavenly host. The next day Jim called to ask if we had made iit home safely since he knew we had no map, telling us when he talked to us he would be contacting the body of believers we had mentioned that he might find further support. I was able to relate a circumstance that occurred on our way home where I lost almost total control, going downhill on a wash boardy incline and crying out in fearful desperation to our Lord, just the words, "Lord, no!' about 3 or 4 times, and the car just immediately straitened out and after only a stop by a policeman (not even a threat of a ticket) we made it home safely. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.....2 Timothy 3 We have this promise. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.....1 John 4 Where ever we are willing to be used, Jesus will use us, for His honor and glory. God is Love!~Jesus saves!

"... Wherever a soul reaches out after God, there the Spirit's working is manifest, and God will reveal Himself to that soul. For such worshipers He is seeking. He waits to receive them, and to make them His sons and daughters." Desire of Ages 189 the 12 step support.fellowship/assembling system moves the healing of yourself Step 1 - Honesty Step 2 - Hope Step 3 - Faith Step 4 - Courage Step 5 - Integrity Step 6 - Willingness Step 7 - Humility Step 8 - Love Step 9 - Justice Step 10 - Perseverance Step 11 - Spirituality Step 12 - Service ................................................................................... and this kind of Consistent Prayer Life releases Joy that the MEME speaks of! When you go into your prayer closet and thru out the day..among all the tears and disappointments of yourself/others and lifting up and blessing others before HIM and Worship of HIM ..In Thanksgiving and Praise.... imagine GOD Himself delighting in you as you are and where you stand. Understanding Wherever you go HE is there with you Whatever you are doing whatever you are thinking (good.bad.indifferent) .. HE Is In your face with NonCondemnation. God's thoughts of you are so precious as many as the sands of the sea(Psalms 139). There is no where you can go without HIM..HE by your side Even in your complete darkness He is there! No matter how far you run (into self pity or addiction or self loathing or loathing of others) He is not going to leave you.. HIS right Hand holds you!!! He sings and dances over you regardless of who u r or what you have done..Cause that is How HE IS..That's what LOVE Does! To get this ..gets everything the Spirit has promised you. It is your jumping off point every morning and thru the Day! It is what draws others to you .. and to HIM and that Brings even more JOY. More of this draws you to HIM in abounding Joy. And being around others who are so JESUS Center also spurs you on even more so in your Healing and Growth..One of the great Reasons to FELLOWSHIP! It is irresistible! If I (JESUS) be lifted up .. I will draw all!

https://youtu.be/-GD-5mRyaJw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GD-5mRyaJw (can't get the video to appear in my post)

Joe, You believe that Satan was free to control everything outside of "the garden" even before Adam sinned? I have a hard time believing that Christ actually created a chaotic earth, with tares and carnivores, and poisonous snakes. I agree that the LORD accepts responsibility for those things which He has allowed Satan to do. I'm just not convinced that Satan was turned loose on the earth, until Adam actually sinned against his Creator.

We're getting more and more noticed! I believe that even more than the eating habits, its the healthy belief in God, praying, and stopping for that one day a week that was made for us, the Sabbath.

Hey Gay, Great thoughts here! I agree that the list you provided is a pretty good indication of spiritual awakening. If 13 wasn't an unlucky number, I would add "An insatiable love for Jesus and a desire to be with Him always. I especially like the thought that wherever I go - good, bad, or indefferent - He is always there. Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” (Heb. 13:5; Deut.31:16)

I disagree. It is acceptace of the mercy and love of God that saves us through the blood and death of Jesus Christ. The Gospel is just the news about that event. It is our faith in that news and the person that news is about that saves us. I can read every word of the Gospel - even memorize it - and it won't save me. Only upon acting on the news and developing a relationship with Jesus saves me.

The old ladies in the OP may be using acupuncture to create a little pain in order to forget another bigger one. That might be something Femster could try when her lower back is really bothering her.

sometimes it's nice just to have a lighthearted thread...

You know...we could look at the pic you posted as a metaphor......sometimes people need a pain in the tush to be useful....inflicted by others!!!

.....unless we become like little children... you know the rest.. Am good with that.

