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If we never had more than we could handle there would never be a reason to pray. If I remember correctly, the Bible promises a way of escape (1 Cor 10:13). What form that takes is up to Him. We could prepare for surprises

While mentioned in other threads, this article from Ministry Magazine deserves to be re-emphasized - https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/2013/04/phoebe-was-she-an-early-church-leader

Listening to all the fuss about Hillary's emails I had a vague recollection about Bush and emails. I googled it and wow! From Wikipedia: ......Over 5 million emails may have been lost.[2][3]Greg Palast claims to have come up with 500 of the Karl Rove emails, leading to damaging allegations.[4] In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been lost.[5] The administration officials had been using a private Internet domain, called gwb43.com, owned by and hosted on an email server run by the Republican National Committee,[6] for various communications of unknown content or purpose. White House officials were using nongovernmental accounts specifically to avoid creating a record of the communications."[13] The Republican National Committee claims to have erased the emails, supposedly making them unavailable for Congressional investigators.[1 White House deputy Jennifer Farley told Jack Abramoff not to use the official White House system "because it might actually limit what they can do to help us, especially since there could be lawsuits, etc."[7] Abramoff responded, "Dammit. It was sent to Susan on her RNC pager and was not supposed to go into the WH system."[19]

Why keep using phrases that accuse others of being slow or stupid? In your opinion, others who do not agree with you, just don't get it, or are wasting your time, or are ignorant (of Scripture, of history, of ancient customs). I still DO NOT AGREE with you Ron. But I will not be discouraged by your dismissive or disrespectful language. You force me to look deeper into the foundations of my beliefs, but that is a good thing. What I have found does NOT convince me that you have the correct understanding.

I was always taught that it was He'd give us no more than we could handle. It wasn't until 5 or 10 years ago that I'd realized I'd been taught incorrectly. There's always a way He will give us to get through any difficulty (and that's pretty cool). But I'm gonna beg to differ, Gail. There's a whole lot of other stuff we can pray for--even if there's nothing that we can't handle at the moment.

Aubrey, seems like you got all of them!

Color me dense, but I still don't see the logic or symbolism of hch's logic. He may be embarrassed if things don't turn out as he predicts. I will be absolutely flummoxed and bewildered if they do. Only 2 months until we find out! One thing I do agree with hch on - the return of Jesus to repossess this planet is sooner than most of us think. Kinda like looking at Jesus in the passenger side rear view mirror of your car - the one that says "Objects are closer than they appear".

The very fact that Origen is used as a reference of proof as well as the Septuagint should be warning flags. As well as the fact that... well God plainly said... Don't do it.

Spectrum article by Bill Johnsson - http://conversation.spectrummagazine.org/t/the-one-project-why-im-mad/11545

