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See: http://spectrummagazine.org/article/2017/01/18/reinder-bruinsma-“-long-shepherd-same-it-doesn’t-matter-sheep-are-not-clones Dr. Reinder Bruissma is a retired denominational executive who speaks his mind. He is typically challenging as he speaks to current issues as he sees them. Of interest in this article is mention of books that he has written and is writing.

That's how you look at it, yes. You shouldn't forget that our issue is "Does God have an ACTIVE participation in the final reward of the wicked?". APL offered the death of Christ as proof for his NO answer. I have shown the verse where Christ Himself said the Father forsook Him. And you agreed it is an ACTIVE act, BUT... and that's the big but. The active act of God in FORSAKING His Son is to you passive wrath. However, APL and I are not into the issue of passive or active wrath. The issue is God's active participation, NOT on whether that ACTIVE participation is active or passive wrath . And God had an active participation by FORSAKING His only begotten Son. Hence, APL's proof that God did not have ACTIVE participation, instead of proving his contention, proved the veracity of my position.

Samie, to forsake is an action, that is correct. However, we look at the "act" of "forsaking" as "passive wrath," synonymous with "hiding of face," "giving over," etc. This is not God moving toward Christ with power that would cause Him to die, but moving away from Him, allowing Him to suffer the terrible psychological and emotional burden of the weight of guilt upon His soul with no hope of God's grace--the experience that the finally impenitent will suffer. Continue your arguing. You have much time on your hands.

wonderful poem passed around on facebook Rosetta Stone Sometimes I feel like I need to go get me that Rosetta Stone, so I can learn to speak the language of the people who walk by, and pass me from my perch on the street Them with homes, and me Home-LESS, (clearly always less). These people who rush past me all day long, on their way to a job a family a warm meal a hot bath a dry bed, on their way to a life filled with communication, with connection. I don’t ask for anything, except sometimes the time, but I call out all the same, trying to speak their language. It’s lonely out here. I just want to hear their voice. I just want to be heard. Hello! I say, as people rush by in tides, but they just avert their eyes, no response, and I know I KNOW, that they hear, and they can’t just be ignoring me, can’t ALL just be ignoring me! So I figure It must just be that we are speaking a different language. If I could get me that Rosetta Stone, maybe I could learn to speak their language, this language they seem to know so well, the only language they seem to know when confronted with a home LESS person: The language of Silence. Maybe if I could just learn this silence then we could communicate Maybe then they would hear Maybe then they would remember that I am just like them just without a home but not LESS. But I don’t know their language, and they don’t seem to know how to speak the only language that I know. So we continue on, me talking, them walking by, blocked by translation. Sometimes I think maybe it’s not me that needs that Rosetta Stone, maybe just maybe, it’s them. But I don’t know… What do you think? Is it possible? Do you think a person can be taught to speak Human?