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NOTE: In my comments, I am considering the nature of the members of the Godhead, prior to the incarnation of Christ. I am not considering either the nature of Christ at the incarnation, nor am I considering the nature of Christ after his assent to heaven following his death. In other threads of this forum, the Trinity has been discussed. A major aspect of this discussion has centered upon each member of the Godhead being called a person--E.G. such statements as: The three persons of the Godhead. In these discussions some have raised the point that they can not conceive of God in human form as they consider such discussions to center on the human form. In my understanding of the theology behind the discussion of the Trinity, no commonly accepted form of this doctrine posits that the members of the Godhead exist in human form. Further the common understanding would be a denial that the persons of the Godhead exist in human form. From this perspective, a better way of stating this would be to state that the members of the Godhead are personal beings. This statement does not define what that personal being is and properly understood it prevents us from attributing any specific form to God. From this viewpoint, God has revealed just about nothing as to the nature and type of the being that God is. Objectors to this understanding may cite Genesis 1:26 & 27 as opposing the view that I have stated. But, an in-depth study of the Hebrew behind those two verses is thought by others to suggest that the likeness between God and humans lay in aspects other than a mirror physical image.

I think it is funny and the country is base on religious freedom. Both statutes should come down. It is by the way you live and not by a statute! Blessings!

I copied this post over from the "At the Creation" thread, because it speaks to the separation between the Father and Son - TWO separate beings. One of the best verses to show the separation of mind, between God the Father and Christ the Son, is Matthew 24:36. If God and His son are "one being" - "one substance" - how could one part of a (singular) "being" know something that another part of that same being does NOT know? Matthew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (NIV) In the Gospels, Jesus only "knew" what His Father revealed to Him. And there is no mention that the Holy Spirit also knew. ONLY the Father.

The word translated as "power" is the word for "authority". John 10:18 "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." (NIV) Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." (NKJ) John 17:2 [Christ addressing His Father] "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him." Who GAVE this authority to Christ? Answer: His God and Father John 5:22 "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son." John 14:31 "But that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave Me commandment, so I do." John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak." Still showing TWO separate beings - in my opinion.

I posted this comment because it speaks to "God the Father" and "His Son" being TWO separate divine beings - with TWO separate wills and minds - prior to the incarnation. The question is - WHEN was "the Son" SENT? Was "the Son" sent from Heaven to earth? Or was He simply "sent" into "the world" - in the same sense that Paul was "sent" to the Gentiles - "sent" into the world from Nazareth to carry out His mission. The FIRST divine being - God the Father - beget the SECOND divine being - "the Son". WHEN was "the Son" begotten? Was He begotten only at the time of His birth from Mary, or was He "begotten" long before (before the creation of all things). Did God have a "Son" - in the Heavenly realm - prior to the incarnation? EQUALITY If God the Father "beget" a Son - in His "express image" - that Son would be exactly like - and equal to - His Father in every way (in omnipresence, omniscience, omnipotence - in presence, mind and strength). That Son would be exactly like His Father in character also. In our human world, a Son may grow up to be the equal of His Father. Yet they are TWO separate persons. The only "difference" between God the Father and His Son, was the awareness of each, that one was begotten, and the other beget. The Father had given existence (being) to the Son. The Son therefore deferred to His Father in all things - not because His Father was stronger, but because His Father was FIRST. Satan was created. God's Son was begotten. There's a difference! Satan sought to be equal - in rank, and authority - with Christ. Christ did the opposite - relative to His Father.

On some more personal notes: I appreciate the conversation that we are having here in this forum. Early on I had wondered who he might be. The Roman Catholic church has three (3) levels of clerics, or as they might say, those who receive Holy Orders. These are Bishops, Priests and Deacons. I sometimes wondered if Gustave might be a Deacon. Well, he has explained himself as an Apologist. These are very well trained people within the Catholic Church who defend the Church against attacks and errors in understanding by other people. In addition to being very well trained, they have available to them a wealth of source material to use in responding to people. Frankly, the SDA Church might do well to have such trained people. I appreciate Gustave, in part because I have seen honesty and integrity in him and his posts. No, we do not agree in many areas, probably. We probably will not come to an agreement if everything. But, if we can come to a better, more accurate understanding as to where we each are, we will have accomplished something of value. Just as others may not understand some things well about SDAs, so also we may not understand well some aspects of the Roman Catholic religion that Gustave represents. But, my purpose is not to convert him to Adventism. God converts. God leads in spiritual nurture. God leads all of us, to include both SDAs and Catholics. In the challenges that Gustave has brought to us, he has forced us to better examine the basis for what we believe. That is good.