Signs of the Times Newsleter Is this email not displaying correctly? View it in your browser. September 2016 Signs of the Times Email Newsletter See FREE book offer at the end of the newsletter!!! The Signs of the Times newsletter is a collection of stories and quotes from past issues ofSigns and These Times. *************************** It is paradoxical, perhaps, that the most poignant and rewarding stories of man’s love for man come out of wartime experiences. Amid the killing, maiming, and hatred there always seems to arise an experience of love, despite the fact that many take the attitude of Cain, the first man to kill another, who asked, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” Even so, there are some who so practice the Golden Rule that they can say, “Yes, I am my brother’s keeper.” Such a man was Desmond Doss. One day during the furious fighting on Okinawa in World War II, Doss stood beside a 77th Infantry Division lieutenant who was saying to his platoon, “Men, Doss is going to say a prayer before we go back on the lines.” Doss, a shy-looking young medical aid man, stepped forward, removed his helmet, and in a soft Virginia drawl asked God’s protection on the platoon. Nobody laughed. Nobody questioned the act. Instead, every man present breathed a thankful sigh. “The Preacher” was going along! And having “the Preacher” around when things got hot was mighty comforting. Amazingly, the platoon came through that action without a single casualty. In a matter of minutes, word of the battlefield miracle flashed to the battalion commander and on to regimental and division levels. Hard-bitten colonels and generals pursed their lips in wonderment. Who was this praying medic, anyway? “The Preacher” was listed in Army records as a private first class who hailed from Lynchburg, Virginia. He had a 1-A-O classification, which meant he was a conscientious objector who would serve in combat, but who would not do combat. His buddies gave him the clerical tag because he was about the oddest soldier they’d met; he didn’t smoke and drink, never played cards, didn’t curse, and was all the time leafing through a small Bible he carried in his jacket pocket. And, of course, he never carried a gun. That, in the opinion of the infantrymen, was not only odd—it was downright foolhardy! But their opinion changed when they saw “the Preacher” go into action. In his year and three months of Pacific combat, the mild-mannered medic performed so many feats of single-handed heroism that his name became a symbol for gallantry throughout the 77thDivision. The most amazing feat of all occurred on April 29, 1945. It was Saturday. Doss, a Seventh-day Adventist, had been given permission to spend Saturdays in private worship. He had done so at Guam, Leyte, and Okinawa—until this Saturday when his company was ordered to assault a juggernaut escarpment ranging from seventy-five feet to four hundred feet high. There would be heavy casualties, and the company commander, looking round found only one medical aid man available for action. “How about it, Doss? Men die on Saturday, too.” “It’s all right with me, sir. Only—“ “Only what, Doss?” “May I have a few more minutes with my Bible?” The assault was delayed while Doss retired to a foxhole to pray. He prayed for ten minutes. Then he strapped on his medical equipment and climbed up the cliff with his buddies. “As our troops gained the summit,” the Army record reads, “a heavy concentration of artillery, mortar and machine-gun fire crashed into them inflicting approximately seventy-five casualties and driving the others back.” The survivors climbed back down the cliff, regrouped at the bottom, and counted heads. Doss was among the missing. Then somebody shouted and pointed to the escarpment. There, high above them, stood “the Preacher.” He was waving frantically for a rope with which to lower the wounded. All about him were angry bursts of mortars and blasts of artillery. The company commander ordered him down. Doss refused, again signaling for the rope. There was nothing to do but help him. Meanwhile, the enemy drew closer on the other side of the narrow summit. They started tossing grenades at Doss as he dashed here and there, tying tourniquets and giving plasma. The enemy made several attempts to overrun the top of the ridge, but they were stopped by grenade barrages from Doss’s buddies, who had climbed back up to a ledge just under the escarpment crest. For three sweating, concussion-rocking hours the slender medic tugged and hauled wounded men to the edge of the escarpment and lowered them—one by one—down the face of the cliff to friendly hands. Finally, the last man was lowered, and Doss slipped wearily down himself. There was something akin to reverence in the way his officers and buddies greeted him. Five months later, the young medic stood on the lawn of the White House while President Truman placed the blue-ribboned Congressional Medal of Honor around his neck. Cameras clicked and reporters swarmed about him. Here was a story with a brand-new twist. For the first time in United States history, the nation had bestowed its highest military decoration on a conscientious objector. Doss did not like the term “conscientious objector.” He much preferred “conscientious cooperator.” And who can deny that the latter term was the most apt?—By Cecil Coffey,These Times, May 1966. NEWS ALERT: This fall, 2016, Hollywood is releasing a movie about Desmond Doss. Many people will be talking about this heroic man. Your Adventist Book Center has two great resources that will enrich you: Book (available early September): Desmond Doss: Conscientious Objector Available also as an eBook. DVD: The Conscientious Objector Get copies of both the book and the DVD to share with your friends. Order online, or call your Adventist Book Center—1-800-765-6955. Quote: “Always dream and shoot higher than you know you can do. Don’t bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”—By William Faulkner, These Times, January 1965. *************************** Don't miss the October 2016 issue of Signs of the Times: To order Signs, call: 1-800-765-6955 or CLICK HERE to order online. *************************** The Bureau of Standards in Washington conducted some experiments and published some conclusions about fog. They tell us that in a dense fog, covering seven city blocks one hundred feet deep, there is something less than one glass of water. That small amount of water is divided into some sixty thousand million tiny drops. Almost invisible, of course, and yet when these minute particles settle down over the city, they can speedily blot out such vast realities as buildings, the sky, and even the sun itself. So is it in a time like this. We, all of us, face very difficult and trying problems. No one denies that, but the trouble is we let things which in the long run are of lesser value cloud our vision and cause us to lose sight of the things of greater value. We need to remember with Lowell: “Beyond the dim unknown standeth God within the shadows Keeping watch above His own.”—By Charles F. Banning, These Times, April 1960. Quote: “It’s better to wander in prayer than to wander from prayer.”