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Joe and I have spent some time on this topic via PMs, so I'm not going to say anything new to him. "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew." (vs 1-2) ... "Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Well - He DID reject some of them. He gave them a "bill of divorcement". The LORD divorced the 10 Northern tribes (called Israel at the time). They were lost to history, and they lost their identity. That doesn't mean some descendants won't be "grafted in".

This Sabbath we are having a guest speaker, he has requested that that Sabbath be designated to be prayer and fasting day. Because he is a guest speaker, our hospitality ladies have organized a potluck. I am not kidding.

That is absolutely true. So why condemn one and give the other a pass? I wasn't the one that brought up Clinton's whine for decades. I am not defending Trump,if I had my choice I would have them both disappear. I am not trying to make Trump this persecuted saint to justify voting for him if in fact I do. For every issue I have with one I have a similar with the other. With one exception,Clinton was a experienced politician when she claimed not to know the rules and can't remember 3 dozen times. As Secretary of State that is scary if true and just as bad if a lie. I don't need to read the NYT spin on why it is really okay. It isn't the hypocrisy of either candidate that I find hard to take,it is the hypocrisy of supporters. I recently had to remove something from my facebook page that disturbed a lot of people. One that is quick to condemn any he thinks is judging another felt qualified to label all that vote for Trump are really closet bullies.The objections was not only from Trump supporters. I see those that I believe are bullies here that support Clinton. They do it by arrogance and patronizing those they consider less bright than they are as obviously if you were on their level you would agree with them. For those willing to acknowledge the character of both candidates it is a tough election. Condemning Trump for blaming others is the height of hypocrisy if giving Clinton a pass after decades without a word of complaint. I can't recall one controversy she has been involved in that she has taken full responsibility without the "But they did" If I give Hillary Clinton a pass,then it would stand to reason Trump gets a pass for same behavior. Should he release his tax file? Of course. Why isn't he? I don't know but possibly playing the same game Obama did with his birth certificate. Obama could have settled that very quickly but chose not to. Should he be condemned for paying as little tax as possible? How many on here don't do that same thing on a much smaller level. Deducting charitable deductions etc. We did not buy our small farm as a tax write off but I can assure I used every legitimate deduction I could. I would have a hard time believing the sainted Hillary didn't do same.

Hypocrisy: Thy name is politics.

The email issue of HC has become the Holy Grail of the 'dislikers'.....really...is that the reason she shouldn't be pres? Concrete plans, layed out for all to see, like or dislike, open about taxes, has vast amounts of experience, etc, etc all of which seems to be ignored. On the opposite side....no plans, hide tax results, no experience, displays his true thoughts about women with such remarks as 'she has no stamina, can't stands up to long discussions', along with other remarks about the abilities of women, always blaming someone, 'poor me the media is picking on me', etc, etc. Reminds me of the term used in the music industry when describing music artists with only one hit, never more to be heard from, 'One Hit wonders'! Perfectly describes the email issue!!

We'll know whether or not it is "present truth" soon enough - 3 months.