Hast proved us ?

5 Shocking Facts You Didn't Know About Elvis Presley On August 16, 1977, the King of Rock n' Roll took his last breath. Elvis Presley, just 42 years old, was found unconscious on the bathroom floor of his Memphis mansion, Graceland. Here are five shocking facts you probably didn't know about Elvis Presley... Elvis Had a Twin Brother Who Died at Birth. Elvis Aaron Presley was born on January 8, 1935, just a half-hour after his mother gave birth to his twin brother, Jesse Garon. Sadly, Jesse was stillborn and buried the next day in an unmarked grave. Though Elvis never met Jesse in life, he spoke of his brother frequently. His mother, Gladys, often said Elvis had the energy of two people. He was Just 22 Years Old When He Bought Graceland. The Memphis estate that would be his home throughout the entirety of his career was originally built as a 500-acre farm dedicated to the owner's daughter, Grace. When Elvis acquired the home in 1957 at the young age of 22, he kept the name but made a number of upgrades including a "jungle room" with a working waterfall and a wall of televisions so Elvis could watch multiple broadcasts at once. Today, more than 600,000 fans flock to Graceland each year to tour the King's castle, but almost no one has ever seen his bedroom. President Bill Clinton Was Denied Access to Elvis's Bedroom. Rumor has it that the heavily guarded room where Elvis spent his final hours remains in the exact condition it was in the night he died. Clothes remain in the drawers, sheets on the bed, and nothing touched. It's the holy grail for any Elvis fan, but almost no one has ever walked through the plush double doors. Only Elvis's family and the estate manager have keys to the padlocks, and when President Clinton toured the facility in the 1990s, he was denied access. Rumor has it there's only been one non-Presley to cross the threshold into the King's domain: actor Nicolas Cage. Cage married Elvis's daughter, Lisa Marie, and as the story goes, got a personal tour of the bedroom as his wedding present. Elvis Once Flew To Denver for a Midnight Snack. No stranger to extravagance and a glutton for greasy food, Elvis spared no expense when it came to getting what he wanted—food included. And one night, after waxing nostalgic about a $50 sandwich he once had at a restaurant in Denver, Elvis and his entourage hopped on his private plane to go get one. The trip cost a whopping $16,000. Oh, and the sandwich? A full loaf of Italian bread sliced lengthwise, scooped out and filled with margarine, an entire jar of grape jam, an entire jar of peanut butter, and a pound of bacon, deep-fried. Elvis Never Performed Outside of North America. Despite his immense popularity worldwide, the King never played outside our continent. In fact, despite the fact that 40 percent of his record sales came from outside the US, Elvis's only shows outside our country were a few scattered Canadian performances in 1957. There are several theories as to why, but the most prevailing is that Elvis's longtime controversial manager, Colonel Tom Parker, was actually an illegal immigrant who feared deportation if he left the United States.

Satan tempted Christ to "command that these stones be made bread". Commanding that something be done, and doing it yourself, are two different things. I do not believe that Christ "used that power" - His own divine power - to work any miracles. Christ acted only as the channel for His Father's power. Jesus said, "The Father who dwells in Me, does the works" (John 14:10). This verse says that God the Father - not Christ by any divine power of His own - performed the miracles.

Adam really did have FREE - FREE - FREE choice. I truly wonder about us today - after all the physical and mental degeneration. I do believe the indwelling "spirit of Christ" is STRONGER than our predispositions. It's a matter of learning how to depend upon HIM. Addicts and alcoholics learn to depend upon their "higher power" - realizing they cannot stay clean - of themselves. Even when we are changed, and receive our new "spiritual body", we will STILL depend upon HIS indwelling. That symbiotic relationship is how we will live forever. We were created to be indwelt. I'm NOT into the "perfection" teaching, which says that the 144,000 will be "perfect" and reflect the image of Christ "perfectly" - and no longer sin even by a thought, before Christ appears in glory.