—By Bishop Wilson, Signs of the Times, February 6, 1923. *************************** NEW from Pacific Press—The Reformation and the Remnant by Nicholas P. Miller. In The Reformation and the Remnant, author Nicholas Miller examines crucial issues and questions facing the Adventist Church today through the lenses provided by the thoughts and ideas of various Protestant reformers. Miller discusses such topics as biblical authority and inspiration, the great controversy theme, religious liberty and public morality, last day events and Sunday laws, and righteousness by faith and perfection, as he reveals why the ideas that shaped the Christian church still matter. CLICK HERE to read the first chapter of this book online free. CLICK HERE to order online or call your local Adventist Book Center—1-800-765-6955. *************************** William, the water does not taste right,” said a good housewife to her husband one morning when he had just brought a bucket of fresh water from the spring. “There must be something wrong,” she continued; “go down into the cellar, and see if there is anything in the spring.” This was almost a half century ago (written in 1929), before the public waterworks had come to their town. Every one depended upon his own well or water supply of some kind. Every one caught rain water and kept it in the old-fashioned rain barrel or cistern; but for drinking there had to be other sources. This family depended upon a spring of fine, cold, clear, sparkling water that gushed freely from the sandy bed beneath their cellar floor. It had been carefully enclosed with slabs of stone and a wooden door placed over the top to keep the water from becoming contaminated. There was an overflow pipe that led to a mossy wooden tub near the kitchen door, and from the tub the water overflowed, and ran lazily down to the mill pond near the barn. Heeding his wife’s bidding, William hastened to the cellar to investigate. It was only an illusion, he felt sure, but he would go to satisfy her. Raising the wooden cover, he saw a white object floating on the surface of the clear, sparkling spring. With a net he dipped it up, and found it to be a rat that had in some way got into the spring, and from all appearances had been a long time dead, so long that it was all puffed up and the hair had entirely disappeared. Without any ceremony, the rodent was hurriedly buried in the barnyard. Forty-five years came and went after that. The city waterworks came, and it was no longer necessary for William and his wife to use the water of the spring. But it was still there in the basement flowing copiously and gurgling out into the moss-covered tub by the kitchen door, and on into the mill pond. On hot summer days people came from far and near with their pails and jugs, and carried away the cool, refreshing water from the spring. “That is wonderful water, William,” they said. “You can’t find water like that often. Many thanks, William.” “Just help yourself,” said William; “drink all you like, and take all you want.” But never a drop did William drink. If he were choking, he would not touch it, for he still saw the rat of forty-five years before. The water is pure and fresh, but there is prejudice in William’s heart, and prejudice doesn’t allow a man to reason, to be sensible. And William was the loser. “Prejudice never quite dies. Hit it in the head with an ax, strangle it, drown it, hang it, burn it, poison it, do what you will with it, and when it ought to be properly dead by all rules of the game, it bobs up again to haunt one. Prejudice never forgets and never forgives. Argument does not move it or proof convince; and there it is tattooed into the brain forever.”—By Charles L. Paddock, Signs of the Times, February 5, 1929. Quote: “Giving to the Lord is transporting goods to a higher floor.”—By Charles, G. Bellah,Signs of the Times, March 4, 1930. *************************** Place this in your church bulletin or newsletter: Want to connect with your neighbor? Maybe a loved one far away? Each monthly issue of Signs of the Times® offers a colorful and interesting presentation of the full gospel message. The result is changed lives! Send a subscription today. Order from your Adventist Book Center. To order call: 1-800-765-6955 or online at: http://www.adventistbookcenter.com/signs-of-the-times-magazine-yearly-us-subscription.html *************************** Several years ago I took my little boy with me on a weekend business trip. The first evening we rented a motel and lay down to sleep, he in his bed, I in mine. Fifteen minutes went by, and I was almost asleep, when I felt a nudge on my shoulder. I turned over, and there was my son, crying softly in the dark. “What’s the matter, Bud?” I asked. “I’m scared,” he whimpered. “But Daddy’s right here.” “I know, but it’s dark, and I’m scared.” “Why don’t you get in bed with me?” I suggested. I threw back my covers and let him crawl between the sheets. He snuggled up close to me, and in five minutes he was sound asleep. All he needed was a little comfort and love. He felt secure because Daddy was near. God is like that!—By Marvin Moore, These Times, May 1978. Quote: “the Bible is the only book for thinkers, readers, scholars, speakers, men, women, and children; if we can have only one book, oh save us that.”—By Joseph H. Choate, Signs of the Times, February 1, 1938. *************************** NEW eBooks added each month at: www.AdventisteBooks.Com *************************** Once upon a time a thoughtful but plain and unpretentious man took his boy from their rural home to the halls of a great university. On his return, his neighbors chaffed him about the kind of appearance he had probably made among the sages and savants of the great school. One of them made bold to inquire how he felt in the presence of men who were supposed to know about all that was knowable. In reply he said: “I didn’t try to compare what I know with what they know; but when I compared what I didn’t know with what they didn’t know, there wasn’t enough difference to cause any uneasiness!”—From Liberty Bell, Signs of the Times, April 20, 1915. Quote: “To be a commandment-keeper you must keep all the commandments; to be a commandment breaker you need break only one.”—Unknown, Signs of the Times, March 22, 1877. *************************** Give Lavishly—Live Abundantly The more you give, the more you get— The more you laugh, the less you fret— The more you do unselfishly, The more you live abundantly. The more of everything you share, The more you’ll always have to spare— The more you love, the more you’ll find That life is good and friends are kind. For only what we give away Enriches us from day to day.—By Helen Steiner Rice, These Times, July 1966. *************************** FREE complimentary copy of a fantastic new sharing book—Hope for a Helpless Planetby Chris Holland, Speaker/Director of It Is Written Canada. CLICK HERE and send you mailing address before September 15, 2016. Offer good in the US and Canada. Here is a wonderful quote from the book: “Whatever your situation may be, Jesus wants to encourage you—He wants to give you hope. Are you facing an illness? Jesus says, ‘Don’t let your heart be troubled.’ Are you facing marital challenges? Jesus wants to give you assurance. Are you facing a problem in the work place? Jesus reaches out to encourage you. Whatever you face today, on this hopeless and helpless planet Jesus gives you hope.”.—By Chris Holland. *************************** Compiled by Dale Galusha. Please pass this newsletter on to others.