In a world where sinful self will reigned in human hearts unless God was allowed to intervene, the cutting of the flesh was a symbol of the self denial that occurred in anyone who had faith towards God and stepped away from service to sin to serving the will of God. It was a mark of the identity of a people with a divine purpose walking in an eternal covenant relationship with God. Entering into this blood covenant with God one circumcised their male babies. Adult males who wished to enter this covenant relationship would also allow this service to be performed. No one circumcised themselves it was performed on them. This makes me think of baptism which now both male and female participate in, and which you cannot do to yourself, and it is accompanied by vows of commitment and involved consecration to God's will. The children could grow up knowing their parents obeyed the Lord and set them apart to do God's will. Jesus knew he was going to be born into the human family and he set up this service to be in perpetual obedience knowing he would be one of those babies so consecrated at birth to fulfill the will of God. The circumcision that pointed to the covenant offered by Christ is fulfilled by Christ. The shedding of blood was a symbol of the blood of Christ by which the covenant was ratified. We now enter this covenant at Christ's invitation by baptism, and then by a daily baptism we die to our self will and by the power of God do God's will. Christ fulfills the conditions for us to enter into this covenant in us. Jesus marked the end of everything in the Jewish economy that pointed to him. He was the fulfillment of the temple services and the feasts, all the blood sacrifices and the circumcision. His blood was the blood that established the covenant for eternity no more blood needed to be shed. Jesus self denial was perfect and complete, His self control stronger that death, His sacrifice was sinless and able to pay the price to redeem the race and bring an end to all sin in the universe forever. In the Jewish religious services all other blood shed was animal blood. The blood of the circumcision was human blood showing dedication of humanity to God. The Sabbath was given before man sinned. Jesus rested from the labor of creation with Adam and Eve and entered into a whole relationship with them on the Sabbath. And then Jesus rested on the Sabbath after finishing the work of redeeming the human race. The Sabbath observance is a spiritual experience possible only by the redeeming power of Jesus in our hearts. It is an experience of a blessing in our relationship with God, sign of God being our creator and redeemer. The one who created us also is the one who redeems us from the power of selfishness, and sanctifies us day by day. The Sabbath observance had been reduced to a set of rules to follow by which you could force God to bless you. And circumcision was also one of the rules you followed to secure God's blessings. They were in fear of losing God's blessings but also in growing resentment towards Christ who was free of fear and full of power to do miraculous things. Jesus asked them to look beyond the external and they were confounded.

The Olive Tree represents "Israel". Jeremiah 11:16 "The LORD called your name, Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are broken." Sounds like ALL the branches are broken off - not just the 10 tribes. Paul says believing Gentiles are "grafted" into the Tree. (Right now - the largest number of persons "grafted" onto that Tree - are believing Gentiles!!) He also says "native branches" can be grafted in "again" - IF they do not continue in unbelief. Romans 11:23 [native branches] "And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again." But that would mean there are DNA descendants of Abraham/Jacob who are NOT attached to THAT Olive Tree (Israel). So - at this moment - if they do not believe in Christ, and do not draw nourishment from that holy "root" - THEN they are NOT Israelites (at least in the eyes of Heaven). ONLY "those of faith are sons of Abraham" (Gal 3:7). Those who do NOT believe in Jesus are NOT "of faith". They ARE NOT "sons of Abraham" (in the sight of Heaven). Yes - they ARE still "loved" on account of the patriarchs. Yes - God is still "calling" them. No - we should NOT persecute them!! UNBELIEVERS are "broken off" the Tree. BELIEVERS are "grafted" on to the Tree. The TREE remains - and the holy root remains. Jesus IS "the root". "if the root is holy, so are the branches" (Rom 11:16) The Tree IS ISRAEL. "all Israel will be saved" (Romans 11:26) = The TREE will be saved (with everyone that is attached to it).

If you are in saying that Jews are no longer God's chosen people, I disagree. There would be no Christians if there weren't Jews beforehand. Jesus was a Jew. The Abrahamic covenant in Genesis 15 was unconditional. God's covenant with David was unconditional. Ajew (jesus) will one day rule the world (indeed - the universe). The 144,000 are all Israelites - 12,000 from each tribe. I point you to Romans 11 where Paul warns new Christians against disregarding Judaism We are NOT to be proud or arrogant thinking that we are "superior" to the Jews. "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew." (vs 1-2) ... "Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious." (vs 11) ... "If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." ... As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Replacement theology (i.e., that Christians have replaced Jews as God's chosen people) is a satanic lie that has been used by Romans, Christians, Muslims, and Nazis to make Jews the longest and most universally hated people in history. If the Jews have been rejected by God, why are they still the supreme target of satan's wrath? Rather than God replacing the Jews with Christians as the chosen people, God has given Christians the privilege of being included with the Jews as God's Chosen people.