She said that God has not revealed His purpose in regards to the children of unbelievers. She claims to have said this under inspiration. Regardless of what level she is (whatever this means), her statements regarding whether she is speaking under inspiration, and regarding the purpose of God in regards to the children of unbelievers, are either true or they aren't. So to disagree with what she said, you must be asserting that what she said is false, either in regards to her inspiration, or in regards to God's purpose regarding these children. Again:

Q. What did the mayonnaise say to the refrigerator? A. "Close the door, I'm dressing."

What I'm hearing you say is to set aside the words of Jesus Christ, and stay with Paul. Paul conceived of his work as being a continuation of Jesus' works, and that he (Paul) was doing nothing other than re-articulate in his own words the teachings of Jesus Christ. It cannot be right to make a wedge between Jesus Christ and Paul.

It might be better to just thank interested responders for their input and stay friends rather than to demonize them. A little skepticism of self-supporting health ministries and a better understanding of Myrtle's medical crisis will never hurt anyone. That the Times of Refreshing Life Style Center would demand $4000 cash up front or else no treatments to save Myrtle's life wakes up my skepticism. The Center would just let her die if she doesn't have the money. How caring. Of course, if Christ were present, he would touch and heal her at no cost if she believed that he could heal her. The Center doesn't have a cure for metastatic ovarian cancer. They just want the money. The con of false hope helps with that. Myrtle has apparently lived a life of doing good for others, which is what the Kingdom of YHVH is all about. I hope that I can say the same before it's my time to die.

This whole "nature of Christ" thing could be settled if we asked ourselves who died with Christ on His cross? 1] Our humanity before the fall or 2] Our humanity after the fall indwelt with our "bent-to-self" (i.e., our fallen nature)? Let's look at Romans 6:6 NASB "our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with...." Here's how I read it: Our old life from Adam was crucified with Christ so that our body, indwelt with our fallen nature, might be done away with. There's only one kind of humanity and that's fallen humanity indwelt with our fallen nature. That life, our shared life with Adam, was crucified with Christ and hence "you died to the law" in the humanity of Christ (see Rom 7:4). You see our fallen life had to die. The law of God says, "the soul that sins it must die". Christ's death instead of yours doesn't answer the justice of God's law. Your life that you obtained from Adam, after the fall, had to die and it did "in Christ Jesus". That's the gospel. That's the only legal way that you and I could be delivered from under law to under grace.

I know these people https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=8948984

I think for the sake of discussion ..people will automatically chime in with a plethora of Scriptures reflecting their walk with GOD.. I myself provided a huge one reflecting Rejoicing in the Lord in Prayer to start us off (Psalms 139) and all the 12 steps in AA are based on Scriptures also! 1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol ... that our lives had become unmanageable. "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out." (Romans 7:18) 2.Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. "... my grace is sufficient for you, for my POWER is made perfect in weakness." (2 Corinthians 12:9) ..for it God Who works in you to will and act according to His good purpose.. (Phil. 2:13) 3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of GOD as we understood Him."... If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me." (Luke 9:23**) 4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. "Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the Lord." (Lamentations 3:40) 5.Admitted to GOD, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed." (James 5:16) 6.Were entirely ready to have GOD remove all these defects of character. "If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land." (Isaiah 1:19) 7.Humbly asked Him to remove all our shortcomings."Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will lift you up." (James 4:10) 8.Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. "Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift." (Matthew 5:23, 24**) 9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. Give and it shall be given you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." (Luke 6:38**) 10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it. "For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith GOD has given you." (Romans 12:3) 11.Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with GOD as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will, and the power to carry that out. "May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer." (Psalm 19:14) "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly..." (Col. 3:16) 12.Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and practice these principles in all our affairs. "Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ." (Galatians 6:1-2) **The words of Christ - See more at: http://alcoholicsvictorious.org/12-steps#sthash.6tnHj4Ls.dpuf and hi Jessie-Jess Happy New Year! Thank you for asking! there is so much out there to explore! Jessie-Jess have you found the MEME to be true in your healing and growth? I won't steal the Joy of someone here to share any one of the 12 they have found to be true and the scriptures behind it that can hit people right in the forehead as it has with me. May the Joy of the Lord be your Strength! # the Book "SERVANT GOD"

Well even the pioneers did have to fight fanaticism as well as people trying to monopolize time and discussions.

Likewise, AS - Congrats to your family! What a great Christmas (or "Winter Holiday") present! Grandkids are alot more fun than kids - you can spoil them rotten, hype them up on sugar, and then give them back to their parents when you are tired.