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the day needs to come when ordination happens because of accomplishments not because they have a Masters and a Penis.

some just want more of Jesus in every area of their lives, His wisdom, His strength, His faith, His trust in His Father... His love for those around them.....

and you know this, how? Mental telepathy with Gregory? I've never been to a TOP meeting. I have, however, read the book. The article mentioned in the OP does, in fact, give the reader an idea of some TOP's building blocks. The author does use some very mild satire, but honestly....do the issues of box lunches or men's ties really warrant moral outrage and the label of "ridicule"? C'mon now. That's just not reasonable. I've also seen absolutely NO condemnation of TOP critics by TOP supporters. The condemnation has been from the critics....and it's their right to condemn if that's how they see things. But no one has been forcing anyone to accept TOP or be involved in it. Obviously, TOP is not for everyone. It wasn't supposed to be, and nobody said it was.

I opt to say, the fact that the two passages refer to Temple services SIGNIFIES that temple rebuilding will be put in place some time before the setting up of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Again, the words of our Savior are crystal clear on the fact that the setting up of the abomination of desolation will trigger the great tribulation or time of trouble at which point in time the dead will rise from their graves and deliverance of God's people will occur. If this is not second coming, when was this? Surely, this could not have occurred AD 70. KJV Daniel 12: 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

It has been proclaimed that the purpose of the OP's article is to portray the critics of TOP as "shallow crackpots." I find the term amusing. Does that mean there's going to be a new forum comprised of "Crackpots, United"? Maybe there will be a new Pathfinder honor on the art of "Crackpotting"... Maybe a new book will come out on "How to be a Crackpot in Today's Church"... Or, for those whose friends and families have disowned them, there can be a "Crackpots Anonymous" support group. I generally like "crackpots".... they give flavor and color to the world of mediocracy, dullness, and routine. Wait a minute! It's the TOP people who are "outside the box." Maybe *they* are really the crackpots... Reminds me of the Japanese art of kintsukuroi. Cracked pots aren't thrown away as being useless garbage. They are mended with gold, because even though the crackpot is broken, its creator took great care and patience in its creation. But the cracked pots became more beautiful for having been broken. But I digress...

Praise the Lord that evil was defeated!!

Love replaces 'rules', that is the type of 'relationship' wanted for humans by God, my belief. 'Rule compliance' may give a person directions for learning about what is needed for a relationship of love but can't sustain it, my belief.

What!Admins have a sense of humor !!!! (..or is it sarcasm.....)

God, angels, and humans all share one characteristic - they all have a free will. In my opinion, any being with a free will "could" sin. Jesus was not a robot - He "could" sin. He did not; as is proven by His resurrection. Just because God "knew" Jesus would succeed does not mean He "forced" Jesus to succeed.

Actually it is the opponents of female ordination who have helped to open the door for the denomination to have women as pastors. The Biblical teaching on this issue is focused on the role that women should have in spiritual nurture. But, the Bible does not have a central focus on ordination. Because the opponents have diverted people from considering that role, and have focused on ordination, the door has been opened for women to become pastors, as long as they are not ordained. As a side point, I have long stated that in the future, when SDA historians look back to these times they will likely say that President Ted did more to bring women into pastoral ministry and to eventually lead to their ordination than probably any other person could have done. It just may be that in the future, women will be thankful that President Ted was elected GC President.

John 18:37-38 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. 38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all. anagram anagram [Gr., = something read backward], rearrangement of the letters of a word or words to make another word or other words. A famous Latin anagram was an answer made out of a question asked by Pilate. The question was Quid est veritas? [What is truth?], and the answer Est vir qui adest [it is the man who is here]. http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/entertainment/anagram.html Pilates question of "what is truth?" is interesting. Jesus said "I am the truth." Notice the anagram to Pilates question. The "Truth" was standing right before him and he did not recognize it.

all I can say is that you certainly view the article differently than I do... so be it.

Not unless that is the way you want to read it,no ridicule at all. If I were not a SDA and searching, finding out more of the serious and "satire" descriptions of SDA here it would have me running for the hills. Hypocritical, petty in their beliefs,judgmental, small minded,if you don't dress right you are not really welcome,and don't forget the poor,regardless pull yourself up by your bootstraps and you will be fine. Just what is there that is appealing or attractive about being SDA to someone that is unfamiliar with what we believe? That is not satire or ridicule,it has been said many times here. If I were interested in what TOPS claims to offer why would I believe or want to be part of this claim it draws you closer to Jesus? Then witness the sole purpose of a topic created to ridicule,not to promote the benefits and merits of what TOP offers? In addition to the numerous times when posts are made at the slightest opportunity doing the same. When we were young and asked our dad about end time events he always told us not to be so concerned about those on the outside but those sitting in the pews with you. More and more I appreciate his common sense and knowledge. I had a pastor/teacher,terrific guy, even had a fantastic sense of humor. I don't recall what was taking place at the time but we asked him how to tell the true from the untrue if the untrue looked so attractive. As time marched on he said we would have many new and improved. One simple rule. What does the new and and improved Christianity produce in it's follower's?

On the days that I am incapacitated due to a migraine and am home from work, I am able to do some things on a limited basis. Today I am reading, Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes, by Kenneth Bailey. It is a fascinating book written by an expert on Middle Eastern culture and has really deepened my admiration for our Saviour, Jesus. Beginning the chapter on the parable of the rich fool, the author affirms what Adventists traditionally believe concerning the nature of a soul:

On the next page, Bailey in a footnote clarifies the meaning of the Greek, psychē. He states that in this parable (Lk. 12:13-21), psychē is used to translate the Hebrew, nepeš, which is the entire person, body and spirit.

In an earlier post, in responding to Tom Wetmore, Green said in the quote below: Green, we here in CA have no problem with you forcefully telling another that they are wrong. But, as has been explained to you earlier, we have strong objections to you suggesting in any way that another person lied. To do so is to speak to motive. To do so is to suggest that the other person intended to deceive. That judgement of another's motive is well beyond any power and/or authority that you have been given. Please refrain from doing such.

I do not foresee anything that would drive me away from God's remnant church. I was sharing with a fruend in a 12-Step group that I am an Aventist. He shared that a friend of his visitted the Adventist church and liked it. The next week was potluck and she was asked to bring a vegetarian plate so she did. However at potluck one of the members talked down to her saying she wouldn't eat the dish because it had cheese. So she left and never went back. i confessed to my friend that sounded like something that could happen because there is a small minority of self-rigteous folks in every church. Before I could finish the story, my friend agreed and commented that self-righteous folks are not just limmited to the Adventist churches. I went on to tell him of a Mexican family that visitted a church in Minnesota where I attended college. When they brought chicken to potluck, our pastor sat at their table and ate their chicken with them. The self-righteous folks were ready to hang the pastor for hearosy.

**off topic** It's a shame people feel the need to condemn others on the type of humor that amuses them. Having worked weekends and nights in the Emergency Room of a medical center, my sense of humor might be warped in the view of some. (Anyone who has worked in that area for such a length of time and says their humor can't be seen as being sometimes "twisted" probably isn't telling the whole truth.) I've seen some pretty horrifying things. It's only through the use of "dark humor" that people are able to manage. The "GomerBlog" is a rich source of humor for medical professionals, that would most likely be seen as insulting and offensive by those who haven't been in the saddle. **back to topic**

You could check this comment on page 4 of the pdf file. I am not sure why she would have written "Holy Spirit, third person of the Godhead" if she did not believe in the Holy Spirt. http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/The-Trinity.pdf