PHKRAUSE she will be missed by family===friends==coworkers==fans dgrimm60

A beautiful voice silenced.

That's a really wide-ranging question, but I will do my best to clarify how I approach Scripture. Some points about me may assist understanding. In no particular order; just as they come to mind: 1. I was born and raised SDA. As such I have a very well developed BS detector. 2. I have a very inquiring/questioning mind. This has been both a blessing and a curse. 3. I have a strong interest in all things religious. 4. My father was ultra-conservative, therefore I have a strong grounding in SDA orthodoxy. 5. I have a minor in Religion from CUC (now Burman) 6. I believe in continuums. As mentioned previously, there are degrees of "trueness." There are also degrees of inspiration. Some things are more inspired than others. Perhaps another way to look at that is that inspiration remains constant but authority or applicability to me varies. 7. I have a unique view of sin/salvation/the world/creation/etc./etc./… I developed it on my own and as far as I know no one else subscribes to it. This may be because I have a) not told anyone what it is because b) it is not fully developed. It is based on Scripture (especially the nature of sin) and science, specifically quantum cosmology. 8. I believe in the Nicene Creed. (ish) 9. When I approach Scripture, I assume it is the inspired word of God. I believe God is communicating with humanity in order to further the relationship. I believe the words of Scripture should be understood literally, just as they are written, unless there is a specific reason to understand it otherwise. I do not believe God speaks in riddles, or that Scripture is allegorical. Literally, it means what it says. 10. I believe in the guidance of the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. 11. This is more complicated than I thought...

Come and see ?

Warning every man ?

My soul thirsteth ⛲

The old paths ?

Harvest is ripe ?

The structure of Revelation is partly evident in the text, but not without complications, which explains why there is little agreement among scholars on the book’s structure. The search for a structure usually begins with the four, numbered, seven-fold visions in the book; the seven churches (2:1 – 3:22), the seven seals (6:1 – 8:1), […] The post The Structure of Revelation (Rev 4) appeared first on Jon Paulien's Blog. View the full article

Faith subdued kingdoms ?

Lovest thou Me? ?

Gustave, If you want to explain WHAT you believe, and give reasons (from Bible only) explaining WHY you believe as you do - that would be great. That's what we're here for. Others can explain why they believe differently, and give reasons why. But don't get off into calling some beliefs "orthodox" (approved) and others not so, as if that could ever be a reason to hold those beliefs. PS: I will not respond to trick questions or unanswerable questions. You know. Can God create something which could ever destroy Himself?

Part of the Jesuit Exreme Oath of induction (source: www.reformation.org): "I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants' heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus." Sounds like persecution to me! I don't know If Jesuits are still required to take this oath; but they definitely were during and immediately after the Reformation. Who do you think oversaw the Inquisition and the Spanish Inquisition?

It does NOT MATTER, whether those groups of Christians (or Jews) followed the teachings as laid down by the church officially approved of Rome. No Christian church has a commission from God to persecute another Christian church. That alone, tells me that Popes were NOT speaking for/as Jesus. Just one example Waldensians: The movement originated in the late twelfth century as the Poor Men of Lyon, a band organized by Peter Waldo, a wealthy merchant who gave away his property around 1173, preaching apostolic poverty as the way to perfection. Waldensian teachings quickly came into conflict with the Catholic Church. By 1215, the Waldensians were declared heretical and subject to intense persecution; the group was nearly annihilated in the 17th century and was confronted with organised and general discrimination in the centuries that followed.

Thou desirest truth ?

Worketh by love

The opening of the book (Rev 1:1-8) states the main themes of the entire book in relatively plain language. The central theme of the book is Jesus Christ (Rev 1:1-2, 5-7) with particular attention to future events (Rev 1:1, 7). The source of the book’s content is a vision that originates with God and was […] The post A Short Summary of the Book of Revelation (Rev 3) appeared first on Jon Paulien's Blog. View the full article

To me, the very fact that Christ accepted worship on several occasions before and after His Resurrection tells me that Jesus was either God, a crazy man, or a megalomaniac. I choose to take the first option.

Greetings Gustave, Rather, it’s important to believe what the Bible teaches about the One God the Father, and His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Kind regards Trevor