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Matthew 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. From the beginning, this is were we are to look at this question from. It is like a believer in evolution saying, "Look how it is, this proves the past," but we know, because of Scripture, that from the beginning it was not so. To look at it another way, just because I agree to let you steal from me if you agree to let me steal from you, it does not absolve the crime/sin of theft, we would still be guilty. Even if we declare to do it with the most loving feelings for each other it will still be sin, because, this was not how it was to be from the beginning. It all revolves around from the beginning, how God first wanted it and how it will be when we get there. If we are not striving by HIS strength to be like it was from the beginning now, we will not be like it then. From "the Sanctified Life" "Peter's admonition to abstain from fleshly lusts is a most direct and forcible warning against the use of all such stimulants and narcotics as tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol, and morphine. These indulgences may well be classed among the lusts that exert a pernicious influence upon moral character. The earlier these hurtful habits are formed, the more firmly will they hold their victim in slavery to lust, and the more certainly will they lower the standard of spirituality. {SL 28.1} "Bible teaching will make but a feeble impression upon those whose faculties are benumbed by self-gratification. Thousands will sacrifice not only health and life but their hope of heaven before they will wage war against their own perverted appetites. One lady who for many years claimed to be sanctified, made the statement that if she must give up her pipe or heaven she would say, "Farewell, heaven; I cannot overcome my love for my pipe." This idol had been enshrined in the soul, leaving to Jesus a subordinate place. Yet this woman claimed to be wholly the Lord's! " {SL 28.2) I, and many others know about these things very intimately. Beware the lusts that war against your soul.

Believing in Christ or SDA, should have nothing to do with accepting an Easter Bunny! When my daughter was growing up, we did do the EB thing, but I always told her it had nothing to do with Christ, his death and resurrection. Now I tell my grand children the same thing.

Yet Jesus did it; He suffered humiliation as they removed His clothes. His tormentors spat on him, they covered His face and then hit him on the head. They slapped His face. They spoke demeaning insults. He who had such a tender heart for he abused said nothing in His defence. I suppose that the thought that this was His purpose was a comfort, but no comfort was to come from His friends or followers. Boggling.

Just learned something interesting; The manuscript that the KJV came from were made by Sunday-keepers, while the texts that the KJV only people criticize was made by Christians who were still keeping the Sabbath.

In my home we were always raised not to believe that Santa or the Easter Bunny were actual beings, but as symbols for the season. Santa was the easiest for us because being Norwegian we also have Jul Nissen. They were seen as symbols of the giving spirit the joy of the season etc. Because of this I have never had the disappointment of "No Santa" and Santa has always retained that special magic. I see like the polar express and feel sad for that right of passage for so many children. There is an honest way of sharing these. Granted the Easter Bunny was more down played at home. And I always had a problem with the Easter egg hunts because the coaching "you're getting warmer/colder" I took too concretely, I always wanted to be just comfortably warm, not too hot nor too cold....

Perspective, not conclusion. And, tentatively at least, 'human understandings', not 'God'. No-one needs defending form the true God, and God needs no defense from humans. Humans sometimes get it wrong, though, as when they burned 'witches', and I like to hope I'd have defended the minority then too, against human understandings.

I don't handle ridicule, being laughed at, or being blamed for something I didn't do very well. Years ago, I was driving on a side road by the freeway to my office when two what looked like teenagers started driving on my side of the road from the opposite direction and then swerved at the last second. I saw they were laughing at me. I was so furious that I turned around and started chasing them. Fortunately, they disappeared in a nearby neighborhood. No telling what I would have done had I caught up with them!

Here is how English has changed over the past 1000 years. Which english would do you like to read?

The problem with the Jews about Daniel, is if they accepted the Book, than they have a problem!! And on top of that, than they'd have to rethink there problem with the New Testament and Jesus!!

I used to be very "meek and mild" when abuse came my way....and I suffered horribly because of that. I don't tolerate it anymore. But I have to be careful, especially in what I say, as it's not nice to engage in verbal combat with unarmed opponents...

This is actually better in its own thread...

Kevin: " Dave, don't you think it easier to define marriage? Then we know that all else is fornication and sin." David: "Sure. But if that definition already assumes that a loving, monogamous same-sex marriage is excluded, we're back in 'circular reasoning land." A component of marriage involves sexual intimacy. The Bible does not view "monogamous same-sex marriage" intimacy as legitimate love, but rather a perversion. Romans 1:26-27: "....God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved." (NLT)

We, as Kevin described in his home, were not raised to believe in Santa or the Easter Bunny. They were only symbols. My children were not raised to believe in them. It was not an issue, except when one of my daughters shared with her entire kindergarten class that they were not real. Parents were not happy about her revelation to their children.