KEVIN H well that was a neat story and neat experience dgrimm60

Gay said below: A more accurate way of stating it would be to say: "Mental illness may be effectively treated by cognitive, behavioral or pharmaceutical treatment plans, depending upon the specific illness." In actual fact, some mental illnesses consist of a family. One form may be best treated in one manner, while another form may be best treated in another manner. As an example, There are several forms of a depressive illness, all of which may be called "depression" by a layperson. One form may be best treated by cognitive therapy alone and not require medication. Another form may be best treated by medication. Regardless, a decision may be made to use more than one form of treatment. As another example, there is a family of eleven (11) sleep disorders that are all classified as a mental illness. However, these classifications are often broken down into sub-classifications that increase the number. DSM 780.59 is "Breathing-Related Sleep Disorder. " Included in its sub-classification are Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA) and Central Sleep Apnea (CSA). The most effective treatment for OSA may be surgery, but not always. The DSM lists some fifteen (15) different forms of mental illness related to the use of alcohol. But, all of these are sub-catagories of a larger classification of eleven (11) forms of mental illness. For some, medication may be required. In other cases, the most effective treatment may be for the individual to quit taking an over-the-counter antihistamine or to identify the source of carbon monoxide/carbon dioxide that the individual is exposed to. Yes, it is true that a specific mental illness in a person may require more than one form of treatment. Therefore, I cannot say that the statement that Gay made is wrong. I simply prefer saying in in another way.

Copied from another thread.. Lie #1: God doesn’t give you more than you can handle. This statement echoes across the Christian landscape. Intended to comfort the afflicted, it actually lays an ugly guilt trip on the person suffering. To say that mental illness is something that “God gave you” implies that God wants you to suffer. “Mental illness is part of God’s will, and you are supposed to be strong enough to handle it.” FALSE! Lie #2: Daily prayer and bible reading alone cures mental illness. According to a recent LifeWay poll, nearly half of Evangelical Christians between the ages of 18-30 believe that prayer and bible study alone can cure mental illness. This belief is in direct opposition to medical research that confirms that many types of mental illness are best treated by a combination of cognitive, behavioral and pharmaceutical treatment plans supervised by mental health professionals. To say that mental illness can be cured by spiritual practices alone discourages Christians from getting the mental healthcare they need to treat and recover from mental illness.“God cannot use scientific advances to heal the human body.” FALSE! Lie #3: Depression is a sin, a curse, or demon possession. It’s true that we do not yet fully understand all of the environmental and biological causes of mental illness. Yet to state that mental illness is only caused by things in the “spiritual realm” denies what we know to be true: mental illness is a brain disease. While there are certainly spiritual aspects to both the cause and the treatment of mental illness, mental illness is not simply a spiritual disease, curse or demon possession. To talk of a person’s mental illness as a result of a sin, curse, or demon possession is to further stigmatize, shame, and isolate the person. “Mental illness is the result of a sin, curse or demon possession.” FALSE! Lie #4: If you loved Jesus more you would be happier. This is a Christian twist on the “just try harder” lecture. If only you just loved Jesus more. If only you just believed more. If only you just let Jesus all the way into your heart, then you would be happier. This belief denies the reality of clinical depression that is not a matter of simply trying harder. Jesus loves all people, including people who have mental illness. Loving Jesus more is something we strive for as Christians, but not because it will make us happier. “Mental illness is a result of not loving Jesus enough.” FALSE! Lie #5: You can’t be a Christian if you have a mental illness. This is an old one, something that saints in the church have struggled with for centuries. We think that perhaps we are not deserving of God’s love because we have a mental illness. We do not know how God could accept us or love us because we are not perfect. So we think that a person with mental illness cannot be a Christian, cannot be a leader in the church, cannot be an ordained minister. Ministers, especially, are not supposed to have mental illness. But the truth is that Christians are humans, just as sick, broken, and in need of healing and wholeness as everyone else. As a person with mental illness, being a Christian can be a way to find compassion, support and love from a community of faith.“True Christians are immune from mental illness.” FALSE!