Christ is not God, but according to scripture: God's son. By virtue of inheritance he is therefore Divine, but not the supreme Father as there is "one God" not two or three. Though he is indeed the father of the faithful. There is "one Lord" and that is Jesus Christ. All according to scripture. The spirit of Christ is the spirit of the Father, "one spirit" as the word's and gifts of the spirit are all according to Christ the Fathers. He himself stated that it was so, he also said the spirit would not speak of himself but only the things that Christ had already said, he then says I say this because all things I have received from the Father. The Father is the source, Christ is the channel (vessel) that the spirit of the Father comes through. He asks that we also become vessels of righteousness to a lost and dying world. Through Christ, God the chief architect made all things. Satan brings forth a spirit also and it is iniquitous, Satan alone professes to be worthy of worship, Christ saw it as nothing to be coveted, but service to others only. Good and evil wrestle for dominance, one through reasoning with us (service displayed) the other through the force of disception (power of force). Today many speak of God the Son, and deceive many, Christ never aspired to replace his Father but for a time has been given power above all to redeem his bride. Read 1 Cor, 15th chapter, it is clear all power was given him, except as is obvious over him who gave it. Though Christs action and son-ship make him worthy of worship he has never aspired to it, but comes to us as a servant of all. This alone will reveal the person of any and all that is Anti-Christ. One last time he will come in great power and glory, his own will know him and all others will fear him. He will then take his own into the presence of the Father and he will have claimed his bride thus completing his vow to love her forever in sickness and in health never again to be separated. She the bride will then go forth unto all in her shining glory to make known to all his unfaltering faithfulness which is his glory. As an administrator of the Corporations will I daily command change and action, but at no time can I righteously claim the relsults for I am not the architect of the plans but merely a tool that sees to there advancement. Come quickly Lord Jesus and shine in our hearts that we may see the Father in all his glory. Enabled to see by him alone.

MCBGM, Though the vision in Daniel 7 begins with sea-beasts, Heaven's interpretation that is for the endtime focuses on earth-kings (Daniel 7:17). The meaning of the earth-kings was sealed (Daniel 12:4, 9) until the time of the end. Christian regards

Rev 20:10 "And the devil [that old serpent, Satan, the dragon] that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Maybe at one time, though I don't ever remember it, I might have believed in the nonexistence of God, but the evidence presented by the Holy Bible coupled with following its' instructions has settled any doubts there ever may have been. 13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.…1 John 5 1The heavens proclaim the glory of God. The skies display his craftsmanship. 2Day after day they continue to speak; night after night they make him known. 3They speak without a sound or word; their voice is never heard.a 4Yet their message has gone throughout the earth, and their words to all the world. God has made a home in the heavens for the sun. 5It bursts forth like a radiant bridegroom after his wedding. It rejoices like a great athlete eager to run the race. 6The sun rises at one end of the heavens and follows its course to the other end. Nothing can hide from its heat. 7The instructions of the Lord are perfect, reviving the soul. The decrees of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise the simple. 8The commandments of the Lord are right, bringing joy to the heart. The commands of the Lord are clear, giving insight for living. 9Reverence for the Lord is pure, lasting forever. The laws of the Lord are true; each one is fair. 10They are more desirable than gold, even the finest gold. They are sweeter than honey, even honey dripping from the comb. 11They are a warning to your servant, a great reward for those who obey them. 12How can I know all the sins lurking in my heart? Cleanse me from these hidden faults. 13Keep your servant from deliberate sins! Don’t let them control me. Then I will be free of guilt and innocent of great sin. 14May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing to you, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.....Psalms 19 God is Love!~Jesus saves!

What have I learned so far? The texts in Leviticus are actually pretty straightforward. I have to admit that, coming into this inquiry, I was under the impression that many or all of the texts were of the kind that used disputed terms such as 'arsenokoites', where the understanding was complex. I've learned that a number of the texts are quite explicit and the translation of the words is not controversial. As I noted, we are literally halfway through the investigation: 2.5 texts into the 5 we started out to look at. I've learned things. I'm hoping my interlocutors have too.

If someone's perspective is 'I already know, based on my own personal reading of the English translations', then they may as well not participate in this thread. What are they going to learn? "Don't bother me with Hebrew and Greek, I know what I think" is not a good basis for understanding.

Interesting!

Yes a great article. I just saw a video that scuba had posted about a year ago. Even though I agree with most of it I had my problem with the very end. As far as Easter is concerned, it doesn't really bother me if we did take it from pagan origins, its how we apply it to what we believe today!!

great article! It always amazes me how some people get so paranoid about holidays or other celebratory days, merely because of the name.

Psalm 27:1 is one of my favorites (actually the whole chapter) The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

I love Isa. 41:10!

How about... That perfect love casts out fear? Fear is the opposite of love.

"In Christ" we are complete, that is, we collectively stand before the law "in Christ" without blemish. This is righteousness by faith. At the 2nd coming we are actually made righteous, i.e., we are instantaneously recreated in God's image after His likeness. Then we receive what is already true of our "new creation" in Christ Jesus. From God's point of view you are perfect "in Christ". That work is done. From your point of view you haven't received your glorified body. What can I say?